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Autonomous Monster posted:If you skip to 11:06 in this video they start poking around in the province interface here and you can sort of see the system in action:
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May 28, 2018 13:28
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Trade is done at the province layer - at pdxcon Johann talked about how you had to own several cities in a province producing the same trade good to get a surplus of the good to trade with. Oh, now it makes sense why there's that UI panel with all of the cities in one province and a bunch of trade related icons, I was wondering about that. So trade surpluses will be generated on a province level and presumably you can trade poo poo around also on the province level and any remaining surpluses or goods traded in can then be assigned to specific cities?
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May 28, 2018 14:17
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Charlz Guybon posted:Didn't Oman interact a lot with East Africa? yeah, if india's in ck2 then east africa probably deserves to be also
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May 28, 2018 16:42
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Jazerus posted:yeah, if india's in ck2 then east africa probably deserves to be also India really shouldn't be in CK2, though...
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May 28, 2018 16:55
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AnoHito posted:India really shouldn't be in CK2, though... Before Jade Dragon I would have agreed with you, but adding Tibet worked really well in making India feel like a part of the world, instead of this small sub-game going on in the distance.
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May 28, 2018 17:04
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Dev Diary out, not news but thank good they won't keep the tedious trade mechanics. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-development-diary-1-28th-of-may-2018.1101600/ Also there's really a shitload of factions, quite a massive difference from EU Rome which was so much wasteland. Pump it up! Do it! fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 17:23
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Charlz Guybon posted:Dev diary #1 Is nobody going to mention the platypus in legionary armor?
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May 28, 2018 18:10
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Fister Roboto posted:Is nobody going to mention the platypus in legionary armor? Johan posted:Rageair 2.0, the Error-Platypi!
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May 28, 2018 18:22
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Koramei posted:Oriental empires has a bunch of really interesting ideas but it’s kind of an oddly put together game. I love the sense of progress in it especially though, passing the reforms and stuff, you really feel like you’re moving through time and making sweeping changes even when your borders barely move. I'd say that Ancient China would be a good standalone mod for Imperator (Huangdi?). There would have to be a clear difference between the barbarians and Huaxia cultures in terms of diplomatic relations, and the Hundred Schools of Thought would probably need to use the religion mechanics to have real mechanical weight, but it's doable. A multi-layered vassalage system similar to CK2 would be absolutely necessary, though. In terms of how blobby the maps would be- from what I understand is that historically even the Qin and very early Han weren't too unified compared to later imperial dynasties. There were still vassal kings and dukes and relatively independent prefectures and all that. The rebels who overthrew the Qin were partially composed of the remnants of these deposed ruling clans that still had some nominal authority, after all. Depending on where the mod draws off the timeline, aiming for a historical time period that's roughly from Eastern Zhou to the end of the Chu-Han Contention (~750 - 200 B.C.) would cover the most prominent timeframe of Chinese Antiquity that's roughly coterminous with the big changes going on on the opposite end of the Axial Age. But maybe halfway through or near the end of the Spring and Autumn would be a better starting point if you wanted the total timeframe of the mod to be the same length as the original game (~300 years or so). I don't have access to any detailed maps, but make sure to double check the coastlines and river positions- the Yellow River's deposited a lot of silt and changed course significantly in the past 2500 years. Edit: oh yeah, and seal script for the re-skinned GUI icons. Love me some seal script. Spiderfist Island fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 18:45
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My thinking was starting shortly after the partition of Jin (so 453 or so) or maybe after the first gargantuan war in the 380s between half the states, when the chaos really got started; it gives a couple of centuries until the historical unification and I figure is about how long a person will take to do it, plus it lets me skirt around having to worry about the Zhou fiefs (like you mention) as being a central mechanic, since the Warring States period was the transition out of that. We'll see how the mechanics look though, I might pick a different date. My dream would be to go from the start of the Spring and Autumn all the way to the loving Sui and Tang but I highly doubt that'd be workable (and definitely not to begin with) unless there are some really interesting mechanics for external and internal threats--I did see mention that nomads spawning later on is gonna be a thing, so maybe someday. Seal script icons look great but for a mod catering to a western audience I do want to go a bit more varied so things are more distinctive, at least for the major states. I'm gonna redo most of the UI though, art's a big focus of this mod since I can use it to showcase. I did spend a while on historical geography actually (finding sources for regions beyond China was a big pain though):  (this is for 1000 BCE but you get the idea) A lot was different beyond the coastline and course of the Yellow River--the whole northeastern central plain was wetter and marshier, and around the Yangtze there were huge lakes and marshes. Plus forests covering tons of stuff of course. Most of the historical lakes haven't been uncovered by archaeology yet though so I ended up mostly using modern ones, just slightly bigger. Mantis42 posted:Uh, how's your Chinese? Because this is probably going to be the gold standard for something like that. I took 4 years of it so I can at least transcribe characters and figure it out via the internet given enough time, but I can't find this book near me, sadly. It led to some other good stuff though so thanks! Another question, does anyone know a program to add interactive labels, borders etc to a map/image? I did it all in Photoshop before but that gets really loving slow after you have a lot of stuff in a file, so I figure there's got to be a better way.
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May 28, 2018 19:40
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Obfuscation posted:Not a lot of concrete info but omens and trade were indeed terrible in EU:R so removing those is a good start. I'm nervous to see any comparison to EU:R, because so much in that game was a poorly-implemented mess. I hope they start from scratch really.
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May 29, 2018 23:58
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I'm nervous to see any comparison to EU:R, because so much in that game was a poorly-implemented mess. I hope they start from scratch really. I mean, it's the obvious point of reference for "Paradox presents classical age Mediterranean grand strategy;" even if Paradox distanced themselves from EU:R in the announcement it would be the example drawn on by everyone else. Personally I find it encouraging that they own up to the game's legacy, talk about good ideas with bad implementation that they hope to correct and what flat-out wasn't fun. Obviously we're still going to see some points of departure as more of the game gets revealed, but I really appreciate that they owned up to this stuff right in the first DD.
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May 30, 2018 05:59
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I'm nervous to see any comparison to EU:R, because so much in that game was a poorly-implemented mess. I hope they start from scratch really. The first crusader Kings was even more of a mess. If they can turn that game into one of their most popular titles than you shouldn't be worried that they can transform Rome. Hopefully this time they manage to limit their scope somewhat though.
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May 30, 2018 14:06
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Gaius Marius posted:The first crusader Kings was even more of a mess. I'm going to have to contest that. Okay, vanilla CK1 was a screaming garbage fire while EU:R was just creaky and dull, but fully patched DV was fairly enjoyable imo. VV... never got that far. Vivian Darkbloom posted:I'm nervous to see any comparison to EU:R, because so much in that game was a poorly-implemented mess. I hope they start from scratch really. Well buckle up, because I:R is looking very similar to EU:R right now. We're down to counting an extra class of pop and a couple new troop types as differences. The only thing I'm really worried about is trade, though, which had the sort of UX that drives Apple devs to insane asylums.
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May 30, 2018 15:25
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CK1 is noticeably a product of paradox pre- the awesome spike in budget and quality. However it was still tremendous fun, yet in EU:R I don't think I caught myself having fun once.
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May 30, 2018 15:42
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Captain Mediocre posted:CK1 is noticeably a product of paradox pre- the awesome spike in budget and quality. However it was still tremendous fun, yet in EU:R I don't think I caught myself having fun once. It's been a while, but from what I recall CK1 wasn't even developed by Paradox originally, it was made by some third party devs until Paradox stepped in and took over to try and salvage what they could of its troubled development. Mind, CK1 always had a key concept that allowed the whole game to work despite its flaws - the whole idea of "dynastic gameplay." That was wholly unique and allowed for all kinds of never-before-seen emergent stories, and would have allowed CK1 to be a cult classic even if it had even worse design and programming than it actually did. EU: Rome never had a strong central concept that could match that, and was always much more unsure of itself.
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May 30, 2018 15:55
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Autonomous Monster posted:The only thing I'm really worried about is trade, though, which had the sort of UX that drives Apple devs to insane asylums. fortunately: quote:Trade was lots of micromanagement, this have been reworked for a more interesting and fun mechanic. It is one of only 3 things that Johan actually points out as being different from the old Rome though so you might have a point. I guess we'll see, although the new UI and poo poo they've learned over the past decade surely counts for a lot by itself.
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May 30, 2018 16:08
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My only encounter with CK1 was a long LP centred around (I think) Jerusalem, and the impression that I got from that was that it was noble failure. Thankfully Paradox realised its potential and explored it further in the sequel.
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May 30, 2018 16:08
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I liked CK1 in its time. But even vanilla 1.0 CK2 is better in every conceivable way so there's no reason to play it anymore.
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May 30, 2018 16:26
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CK1 was a fun game at the time. Trying to go back to it now is a nightmare of obtuse UIs and mechanics.
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May 30, 2018 16:27
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Also extremely loud, brassy music and sound effects.
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May 30, 2018 16:42
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I loved the Victoria I soundtrack even though it was a zero effort rip of public domain classical songs from the 19th century
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May 30, 2018 17:04
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I had almost forgotten about the horn doots when clicking your court but you just reminded me and now I can perfectly hear it in my head again, thanks. CKDV was fine but plagued with bad UI and bugged events. CK2 at release was basically fixed CKDV with a vaguely usable UI and it was actually a little disappointing until Old God's.
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May 30, 2018 17:05
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I played ck1 again like 2 weeks ago. A lot of weird small differences you just forget completely. Remember how tech had to travel through completely invisible trade routes?
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May 30, 2018 17:33
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zedprime posted:I had almost forgotten about the horn doots when clicking your court but you just reminded me and now I can perfectly hear it in my head again, thanks. Dude, no. CKDV had some mechanics that barely worked - like assassinations, which the AI used only in retaliation, or the proto-estates that had no effect on gameplay at all. Its diplomacy was a hot mess, there were no alliances at all, the Holy Roman Empire would always fragment completely within 50 years and crusades were a swarm of Christian lords individually declaring wars on some poor sheikh that happened to hold Jerusalem. It was a game where it was actually impossible to punish a disloyal vassal, because you couldn't imprison or execute anyone. CK2 was a much better game even after release.
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May 30, 2018 17:46
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Yeah CK2 was the first game Paradox released that was actually decent and playable from the get-go.
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May 30, 2018 18:02
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CK2 was entirely playable and the last thing I wanted to play at the time. It was just kind of there.
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May 30, 2018 18:14
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Those estates did have a gameplay function, they changed your troop composition, your income and, I think revolt chance?
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May 30, 2018 18:14
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Reinstalled Rome and woah.... so many ui things lacking that I take for granted now. Army sizes don't even show on the map. Almost painful to play.  Gorn Myson posted:My only encounter with CK1 was a long LP centred around (I think) Jerusalem 
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May 30, 2018 18:24
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Fintilgin posted:Reinstalled Rome and woah.... so many ui things lacking that I take for granted now. Army sizes don't even show on the map. Almost painful to play. Yeah we're "spoiled now", I can't even go back to Hoi2 or Vicky due to that 
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May 30, 2018 18:27
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The best part about going back to Rome is hearing all the notification etc sounds and realising that CK2 just lifted them after getting a lot of unplaced deja vu Also whipping Pyrrhus' rear end as Rome then almost immediately becoming a godlike power is hella rad
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May 30, 2018 19:58
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Gantolandon posted:It was a game where it was actually impossible to punish a disloyal vassal, because you couldn't imprison or execute anyone. CK2 was a much better game even after release. I played a bit of CK1 during that bit of time I had a computer that couldn't run Clausewitz games. I remember I had a rebelling vassal and I was barely winning, and then the Pope excommunicated me for fighting with another Christian. And that loving horn. CK1 was fine, patched up at least (didn't it need a patch to not crash on startup when it released?), but CK2 really is superior in like, every way.
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May 30, 2018 20:33
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I can still hear it in my dreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ-5RvOzCfc e: this video doesnt get it across but that horn is like twice as loud as any other sound in the game
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May 30, 2018 20:59
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Pakled posted:I can still hear it in my dreams in CK2 the background noise when you have the council screen open annoys me. clashes with the music.
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May 30, 2018 22:21
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I played ck1 again like 2 weeks ago. A lot of weird small differences you just forget completely. Remember how tech had to travel through completely invisible trade routes? Hell yeah I do!  And culture spread too, I think. The whole tech spread system was done 100% through events, I think, which made it insanely moddable. Fintilgin posted:Reinstalled Rome and woah.... so many ui things lacking that I take for granted now. Army sizes don't even show on the map. Almost painful to play. Forget army sizes, it's impossible to tell how many separate stacks there are in a province without the tooltip 
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May 30, 2018 23:50
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I'm reading SPQR at the moment and it's making me hype as hell for Imperator.
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May 31, 2018 01:23
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Remember barely being able to see yourself if you played in Iceland?
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May 31, 2018 01:35
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Remember barely being able to see yourself if you played in Iceland?
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May 31, 2018 02:26
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Remember barely being able to see yourself if you played in Iceland? And if there was a crusade going on, you couldn't see yourself at all!
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May 31, 2018 02:36
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Autonomous Monster posted:Hell yeah I do! I forgot about how hosed up old paradox maps used to be. Just squiggle some shapes that vaguely resemble Europe and you're good to go. The northwest shift in Africa and how they had to nudge large parts of the the western and eastern parts of the map to make it work was  I wonder if this was just a weird stylistic decision or if they had to shrink the Mediterranean due to map size limitations in the engine or something. It's maps like that that make me appreciate that Imperator's map will just be a slice of a globe. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:48 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 02:45
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