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HitTheTargets posted:Hot take: Bethesda could put together a decent story if a) they come up with something more original than "[family member] is missing" and b) they commit to telling ONLY that story without open-worlding it to death. No one actually wants that 
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May 31, 2018 01:46
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Reveilled posted:Eh, i have strong memories of people arguing way back when the game came out that actually Caesar's legion had the right idea and that systems based on slavery and subjugation had a better track record in the more primitive environment of a post-apocalyptic world. Not even Caesar believes in The Legion. It's all an insane philosophical natural experiment in Hegelian Dialectics.
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May 31, 2018 01:46
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expect the murderhobo, then be that murderhobo. everything else is sophistry.
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May 31, 2018 01:48
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Bholder posted:Bethesda tends to have good ideas but horrible execution. Look, for all the justifiable complaining people do about Bethesda (myself included) they DO mostly manage to make games that are fun and engaging, even if they never quite live up to their full potential and have terrible main plot-lines. Fallout 4 was B-movie fun, if Fallout: 76 manages to be that level of entertaining I'll be happy (but will still nitpick it online, because that's also part of the fun of Bethesda Fallouts).
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May 31, 2018 01:51
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Wolfsheim posted:No one actually wants that yes they do EDIT
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May 31, 2018 01:55
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Sheen Sheen posted:
No, people want everything. They want the sprawling open world to explore, and a good story, and Bethesda so far only seems to manage one at a time, with the good story coming in smaller doses with rails like Far Harbor or Shivering Isles.
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May 31, 2018 01:58
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Sheen Sheen posted:
A non-open-world Fallout game? I didn't know we had actual Brotherhood of Steel fans posting, I put that one in the OP as a joke 
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May 31, 2018 02:00
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brought to you by bawls energy drink and slipknot
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May 31, 2018 02:01
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Sinteres posted:No, people want everything. They want the sprawling open world to explore, and a good story, and Bethesda so far only seems to manage one at a time, with the good story coming in smaller doses with rails like Far Harbor or Shivering Isles. Plenty of people realize that the occasional well-written DLC is not an adequate stand-in for an entire well-written game--it often just makes the lovely Vanilla part of the game more frustrating Far Harbor is very good, but it doesn't remotely compare to any part of Fallout New Vegas, on its own or combined with lovely Vanilla Fallout 4 And besides--if Bethesda is only able to do one good thing at a time when making video games, maybe they should turn the Fallout series over to a company that has proven multiple times that they can make an all-encompassing good Fallout game that doesn't solely rely on people being eternally wow'd over the simple act of leaving a vault
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May 31, 2018 02:12
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Wolfsheim posted:A non-open-world Fallout game? I didn't know we had actual Brotherhood of Steel fans posting, I put that one in the OP as a joke There is no  big enough to respond to this post
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May 31, 2018 02:14
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What makes it weirder is Bethesda has no problems doing Elder Scrolls games with an anonymous protagonist and non-personal story. It’s only Fallout where they try to do family quests with pre-developed characters.
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May 31, 2018 02:18
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Sheen Sheen posted:There is no It is the last time we had a multiplayer Fallout game. Also the last, curiously enough.
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May 31, 2018 02:23
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Sheen Sheen posted:There is no You could probably find one if you really put your heart into it  But my point is more that even the holy trilogy of F1/2/NV were all open world games and would be markedly worse without those aspects. The only one that really even has a good solid main plot is New Vegas, F1 is pretty straightforward and basic and most of the best parts of F2 are entirely superfluous to anything involving finding a GECK or blowing up the Enclave. Despite any caterwauling about their tragic failures Bethesda is very good at making you want to explore an open world, even if the shine wear off somewhere between 5-100 hours. Its literally the thing they're best at, and outside of fantasies of Todd Howard permanently signing over the rights to Obsidian before committing honorable seppuku they're gonna keep making Fallout games for the foreseeable future, so I'd prefer they refine that experience than try their hand at reinventing the wheel.
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May 31, 2018 02:25
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chitoryu12 posted:What makes it weirder is Bethesda has no problems doing Elder Scrolls games with an anonymous protagonist and non-personal story. It’s only Fallout where they try to do family quests with pre-developed characters. Even weirder is that F1/2/NV all totally go the anonymous protagonist route, with the exception of a few minor details. I have no idea why Bethesda looked at that and went "hmm, yes, give them a spouse, child, and extremely rigid personal history in this one." 'Random guy shows up to solve problems' is literally the Bethesda formula and would've worked fine in 3/4, I have no idea why they feel like they need to go against the grain.
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May 31, 2018 02:30
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Wolfsheim posted:Even weirder is that F1/2/NV all totally go the anonymous protagonist route, with the exception of a few minor details. I have no idea why Bethesda looked at that and went "hmm, yes, give them a spouse, child, and extremely rigid personal history in this one." This is why I never got into Fallout 3/4 as much as the other games and I feel dumb because it didn't dawn on me until now. Just let me be faceless dude with no clear motivations or bonds then let poo poo happen to me while I check out the world. It's fun deciding who you are and what's important to you in these kinds of games beyond choosing happy or angery react to things.
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May 31, 2018 02:33
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So how about that Rage 2
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May 31, 2018 02:35
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The issue is they left the anonymous world with a pre-defined character. If they want to pre-define everything thats fine, but they have to go The Witcher route and really put effort into a concrete back story that you take part in, rather than create yourself.
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May 31, 2018 02:36
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Wolfsheim posted:Even weirder is that F1/2/NV all totally go the anonymous protagonist route, with the exception of a few minor details. I have no idea why Bethesda looked at that and went "hmm, yes, give them a spouse, child, and extremely rigid personal history in this one." you know how in hollywood they always need to have a love interest and often have some family drama like father issues. its the same reason here. a lot of people relate to that so lazy story writers just put these things from a checklist to try to get as much appeal as possible.
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May 31, 2018 02:36
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Iretep posted:you know how in hollywood they always need to have a love interest and often have some family drama like father issues. its the same reason here. a lot of people relate to that so lazy story writers just put these things from a checklist to try to get as much appeal as possible. What if you could choose in the game to have sex with a lady and have a baby, then the baby got eaten by a super mutant? Now that's motivation.
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May 31, 2018 02:41
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Wolfsheim posted:Even weirder is that F1/2/NV all totally go the anonymous protagonist route, with the exception of a few minor details. I have no idea why Bethesda looked at that and went "hmm, yes, give them a spouse, child, and extremely rigid personal history in this one." Except not really. In all fallouts you are given a certain backstory. You are from Vault 13/the descendent of the last MC/a courier, then you are given a personalised motivation for the first half of the game. You need to find a waterchip/ a geck/ that rear end in a top hat Benny. You are pretty much forced to follow up on these to progress (maybe less so in New Vegas)
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May 31, 2018 02:42
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Sinteres posted:No, people want everything. They want the sprawling open world to explore, and a good story, and Bethesda so far only seems to manage one at a time, with the good story coming in smaller doses with rails like Far Harbor or Shivering Isles. The idea that the game needs to have everything is exactly what I'm saying is ruining it. They've tried being all games to all players, and it was a muddled mess of crafting & settlements. So yes, at this point what I want is a focused experience. Edit: Or let me roll a Ghoul and stop trying to shove any story down my throat. But it has to be one or the other. HitTheTargets fucked around with this message at 02:45 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 02:43
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JBP posted:What if you could choose in the game to have sex with a lady and have a baby, then the baby got eaten by a super mutant? Now that's motivation. Is this a dwarf fortress mod?
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May 31, 2018 02:50
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Wolfsheim posted:You could probably find one if you really put your heart into it I mean, I figured that "not open-worlding it to death" as written in the original quoted post meant that a game would be somewhat more focused in its scope story-wise while still having a good degree of open-worldness, a la the best Fallout games (1, 2, NV, and 3 to a lesser degree, but decidedly not 4). I think one of us (probably you) completely missed the point of the original post. Besides, I don't have too much faith in Bethesda "gaining experience" in making better Fallout games--if that was the case, then they probably wouldn't be moving away from 3 and NV in favor of doubling down on the worst aspects of 4 (base-building without some sort of gameplay incentives, probably) and cramming in lovely survival/battle royale elements or whatever don't everyone get their panties in a bunch, I'm still going to wait for the e3 demo to make further judgments of 76 (though I'm not keeping my hopes up) (Also Bethesda has failed miserably in the exploration aspect--if you want to stop exploring a $60 open-world game after 5 hours, which was largely the case with Fallout 4 when I played it, then the game is on the same level as Mass Effect Andromeda)
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May 31, 2018 02:51
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Iretep posted:you know how in hollywood they always need to have a love interest and often have some family drama like father issues. its the same reason here. a lot of people relate to that so lazy story writers just put these things from a checklist to try to get as much appeal as possible. Man, did ANYBODY care about the Shawn plot though? Because I could not give two shits about it, and everyone I've talked to feels the same way. I guess it's just hard to get super attached to a fake baby, don't get me wrong I like real babies just fine, but fake babies are honestly really boring: can't talk, no personality, looks like an soulless doll...not a lot going for that kid.
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May 31, 2018 02:53
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Bholder posted:Except not really. Ehhhh kinda but only in the same sense that you're not truly a blank slate in an Elder Scrolls because you're always a prisoner and you have to talk to Cauis Cosades/go talk to Sean Bean priest guy/look into this dragon business to progress. But that's just splitting hairs, and 'you are a person from Vault 13' is a world of difference away from 'you are the 19 year-old child of James the friendly widower scientist who helped the BoS with a water project several years ago, left them to keep you safe and was eventually chased out of Vault 101 by the power-mad Overseer and you are now going to find him and help him get his project up and running again.'
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May 31, 2018 02:54
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Bholder posted:Except not really. That’s still pretty minimal. The Elder Scrolls games set you as a “chosen one” with no real personality, and the Fallout games at best gave you a small amount of backstory as to where you came from before letting you decide what your personality (and in the case of New Vegas, some prior history) would be. Fallout 3 and 4 both give you extensive prologue content that serves to establish a personality and desires. Don’t want your PC to give a poo poo about their missing family member? Too bad, virtually every dialogue option in the main quest areas will be about it and there’s no option to tell your dad “gently caress you, I’m helping the Enclave”.
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May 31, 2018 02:55
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pretty sure you've got a mom, a bitchy aunt and a cousin in 2, they just don't matter might not even have dialogue.
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May 31, 2018 02:57
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In Elder Scrolls: Arena you have a full backstory
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May 31, 2018 03:00
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I can't believe we're on the 76th Fallout already.
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May 31, 2018 03:04
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Bholder posted:Except not really. These are nowhere near comparable in how they constrict the player to giving you a family that you have to care about.
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May 31, 2018 03:07
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Azhais posted:Is this a dwarf fortress mod? Only if the woman gives birth in the middle of a battle and then clubs several Super Mutants to death with the baby.
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May 31, 2018 03:08
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chitoryu12 posted:That’s still pretty minimal. The Elder Scrolls games set you as a “chosen one” with no real personality, and the Fallout games at best gave you a small amount of backstory as to where you came from before letting you decide what your personality (and in the case of New Vegas, some prior history) would be. In defence of Fallout 3, you actually play through the extensive prologue to give a poo poo about your family member. My point was that you cannot actually say "gently caress you, I'm not helping" in other fallout games either (maybe in Fallout 1, where you get a unique game over screen if you join the Master). Fallout 4 backstory definitely could've done better (longer prologue, actual choices in the beginning, or everyone's favourite: fake memories, you were a synth all along) but I don't see pre-definied backstories as something that would really limit you in roleplaying. The best example to this is Baldur's Gate where you really get an elaborate backstory that's even important to the plot, yet you can still freely roleplay anyone you want.
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May 31, 2018 03:12
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Azhais posted:Fallout 76 is actually about the Philadelphia 76'ers oh poo poo. all that mess about Brian Coangelo was the start of an ARG???
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May 31, 2018 03:13
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I'm still kind of mad that Ultima Online effectively killed Ultima. I know it's different publishers and studios, I'm just butthurt about it still. I play plenty of games online that didn't have a butchered single player mode, though. Need more info but the bar is set super low for this one.
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May 31, 2018 03:15
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Wolfsheim posted:A non-open-world Fallout game? I didn't know we had actual Brotherhood of Steel fans posting, I put that one in the OP as a joke This was, no joke, my first introduction to the Fallout series and was the first one I beat. I liked it.
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May 31, 2018 03:16
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I'm still kind of mad that Ultima Online effectively killed Ultima. Pretty sure it was Ultima 9 that killed Ultima. Or EA... same thing really.
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May 31, 2018 03:18
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I'm still kind of mad that Ultima Online effectively killed Ultima. Buddy, you gotta let that baggage go.
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May 31, 2018 03:20
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whichever number ultima: pagan was killed the series. that thing was a piece of poo poo. crusader was dope though.
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May 31, 2018 03:22
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Man, did ANYBODY care about the Shawn plot though? Because I could not give two shits about it, and everyone I've talked to feels the same way. I would have minded it less if they gave you some more neutral voicelines but your character has to either be furious or desperate and it forces attention back to the backstory I'm trying to ignore/grind through One small saving grace in the story is that you can just just sneak-fatman-crit-kellog without having that dumb conversation with him again
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May 31, 2018 03:34
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A lot of Fallout 4's problems come down to them really wanting to do fully voiced protagonist.
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May 31, 2018 03:39
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