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Kassad posted:So this seems interesting: a political researcher says data from two surveys suggest that centrists are less supportive of democracy than the far-left or the far-right. ...OK, I have to ask: what exactly do they consider "centrist" and "extreme" in this context? Because "centrist" in the US means only slightly to the left of anarcho capitalism and in Europe it means something far more reasonable.
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May 25, 2018 20:42
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AceOfFlames posted:...OK, I have to ask: what exactly do they consider "centrist" and "extreme" in this context? Because "centrist" in the US means only slightly to the left of anarcho capitalism and in Europe it means something far more reasonable. They asked the people being interviewed if they were right,left or center. So you know theres some people claiming to be leftists because they voted for new labour or spd dragging the lefts numbers down. Ps:lol the guy used data from studies done in 2008,2010 and 2014 so you know poo poo be even crazier now. Ps2: check the pdf data paper for some serious disconnect,the right values freedom more than equality but they also love a strong daddy more than anything. Antifa Poltergeist fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 21:40
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ChainsawCharlie posted:They asked the people being interviewed if they were right,left or center. So you know theres some people claiming to be leftists because they voted for macron or spd dragging the lefts numbers down. So then how did they derive "far right" and "far left"?
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May 25, 2018 21:43
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fishmech posted:So then how did they derive "far right" and "far left"? By people answering if they were far right or not?its not the more scientific method though but im assuming most people know where on the political spectrum they identify themselves with.
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May 25, 2018 21:51
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ChainsawCharlie posted:By people answering if they were far right or not?its not the more scientific method though but im assuming most people know where on the political spectrum they identify themselves with. So then where's the data from all the people who said just "left" or "right" on the charts? One would expect that to be a pretty significant chunk of the answers which they're mysteriously choosing to exclude.
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May 25, 2018 22:02
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fishmech posted:So then where's the data from all the people who said just "left" or "right" on the charts? One would expect that to be a pretty significant chunk of the answers which they're mysteriously choosing to exclude. cmom dude,the links to the original studies and working paper are right there in the article. Im not saying its a really indepth study but its a somewhat interesting article and analysis.
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May 25, 2018 22:52
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Landslide victory for Yes, according to exit polls. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-exit-poll-projects-ireland-has-voted-by-landslide-to-repeal-eighth-amendment-1.3508861
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May 25, 2018 22:58
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According to that exit poll, the only demographic that voted majorly for "no" were the 65+ years old. From 18 to 64, a large majority of yes voters. Clear majority of yes voters across all other demographic categories too (male/female, urban/rural, or by county). A really consensual outcome. As a compromise, I suggest that abortion remain illegal for people aged 65+, that way everyone should be happy.
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May 26, 2018 00:17
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The 65+ demographic in having horrible politics yet again shocker.
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May 26, 2018 00:27
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Cat Mattress posted:As a compromise, I suggest that abortion remain illegal for people aged 65+, that way everyone should be happy. You're coming at this from entirely the wrong direction, Comrade. After decades of us having to have poo poo imposed on us by those coffin dodgers we should force them all to have abortions and then write smug op-eds about how ungrateful they are to us for making them do something that builds character. Yes even the cismen.
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May 26, 2018 02:35
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AceOfFlames posted:...OK, I have to ask: what exactly do they consider "centrist" and "extreme" in this context? Because "centrist" in the US means only slightly to the left of anarcho capitalism and in Europe it means something far more reasonable.
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May 26, 2018 05:32
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Lord of the Llamas posted:The 65+ demographic in having horrible politics yet again shocker. The 65+ in Sweden is the group most likely to vote for Socialdemocrats no matter what, so yes?
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May 26, 2018 06:29
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Happy GDPR guys! https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/25/17393766/facebook-google-gdpr-lawsuit-max-schrems-europe quote:Facebook and Google hit with $8.8 billion in lawsuits on day one of GDPR
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May 26, 2018 06:53
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MiddleOne posted:Happy GDPR guys! Given that GDPR also gives Ireland sole jurisdiction in these lawsuits I remain dubious that they will succeed, even though Facebook needs to be burned down.
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May 26, 2018 07:49
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MiddleOne posted:Happy GDPR guys! Man the comments on that article. Americans really have a skewed perception of European legislation, don't they? All the better, stringent regulations are a first step. Hopefully we can march further on this path and regulate most of the abuses by the tech sector out of existence.
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May 26, 2018 12:40
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Cat Mattress posted:According to that exit poll, the only demographic that voted majorly for "no" were the 65+ years old. From 18 to 64, a large majority of yes voters. Clear majority of yes voters across all other demographic categories too (male/female, urban/rural, or by county). A really consensual outcome. For comparison's sake, here are the results of the 1983 referendum which introduced the Eight Amendment in the first place.  Even most of Dublin voted in favor. It really is a generational divide; the same thing's happening in Ireland now that happened in the rest of Western Europe a few decades earlier.
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May 26, 2018 13:04
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Phlegmish posted:For comparison's sake, here are the results of the 1983 referendum which introduced the Eight Amendment in the first place.
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May 26, 2018 15:15
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Apparently the attempt to form a government in Italy have failed? 
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May 27, 2018 19:24
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Char posted:There's only one word to describe the Italian Government situation, and this word is "grotesque". It turns out that it was the proposed finance minister who got vetoed instead, but otherwise you were spot on: https://twitter.com/FerdiGiugliano/status/1000803548987318272
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May 27, 2018 19:24
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9-Volt Assault posted:Apparently the attempt to form a government in Italy have failed? 
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May 27, 2018 20:40
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Toplowtech posted:Well, it's not surprising really when your abortion ban ends up killing women and just move the abortions' site to the other side the sea. It tell us more about the late death of catholicism in Ireland. So are anti-abortionists now getting a stomach Ulster? 
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May 27, 2018 21:36
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As a compromise the DUP will push for mandatory abortions for Catholics.
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May 27, 2018 23:09
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9-Volt Assault posted:Apparently the attempt to form a government in Italy have failed? Is this a good or bad thing? Lega is pushing for new elections which means they expect to get more votes ergo it’s likely going to get worse, right?
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May 28, 2018 01:01
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https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1000912237337415680?s=21 If the League backs 5 Star on this then there’ll be enough votes to do it.
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May 28, 2018 04:15
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OhFunny posted:https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1000912237337415680?s=21
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May 28, 2018 07:30
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Countdown to the new york times demanding the CIA set up shop in Italy again to keep the evil Populists out of power just like the good old days?
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May 28, 2018 07:38
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icantfindaname posted:Countdown to the new york times demanding the CIA set up shop in Italy again to keep the evil Populists out of power just like the good old days? That only happens if they’re inclined towards socialism - right wing lunatics can be ‘negotiated with’. Allende had to go, Pinochet was the right man for the job.
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May 28, 2018 07:41
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OhFunny posted:https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1000912237337415680?s=21 They might have enough votes, but our removal procedure has to go through an actual trial in front of the constitutional court. For reference, we have 15 constitutional judges; a judge stays for 9 years with a single mandate limit. 5 judges are nominated by the president of the republic, 5 are nominated by the judiciary, 5 by the parliament, and I don't think the current parliament has had any occasion to nominate one yet. In addition, during a removal trial there's an extra 16 "judges", chosen randomly from all citizens at least 40 years old. Yes, they're basically jurors. Even assuming the only judge nominated by Mattarella recuses, that's still 14 out of 30 judges that will never vote for removal, and Lega + M5S don't have the popular support required to make the 16 randomly chosen judges vote yes. Don't take me wrong, those calls are just the last step in the continued march towards fascism and Di Maio ought to be indicted for those, but they're idle and empty threats. EDIT: or rather, they're blustering meant to try and erode the constitutional checks and balances. The threat is not the short term one. Omobono fucked around with this message at 08:22 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 08:19
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In not-independence-related news, we have an impeachment proposal going on in Spain right now, after a very bad week for PP (the ruling party). We finally got a sentence for a corruption case that implicates people who were in the party from 1.999 to 2.008 (so it includes time with Rajoy as president, and the judges have heavily insinuated that he was aware of it). The former treasurer of the Popular Party was sentenced to 33 years, several local level party members got up to 10 years, and the party itself was fined with 200.000 euros for benefiting from the corruption, which may be a first in Spain. And then yet another high level former party member, Eduardo Zaplana, ex-President of Valencia was arrested for, guess what, corruption. He's being charged with stealing around 7MM euros. Rajoy's defence of "no one of these are in the party right now" and "it's just a few people" is becoming more and more laughable when any picture of the party leadership in say, 2010, is looking like it would fit in an episode of "The Wire" nailed to a cork board.
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May 28, 2018 08:41
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are there any lefty groups poised to gain from the corruption charges or is it other right-populists that are profiting from the cabinet of
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May 28, 2018 09:06
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It turns out that it was the proposed finance minister who got vetoed instead, but otherwise you were spot on: The situation evolved very quickly during the week, we finally had a showdown yesterday. In light of how the situation ended up, it's easier to understand everyone's strategy so far. A recap: according to the official sources, Mattarella didn't want professor Paolo Savona as the Minister of Economy. The power of vetoing proposals in the executive team is stated by a specific article of our Constitution. The reasoning supporting such veto was tied to the image of this guy. This professor has already been a member of previous Ministries of Economy, but he got branded as an anti-euro menace because he made public both his intention of changing the EU, to be a more inclusive organization, or, failing that, to freeze bank accounts overnight and convert everything into national currency to prevent capital flight. The showdown is that Mattarella proposed someone else in his place, a certain Giancarlo Giorgetti, who is Matteo Salvini's second in command: the answer was the stop to negotiations, and formally agreeing to disagree. As I stated, what is the truth after yesterday, in my humble opinion: -neither party knew how to form an alliance with each other, since both the buildup to our national elections was a continuous reciprocal insulting contest, and the two parties who "won" had dealbreaking differences in their platform; -Conte was chosen as the sacrifical lamb, or the puppet in their best hypothesis; -both parties said that they wanted to make a government, but actually took time, hoping for an opportunity to backstab each other. Salvini won on account of various circumstantial factors, such as M5S's mix of inexperience and incompetence, and the rest of Europe pointing their finger at us. The aftermath is that we get either a Monti 2 government , a new election round, or, more likely, both. It is likely true there won't be talks about exiting the euro soon, but the story Salvini is already spinning is that democracy is less important than finance, that the country is currently on European plutocrats' leash and, factually, there's no Italian sovereignity. M5S has proposed our version of presidential impeachment for Mattarella - who acted in complete respect of our Constitution - and this proves how damaging the blow was, in my opinion. This is not a winning narrative: they said also that Lega should support this proposal. The sidelines are interesting too: Berlusconi was a dealbreaker for M5S, so he let Lega and M5S work on their own without saying anything - now, it looks like the Forza Italia-Lega alliance can be re-established, while Giorgia Meloni, the leader of Fratelli D'Italia, the minority-minority party in the right wing coalition, already said she wants to support the impeachment proposal. Char fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 09:09
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Holy poo poo italian politics right now looks like a mix of game of thrones and the tick of it. New elections now? Or will italy break belgiums record of most time with a transition goverment? Also the troubles with pp caught a lot of people here by suprise,because all we heard last week was the podemos guy buying a 600k house,wow much hypocrasy.
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May 28, 2018 09:26
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double nine posted:are there any lefty groups poised to gain from the corruption charges or is it other right-populists that are profiting from the cabinet of The PSOE is center-left (compared to PP and Cs at least), and its impeachment proposal has them as a ruling party with the promise to get new elections as soon as possible. They have the votes of Podemos, which is clearly leftist with a heavy populist bent. Those are not enough votes, though, so they have to get some more: - Ciudadanos, which is basically a new, younger PP that hasn't got the chance of - JxSi, Catalan nationalists, would vote in favour of the impeachment if PSOE "recognises Catalonian right to self determination" and "frees political prisoners". PSOE has told them to get bent. They are in an interesting situation. They have been blaming PP for everything, so if they don't vote in favour that will raise some eyebows, but if they support PSOE without getting concessions their more radical supporters get to grumble. - PP, meanwhile, is accusing PSOE of being an opportunist making a naked grab for power (they are, because they are free falling in the polls) and having "secret pacts" with pro-independence parties. I think the other groups don't have enough votes to have a say on this. So, fun times all around. ChainsawCharlie posted:Also the troubles with pp caught a lot of people here by suprise,because all we heard last week was the podemos guy buying a 600k house,wow much hypocrasy. No, no, no, when other politicians buy 600k houses they are trying to speculate, when Podemos does it is to form a family, it's a completely different thing. 
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May 28, 2018 09:53
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Fat Samurai posted:No, no, no, when other politicians buy 600k houses they are trying to speculate, when Podemos does it is to form a family, it's a completely different thing. Didn't Podemos make a big deal when a PP politician bought a 600k house? But then again, SYRIZA is schooling all other Greek parties in how brazenly nepotistic you can be and the left seems to like it.
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May 28, 2018 10:11
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ChainsawCharlie posted:Holy poo poo italian politics right now looks like a mix of game of thrones and the tick of it. New elections now? Or will italy break belgiums record of most time with a transition goverment? While elsewhere in the world barbarians were wearing loincloth, we were assassinating Julius Caesar  The supposedly-appointed-PM is in the President's office now, let's see what happens.
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May 28, 2018 11:12
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GaussianCopula posted:But then again, SYRIZA is schooling all other Greek parties in how brazenly nepotistic you can be and the left seems to like it. I'm going to regret this, but there are no leftists fans of syriza. The only people who like them are social democrats
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May 28, 2018 11:28
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...And before you embarrass yourself, social democrats have been very consciously and openly centrists for a generation now.
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May 28, 2018 11:34
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LMAO, the answer is .... MOAR TECHNOCRACY! This can only end well. quote:Italian president asks ‘Mr. Scissors’ technocrat to form government https://www.politico.eu/article/italian-president-asks-mr-scissors-technocrat-to-form-government/ Imagine putting another austerity dickhead at the helm when M5S and Lega, together with the voters, have said gently caress that.
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May 28, 2018 11:39
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GaussianCopula posted:Didn't Podemos make a big deal when a PP politician bought a 600k house?
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May 28, 2018 11:43
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"Democracy didn't deliver the results we wanted, so I'm going to do everything in my power to delegitimize my position" -teh persident of italy
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May 28, 2018 11:45
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