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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:The Pythagoreans were essentially mathemagicians. They believed that numbers were the fundamental basis of all reality and that studying mathematics would reveal the true nature of the universe. TIME-LIFE BIG BOOK OF THE WORLDS LEAST SUCCESSFUL RELIGIONS
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May 26, 2018 00:55
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:The Pythagoreans were essentially mathemagicians. They believed that numbers were the fundamental basis of all reality and that studying mathematics would reveal the true nature of the universe. Turns out they were right!
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May 26, 2018 00:56
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:The Pythagoreans were essentially mathemagicians. They believed that numbers were the fundamental basis of all reality and that studying mathematics would reveal the true nature of the universe. Do the numbers go up?
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May 26, 2018 01:07
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They were also strict vegetarians and didn't eat beans.
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May 26, 2018 01:32
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wheres vicky 3 thanks
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May 26, 2018 01:33
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Asproigerosis posted:wheres vicky 3 thanks 
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May 26, 2018 01:41
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dead comedy forums posted:"Imperium of Man: have Jesus of Nazareth as ruler of Roman Empire" Pakled posted:A dynamic Jesus system would own. Conditions in Judea and Galilee in the early 1st century and the decisions of whoever controls the area affecting Jesus's actions. You could have a Jesus that attains temporal power. A Jesus that lives to his 80's preaching all around the Eastern Mediterranean. A Jesus that sets out to spread his word in Persia, all resulting in radically different Christianities. this needs to be a mod if it doesn't ever get into the base game dynamic jesus would be rad as hell Sindai posted:It's worth noting that Johan claimed in an interview at PdxCon that they have no intention of pushing the end date back unless he can think of way to make playing an inevitably declining and decaying nation fun, and in his whole career that hasn't happened and he doesn't expect it to happen now. rome's decline was decidedly not inevitable. it was evitable at a million different points in late antiquity, let alone the early empire. the culmination of tons of small decisions over centuries just worked out very poorly for the western empire eventually on the other hand, rome's recovery from the crisis of the third century was definitely not inevitable either. rome could have fallen much earlier or much later, and it would be interesting to explore the possibilities there Jazerus fucked around with this message at 02:35 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 02:32
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I've said it before, but "internal factors" doesn't work so well in EU-style games because they usually translate into a flat modifier to the country, like -20% to manpower or -10% to tax revenue or whatever, which is A) boring, and B) usually kinda tedious to deal with, and C) Doesn't really give you the sense that you're dealing with an actual internal faction with its own goals and desires.
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May 26, 2018 04:42
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pops make all the difference though, internal threats are much more dynamic when your people actually exist and have attributes
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May 26, 2018 04:48
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is why I really believe that armies should have to have a "home base" of sorts. Each region could support one army, its garrison, without any extra cost. If you want to station additional armies there, that will ramp up the cost. If you want to rebase an army from Britain to to the Danube, it will take time and money just to rebase them, then they will have to settle in and then can go on offensive operations. Then you can have the whole General Varus getting his legions and their families massacred in the Tutoborg Forest because they were re-basing into new territory but instead got ambushed and annihilated.
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May 26, 2018 05:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This sounds good to me. Speaking of Germans, the frontier of your empire better be a potential drain on your resources in this regard. Something like the battle planner for HOI4, but where you define your limes and set up a garrison to guard against barbarian incursions almost seems mandatory. In true Roman fashion, the frontier garrison would then start building up defensive structures, making them more and more effective without the player having to go and build a hundred forts manually. I'd probably make the effect happen on the province level though, rather than the army level - so you don't lose all your forts and poo poo simply because you reorganized your army - with defenses just having a percentage based decay that's counteracted based on the level of support you're giving the garrison (like army tradition). If no garrison is in place, they'd of course start to fall apart rather quickly and would obviously not have any effect as long as they're unmanned. Problem: meet the solution of a WC.
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May 26, 2018 05:20
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Tomn posted:I've said it before, but "internal factors" doesn't work so well in EU-style games because they usually translate into a flat modifier to the country, like -20% to manpower or -10% to tax revenue or whatever, which is A) boring, and B) usually kinda tedious to deal with, and C) Doesn't really give you the sense that you're dealing with an actual internal faction with its own goals and desires. So what you're saying is all games should be more like ck2 so that the empire collapses because I gave it to my drunk inbred idiot son and he couldn't care less.
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May 26, 2018 06:08
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uPen posted:So what you're saying is all games should be more like ck2 so that the empire collapses because I gave it to my drunk idiot friend and he put his horse on the council and declared war on the ocean
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May 26, 2018 07:41
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Too early for Sol Invictus but I think the Pythagorean math cult is still knocking around in this time period. Umm excuse me Sol was an original Roman god from the start of the city kthx bai!!! He was totally not an eastern import.
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May 26, 2018 07:45
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I can't wait to conquer the barbarians on my border to bring security to my heartland, only to end up bordering more & worse barbarians, who I then have to conquer for the sake of security, only to reveal even more barbarians, etc etc
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May 26, 2018 07:49
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uPen posted:So what you're saying is all games should be more like ck2 so that the empire collapses because I gave it to my drunk inbred idiot son and he couldn't care less. I see no downside to this no
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May 26, 2018 07:56
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It seems weird to have a fundamental feature like the limes system be part of a game which predates it’s use by a lot.
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May 26, 2018 08:04
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I just had an idea. Three people play Hearts of Iron as Soviet Russia and all decisions must be made by committee. Production? Committee for what and how much. Research? Committee. Construction? Committee for what and where. National focuses? Who to purge and when? Committee. Split the whole Red Army up into into Red, Orange and Yellow army groups, and assign each one to a committee member. All operations must be done using the planning system, you're not allowed to touch each others troops. Pausing the game is also not allowed, to add to the clusterfuck. Very quickly this will turn into idiots bickering at each other because someone says we need T-44s by 1939 and someone else says his troops don't even have radios and guy number three wants a navy. That's why you record the whole thing as a letsplay. Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 08:34 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 08:27
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Radio Free Kobold posted:I just had an idea. Three people play Hearts of Iron as Soviet Russia and all decisions must be made by committee. Production? Committee for what and how much. Research? Committee. Construction? Committee for what and where. National focuses? Who to purge and when? Committee. Split the whole Red Army up into into Red, Orange and Yellow army groups, and assign each one to a committee member. All operations must be done using the planning system, you're not allowed to touch each others troops. Pausing the game is also not allowed, to add to the clusterfuck. I've been idly thinking about running a LP as Fascist Italy, with the twist that one person is selected as Il Duce, whose primary responsibility is to assign other posters to various other government roles, most of which overlap or interfere with each other (like one guy is responsible for designing new divisions, another is responsible for assigning military factories, someone else is responsible for queuing up new divisions, etc). Also any of the assigned ministers have the right at any time to try and declare a coup, and if they gain a majority of supporters Il Duce can be replaced by one of the few Top Ministers which he had previously selected, whereas if they fail Il Duce can begin purging. This is to simulate fascist government.
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May 26, 2018 08:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:It seems weird to have a fundamental feature like the limes system be part of a game which predates it’s use by a lot.
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May 26, 2018 08:45
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Tomn posted:I've been idly thinking about running a LP as Fascist Italy, with the twist that one person is selected as Il Duce, whose primary responsibility is to assign other posters to various other government roles, most of which overlap or interfere with each other (like one guy is responsible for designing new divisions, another is responsible for assigning military factories, someone else is responsible for queuing up new divisions, etc). Also any of the assigned ministers have the right at any time to try and declare a coup, and if they gain a majority of supporters Il Duce can be replaced by one of the few Top Ministers which he had previously selected, whereas if they fail Il Duce can begin purging. Better yet, do it as Nazi Germany and intentionally play your subordinates off against each other. Give them overlapping jurisdictions and contradictory instructions, then when they start getting poo poo figured out you order them to do something stupid. It's historical! 
Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 08:46
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Better yet, do it as Nazi Germany and intentionally play your subordinates off against each other. Give them overlapping jurisdictions and contradictory instructions, then when they start getting poo poo figured out you order them to do something stupid. It's historical! This is why it's so weird when people complain about the AI in HoI being dumb. It's like, yeah? Why do you think these people lost the war in real life?
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May 26, 2018 09:12
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That was based on Rome's historical expansion though - a Rome that had expanded more aggressively (Like say, a player controlled Rome) could run into the same issues as its historical counterpart did later on, pushing it to fortify in a similar manner. It's not like it was a technological breakthrough that allowed it, it was just Rome deciding that further expansion was unlikely - meaning a fortified border started to look like a good idea. Seems kinda silly to me to enforce strict historicity on that front alone, when a major selling point of these games is that you can change the historical circumstances. The whole system is based on the idea the Roman model is the only one possible so this excuse seems hollow.
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May 26, 2018 09:13
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The Cheshire Cat posted:This is why it's so weird when people complain about the AI in HoI being dumb. It's like, yeah? Why do you think these people lost the war in real life? the problem isn't that the AI is dumb in a "makes bad decisions" way, it's that the AI is dumb in a "doesn't know how to play the game" kind of way. like, if you tagswitch over to the AI in normal play the factories are a total mess (ex. only one factory producing tactical bombers, ten different variants of light tank that are just incremental improvements) and it's got a gorillion one-division armies just splattered all over the map. like, i'm expecting 24-division armies running battle plans backed by a pre-determined army composition (18 infantry 6 mobile needing such-and-such factories). instead i get each individual division doing whatever seems like a good idea at the time backed up by production that constantly re-tools the factories to incrementally-improved fighters. the game has all these systems to make it easy-ish and intuitive to play and the AI just doesn't use them. we had a player skip a session in my weekly multiplayer game and it took him ten minutes just to un-gently caress the thing when he got back.
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May 26, 2018 09:24
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CharlestheHammer posted:The whole system is based on the idea the Roman model is the only one possible so this excuse seems hollow. Any player led nation is going to blob out of control until it's teetering on an overextended collapse (assuming a good overextension mechanic) and will thus need a similar system.
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May 26, 2018 09:37
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I wonder how you simulate wars like the Cimbri Wars. You have people from Jutland fighting all the way in southern Gaul and near the Danube with no real formal alliances
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May 26, 2018 09:53
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I can't wait to be at war with every single neighbor because expanding as much as historical Rome put me over my badboy limit.
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May 26, 2018 11:25
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GrossMurpel posted:I can't wait to be at war with every single neighbor because expanding as much as historical Rome put me over my badboy limit. This is realistic
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May 26, 2018 11:28
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I also can't wait to have my army desperately chasing a barbarian army before Rome gets sacked yet again.
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May 26, 2018 11:31
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GrossMurpel posted:I can't wait to be at war with every single neighbor because expanding as much as historical Rome put me over my badboy limit. From the time of the mythical war with Alba Longa to the defeat of Marc Anthony by Augustus, it is said that Rome was only at peace once, in the immediate aftermath of their victory in the first Punic War. Plutarch posted:Janus also has a temple at Rome with double doors, which they call the gates of war; for the temple always stands open in time of war, but is closed when peace has come. The latter was a difficult matter, and it rarely happened, since the realm was always engaged in some war, as its increasing size brought it into collision with the barbarous nations which encompassed it round about. But in the time of Augustus it was closed, after he had overthrown Mark Antony; and before that, when Marcus Atilius and Titus Manlius were consuls, it was closed a short time; then war broke out again at once, and it was opened.[1] Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 11:52 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 11:49
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Top Hats Monthly posted:I wonder how you simulate wars like the Cimbri Wars. You have people from Jutland fighting all the way in southern Gaul and near the Danube with no real formal alliances They mentioned migrating barbarian invasions in their announcement.
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May 26, 2018 11:51
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uPen posted:So what you're saying is all games should be more like ck2 so that the empire collapses because I gave it to my drunk inbred idiot son and he couldn't care less. i think it's weird that the goal in rome2 isn't to get a player character a) rich as gently caress or b) famous as gently caress and then when you're done ruining rome with that guy you move on to the next one. sometimes you'd be a (self-)important noble, sometimes you're just some young julian upstart, and you struggle for power and titles and most importantly money and probably wreck rome pretty good doing that. but that's fine, since rome should largely take care of itself. just kick it a bit and see what money falls out. it's fine. unless you kick it too hard, or at just the wrong time. but hey if times are bad you could always go for the cincinnatus play instead like this: GrossMurpel posted:I can't wait to be at war with every single neighbor because expanding as much as historical Rome put me over my badboy limit. not your problem. or, well, your last dude probably caused it by grabbing pontus (gotta make a career somehow) but hey. and this: GrossMurpel posted:I also can't wait to have my army desperately chasing a barbarian army before Rome gets sacked yet again. well, you don't want your villa sacked. still, not really your problem. you certainly could solve it though. gimme a legion, senate. i'll beat up those barbarians for you. save this city. march back to the city with the only army in italy. it'll be fine. i'll fix this. i dunno. i'm rambling about some different game that i want to have exist.
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May 26, 2018 11:55
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Prav posted:i think it's weird that the goal in rome2 isn't to get a player character a) rich as gently caress or b) famous as gently caress and then when you're done ruining rome with that guy you move on to the next one. Eh...things weren't ordained from the beginning to go off the rails. Julio-Claudians were real unlucky. If the first four emperors had been Augustus-Drusus-Germanicus-Nero (son of Germanicus) then Rome would have ended up a lot more stable. That's ninety to a hundred years worth of capable rulers right there, and no reason this Nero wouldn't have had sons of his own, and if not him his younger brother. Also, if Drusus doesn't fall off his loving horse, he'll crush Arminius and the Roman-German border will be on the Elbe, not the Rhine. And there's tons of other turning points. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 12:35 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 12:11
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Charlz Guybon posted:Any player led nation is going to blob out of control until it's teetering on an overextended collapse (assuming a good overextension mechanic) and will thus need a similar system. Developing a system that most players aren’t gonna see seems stupid. As once they blob up enough for that to be relevant most players will have quit. This system seems more useful for a DLC with a new start date IMO
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May 26, 2018 12:40
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Tomn posted:I've said it before, but "internal factors" doesn't work so well in EU-style games because they usually translate into a flat modifier to the country, like -20% to manpower or -10% to tax revenue or whatever, which is A) boring, and B) usually kinda tedious to deal with, and C) Doesn't really give you the sense that you're dealing with an actual internal faction with its own goals and desires. I hate to say it, but Magna Mundi (P2) really did this sort of thing well. Sure, it was modifier hell, but the way you worked with those modifiers was deeply interactive and immersive. You felt like you were actually changing things internally.
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May 26, 2018 16:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Attila is fun but it's also generally more fun to play as someone other than Rome. Plus it has the advantage of having Rome already on the decline as the starting scenario - it's much more difficult to have a game where you spend most of it as an ascendant Rome and then start to decline in a way that feels organic rather than forced. Honestly I think the best way to play through the rise and fall of Rome would be something like CK2--where people playing in Rome aren't playing *as* Rome, so that while Rome itself could be on the decline, the players and their factions might *not* be.
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May 26, 2018 21:17
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:The Pythagoreans were essentially mathemagicians. They believed that numbers were the fundamental basis of all reality and that studying mathematics would reveal the true nature of the universe. They also killed the guy who proved that irrational numbers exist since that conflicted with their notion of the holiness of numbers.
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May 26, 2018 21:37
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Morholt posted:They also killed the guy who proved that irrational numbers exist since that conflicted with their notion of the holiness of numbers. Yeah early mathematics was nuts. There's a fun video about Pythagoras and his cult here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1E7I7_r3Cw, which as a nice bonus also includes a proof of the irrationality of root(2) using only the mathematics of his time.
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May 26, 2018 21:46
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the math cult and them killing the guy who proved irrational numbers exist is just cartoonish
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May 27, 2018 02:18
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Charlz Guybon posted:If the first four emperors had been Augustus-Drusus-Germanicus-Nero (son of Germanicus) then Rome would have ended up a lot more stable. Charlz Guybon posted:Also, if Drusus doesn't fall off his loving horse, he'll crush Arminius and the Roman-German border will be on the Elbe, not the Rhine. How do you know this?
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May 27, 2018 03:25
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