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Countblanc posted:buddy if you don't like anime you came to the wrong subforum. Japanimation is pretty sweet, Akira is my favorite mangamovie. But I still don’t understand why the main character is called Canada when it’s set in NeonTokyo? 
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May 25, 2018 22:47
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LongDarkNight posted:Can anyone point me a good boilerplate harassment policy to use for a game convention? From a skim, this looks good. http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy
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May 25, 2018 23:10
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Comrade Koba posted:Japanimation is pretty sweet, Akira is my favorite mangamovie. But I still don’t understand why the main character is called Canada when it’s set in NeonTokyo? I just saw Akira for the first time and it loving ruled.
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May 26, 2018 00:10
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Just to be clear, that's the anime that made Alexandre Dumas look like a checkerboard-teeth Niles Crane white dude, right? It's like, straight up some racist poo poo?
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May 26, 2018 00:13
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theironjef posted:Just to be clear, that's the anime that made Alexandre Dumas look like a checkerboard-teeth Niles Crane white dude, right? It's like, straight up some racist poo poo? I don't know man.
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May 26, 2018 00:33
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theironjef posted:Just to be clear, that's the anime that made Alexandre Dumas look like a checkerboard-teeth Niles Crane white dude, right? It's like, straight up some racist poo poo? I believe that is Fate/ Strange Fake, which was a fan work by the creator of Baccano! Which is now being officially produced as an anime by the main franchise. It's a weird franchise on every possible level.
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May 26, 2018 01:04
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Joe Slowboat posted:I believe that is Fate/ Strange Fake, which was a fan work by the creator of Baccano! Which is now being officially produced as an anime by the main franchise. It's a weird franchise on every possible level. And it's the series in the franchise where the story's Jack the Ripper ISN'T a tiny murderous loli.
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May 26, 2018 01:41
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What's supppsed to be the appeal of the Nasuverse beyond collecting merchandise of your favorite waifu? Every time I try looking it up or asking friends who pay attention to it, my eyes involuntarily glaze over.
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May 26, 2018 04:34
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NGDBSS posted:What's supppsed to be the appeal of the Nasuverse beyond collecting merchandise of your favorite waifu? Every time I try looking it up or asking friends who pay attention to it, my eyes involuntarily glaze over. The Fate/ subset was originally about extremely weird people with complicated magic that evolves out of that personal weirdness in more or less compelling ways, plus ancient mythological heroes as extremely anime designs fighting each other. Most of what I get out of it is the ludicrous magic systems and offbeat interpretations of mythic and historical figures. Sometimes these interpretations are rich and interesting. Sometimes, unfortunately, they are racist trash. But thankfully not as often as you'd think. There's just a lot of stuff in the Fate/ franchise, and a bunch of it is fun. Also the Zero anime was pretty solid. Edit: also the time travel plot in the original was wild, and Gilgamesh in Fate/ is actually pretty compelling as a weird version of the original story, with the 'anime' slider all the way at the top of the scale.
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May 26, 2018 04:44
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NGDBSS posted:What's supppsed to be the appeal of the Nasuverse beyond collecting merchandise of your favorite waifu? Every time I try looking it up or asking friends who pay attention to it, my eyes involuntarily glaze over.
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May 26, 2018 04:51
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It's like those 'who would win in a fight, superman or goku' arguments, only goku's got breasts for no adequately-explained reason
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May 26, 2018 04:58
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Terrible Opinions posted:Nerds will like anything if you give them enough "lore", actual quality is irrelevant to them. The series has a fuckton of it explained in excruciating detail. Same reason people like WoW lore, or Malazan, or the Star Wars expanded universe. This, basically. Also it's like baseball in that both set of fans are weirdly obsessed with minutiae and present the subject matter as the most boring thing imaginable to anyone not already interested in it.
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May 26, 2018 05:18
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Leraika posted:It's like those 'who would win in a fight, superman or goku' arguments, only goku's got breasts for no adequately-explained reason Sells slightly more and the people against it don't not buy. It's the Evony principle before the Evony principle was even a thing.
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May 26, 2018 05:18
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I remember trying to watch it when it was briefly on Netflix. I turned it off a few episodes in, it was definitely going to be one of those shows where the characters never stop explaining the unreasonably complicated and arcane rules to themselves and each other in excruciating detail for the majority of each episode instead of doing anything.
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May 26, 2018 06:36
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Terrible Opinions posted:Nerds will like anything if you give them enough "lore", actual quality is irrelevant to them. The series has a fuckton of it explained in excruciating detail. Same reason people like WoW lore, or Malazan, or the Star Wars expanded universe. or glorantha. gently caress y'all fight me.
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May 26, 2018 08:56
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I'd put Glorantha, Tolkein, and Dune in the next level up where there is a level of actual professional consideration given to all the components but it's still really drive and only there for the sort of person who likes documentaries. Whereas Nasuverse stuff is strictly to feed the nerd desire for MOAR CONTENT.
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May 26, 2018 09:06
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Going back to Shonen fight stuff, suprised there's been no mention of Saint Seiya. Each character has a set of themed powers, and fights against evenly matched (or the generally protagonists vs. anyone) opponents tend to turn into power loophole vs. power loophole.
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May 26, 2018 09:11
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NGDBSS posted:What's supppsed to be the appeal of the Nasuverse beyond collecting merchandise of your favorite waifu? Every time I try looking it up or asking friends who pay attention to it, my eyes involuntarily glaze over. It's about 70% waifu collecting and 30% "Nasu is good at writing weird complicated systems of magic/metaphysics that are internally consistent," which is something a not-insignificant portion of people who like elfgames enjoy.
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May 26, 2018 10:46
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Angrymog posted:Going back to Shonen fight stuff, suprised there's been no mention of Saint Seiya. What dude every fight with Pegasus is him getting his rear end kicked for two episodes until he goes "haha you can't use the same move against a saint twice" even though his Pegasus meteor that didn't work the first time is what beats the bad guy once he uses it again. Or it's Shiryuu ripping off his cloth armor and beating the bad guy which makes his armor honestly useless (I still love Saint Seiya though it was my first Anime)
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May 26, 2018 13:10
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's about 70% waifu collecting and 30% "Nasu is good at writing weird complicated systems of magic/metaphysics that are internally consistent," which is something a not-insignificant portion of people who like elfgames enjoy. the hell are you talking about, everyone knows the only reason you read or watch Nasu stuff is so you can better appreciate Carnival Phantasm and Today's Menu for the Emiya Family
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May 27, 2018 18:20
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the hell are you talking about, everyone knows the only reason you read or watch Nasu stuff is so you can better appreciate Carnival Phantasm and Today's Menu for the Emiya Family I was kind of stunned my friends (admittedly nerds) found Carnival Phantasm funny without knowing any of the reference material; perhaps yours will too!
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May 27, 2018 19:06
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Angrymog posted:Going back to Shonen fight stuff, suprised there's been no mention of Saint Seiya. Someone made a huge conversion of all of Saint Seiya to Weapons of the Gods of all things back in the day. I remain sad that it disappeared with the old Eos Press website.
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May 28, 2018 01:16
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To turn this away from anime chat and back onto industry issues, John Harper just admitted on kickstarter and Google+ that all of the hacks that were unlocked as stretch goals on his Blades in the Dark kickstarter were actually unpaid favors between friends. The final rules took two extra years to come out, but presumably the unpaid nature is also contributing to the reason why only 1 stretch goal is near final publication, and only two others are known to be anywhere close to done. https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1001314763165515777 https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1001328539260538880 If anyone wants an idea of how many were promised, I posted the information in the Blades thread here So, I guess the lesson here is kickstarter backers reasonably assume if you unlock something as a stretch goal, money will be used to pay for it. Also, pay the writers you promote for doing a service to you? Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 13:23 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 13:18
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I think this might end up being a bigger thing than Harper thinks, because of that stretch goal aspect. It really feels like a bait and switch to have those there, since stretch goals have traditionally been about funding ancillary items. It raises the question of what that money was for. It might also put him in violation of Kickstarter’s TOS.
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May 29, 2018 13:37
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That's true. There's been a ton of projects over the years that received intense backlash for reneging on stretch goals. I wonder if Harper can even account for where all the excess money went to if not for the stretch goal funding?
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May 29, 2018 14:12
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I found this on the G+ discussion from Harperquote:I'm totally willing to pay stretch goal authors if that will help them put the work on the top of their queue. I have zero problem doing that, even though that wasn't the original deal. Which, aside from the aggressiveness, seems really scummy. If people had been paid up front for their work... well, we still probably wouldn't have all the stretch goals since the SRD wasn't completed until like November 2017 but I imagine they would be coming out real quickly.
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May 29, 2018 14:18
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I think Harper fundamentally misunderstands the backlash he's getting right now. It stopped being about delivery/delays of the stretch goals the minute people understood the payment issue, and I don't think he's kept up.
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May 29, 2018 14:22
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It's a little surprising - although maybe it shouldn't be - that Harper seems shocked people work faster when they get paid for it.
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May 29, 2018 17:06
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"Wait, you thought the money from the stretch goals were going towards paying the people making the content? That's silly. You're silly."
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May 29, 2018 18:35
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I think Harper fundamentally misunderstands the backlash he's getting right now. It stopped being about delivery/delays of the stretch goals the minute people understood the payment issue, and I don't think he's kept up. Harper has also said he's worked for free for people before, though; he's probably in the mindset of RPG writing being basically a hobby you get beer money for and raise money for glossy hardbacks. And looking at the history of RPG writing, that's not an inexplicable, unconscionable take on how RPGs work.
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May 29, 2018 18:42
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spectralent posted:Harper has also said he's worked for free for people before, though; he's probably in the mindset of RPG writing being basically a hobby you get beer money for and raise money for glossy hardbacks. And looking at the history of RPG writing, that's not an inexplicable, unconscionable take on how RPGs work. Yes, friends do favors for each other in this sort of way - I've done it myself. But writing some copy or banging out some icons for free or on spec at short notice isn't the same as what happened here, and it's disappointing that Harper didn't see that.
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May 29, 2018 18:46
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spectralent posted:Harper has also said he's worked for free for people before, though; he's probably in the mindset of RPG writing being basically a hobby you get beer money for and raise money for glossy hardbacks. And looking at the history of RPG writing, that's not an inexplicable, unconscionable take on how RPGs work. yea I feel bad because he really doesn't seem like he's trying to be a scumbag here, he just seems to not understand that despite the history behind it most people in 2018 (rightly) don't actually view it as a hobby and actually, ya know, see it as their job, for which they expect to be paid. This is a mess of his doing since I'd absolutely argue if anything his own past of working for free should make him MORE likely to support paying workers, but this genuinely seems to be coming from a place of ignorance over malice/greed.
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May 29, 2018 18:48
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sexpig by night posted:yea I feel bad because he really doesn't seem like he's trying to be a scumbag here, he just seems to not understand that despite the history behind it most people in 2018 (rightly) don't actually view it as a hobby and actually, ya know, see it as their job, for which they expect to be paid. This is a mess of his doing since I'd absolutely argue if anything his own past of working for free should make him MORE likely to support paying workers, but this genuinely seems to be coming from a place of ignorance over malice/greed. I hope so. Here is hoping that he realises he might be making some errors here.
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May 29, 2018 18:54
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sexpig by night posted:yea I feel bad because he really doesn't seem like he's trying to be a scumbag here, he just seems to not understand that despite the history behind it most people in 2018 (rightly) don't actually view it as a hobby and actually, ya know, see it as their job, for which they expect to be paid. This is a mess of his doing since I'd absolutely argue if anything his own past of working for free should make him MORE likely to support paying workers, but this genuinely seems to be coming from a place of ignorance over malice/greed. The issue is, potentially, he did work for free just because he loved the game. RPGs are all about unpaid work and murky ownership of ideas*; there's a continuum from moderating a game, to homebrewing and writing supplementary material and making that available, to writing full hacks, to actually publishing RPGs and from that to publishing as a big-boy professional who considers RPG writing an occupation. That entire continuum is super murky and bumps against ideas of IP and professionalism in weird ways, even before we add in weird kickstarter culture**. This is an industry where people will buy one 20-ish pound book, or half that on a PDF, and then probably never touch it commercially again. I think that the writers should be getting a cut (or should own the spinoffs and get paid for them that way, whatever works), but I can also see how the environment of RPG writing doesn't make than an obvious thought even if you're in it as an industry. *and elves. *the idea that it's duplicitous to use stretch goal material that's going to be freely produced to push the game seems particularly weird given I thought it was commonly accepted that almost every kickstarter massively lies about it's initial outlay to draw people in and fund a stretch goal chain that pays for the actual product plus a few negligible-cost add-ons. I still remember the shitstorm over the skullgirls KS where they asked for enough to make a character on minimum wage and people called it extortionate.
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May 29, 2018 19:02
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spectralent posted:The issue is, potentially, he did work for free just because he loved the game. RPGs are all about unpaid work and murky ownership of ideas*; there's a continuum from moderating a game, to homebrewing and writing supplementary material and making that available, to writing full hacks, to actually publishing RPGs and from that to publishing as a big-boy professional who considers RPG writing an occupation. That entire continuum is super murky and bumps against ideas of IP and professionalism in weird ways, even before we add in weird kickstarter culture**. This is an industry where people will buy one 20-ish pound book, or half that on a PDF, and then probably never touch it commercially again. It does create a different response and path forward compared to someone doing it maliciously, but it's still really bad and needs to be fixed. spectralent posted:*the idea that it's duplicitous to use stretch goal material that's going to be freely produced to push the game seems particularly weird given I thought it was commonly accepted that almost every kickstarter massively lies about it's initial outlay to draw people in and fund a stretch goal chain that pays for the actual product plus a few negligible-cost add-ons. I still remember the shitstorm over the skullgirls KS where they asked for enough to make a character on minimum wage and people called it extortionate. So, no, it's not in any way "commonly accepted" that KickStarters lie about their initial outlay and I frankly no idea how you came to that conclusion. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 19:12
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Relatedly I've kind of wondered how RPGs should even work as an industry; indie PC and mobile games work because you get a massive market by publishing on steam or a mobile app store. You can be Lisa or Stardew on Steam and sell hundreds of thousands of copies, but most RPGs are doing well if there's four digits in their sales figure. Books are in a similar position, but book publishers fund books that move a hundred copies by having a few long-runners or known authors who're going to rake it in to fund the search for new Harry Potters (and, last I heard, weren't doing great either). Professionalism in the RPG industry would be fantastic if at least for getting people to handle forums who aren't constantly chomping on their own foot, but it's also hard to see how there's a path for that when writing RPGs is never going to be a proper source of income. I wouldn't want to be part of a hobby that made me wear a tie. I feel like ultimately it's going to need books that cost more (RPGs have easily the best money/entertainment time ratio of anything if you're into them) or writers banding together. I guess what I'm saying is unionise RPGs.
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May 29, 2018 19:16
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spectralent posted:I can also see how the environment of RPG writing doesn't make than an obvious thought even if you're in it as an industry. I don't see what you're seeing. The norm in every industry is that you're paid for work you do on something that is eventually sold. It is unquestionably an Obvious Thought.
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May 29, 2018 19:17
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spectralent posted:(RPGs have easily the best money/entertainment time ratio of anything if you're into them)
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May 29, 2018 19:21
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Comrade Gorbash posted:That in no way is how stretch goals are supposed to work, and is exactly why there was a shitstorm about the Skullgirls KS. A lot of KickStarters routinely misjudge costs, especially of stretch goals, but as someone who's worked with several creators, the scenario you describe is not typical and is exploitative in the cases where it happens. Almost every non-RPG kickstarter I'm aware of seems suspiciously cheap for it's initial funding, and has a massive chain of stretch goals; miniatures games usually moreso than board games, but I see it there, too. And I can rephrase as commonly known, but it seems to be how it works. Yeah, it's exploitative of the system to do so, but I wasn't making a value judgement, and consider the response to the Skullgirls KS, and indeed to other similar KSes that are "overpriced", to be proof that people want to be tricked in that way. I think if you asked them, people would say they don't want to be tricked and that to do so is exploitative, but I've also previously seen that people do, in fact, scream on forums and refuse to pledge if they feel overcharged. Part of this is because kickstarter is ridiculously non-transparent and has no enforcement mechanisms, and treats investors like gamblers, also. It does seem to be the system that's emerged.
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May 29, 2018 19:21
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homullus posted:I don't see what you're seeing. The norm in every industry is that you're paid for work you do on something that is eventually sold. It is unquestionably an Obvious Thought. I don't think an awful lot of people consider effort spent on RPGs to be work done in an industry. I mean hell, look how many people put expansions or entire games online for free, and are happy they get comments back. The only time I put an RPG up I was ecstatic someone played it. I would love that those people get paid, but I can also see how if you do that you might not think "Oh, I should pay these people who've done other work for me". Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is this actually true? It's definitely true of books I use at the table, but for me that's a fraction of the books I've bought or read. I think if anything for they suffer because successfully using a book is something that often happens in the months after something has come out. By the time there's something to review from the perspective of someone whose run it, the moment's gone and it's not going to drive sales much further unless you are a really big name. I dunno about sales; I think you're right that it's an unfortunate side effect of how RPGs work that word of mouth is usually way too late. That's probably a major area that kickstarters help with. But I mean, personally? Several RPGs I downloaded for free (see above) provided me with over a year of regular, incredibly fun evening games. If my maths is correct that's an infinity percent return on investment. My library's probably running close to a thousand quid or more, sure, but that's also over ten years of regular gaming at this point. It's easily the best thing I do with my money, at least from a perspective of living a happy life. Comparatively I've bought £40-50 games and realised they sucked or hit the end four hours in and been left with achievement farming. A cinema ticket is like £12 now, before you grab food and drink, and even fantastic films are about an hour and a half to two hours long. EDIT: And I do just want to be clear I don't think it's good that he's not paid any of his writers, and I hope that now it's pointed out, he will, but I also don't think this is an industry where it's impossible to claim ignorance, because it's a real poo poo industry. spectralent fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 19:28
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