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So for Malthael, his Last Rites ult damage is reduced by armor? Seems kinda dumb for a guy that is supposed to be good at killing tanks. Or at least I ulted Garrosh when he had less than 25% health, and it did nothing.
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May 30, 2018 06:20
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Last rites (should at least, unless it is bugged) ignore armor.
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May 30, 2018 08:30
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Hanzo had a poo poo wr before they nerfed him. I can't imagine what its like now. I could see taking down his range a touch, but now he seems in the greymane graveyard. Fake edit: just checked hotslogs, 41.7%, below diablo.
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May 30, 2018 16:29
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My understanding of Hanzo is that A) you kinda have to build a team around him and B) he's super hard to play safely. Like is damage is outrageous but nobody you're going to encounter in quick play is going to be able to do anything but feed with him.
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May 30, 2018 16:37
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fool_of_sound posted:My understanding of Hanzo is that A) you kinda have to build a team around him and B) he's super hard to play safely. Like is damage is outrageous but nobody you're going to encounter in quick play is going to be able to do anything but feed with him. That used to be true. He already had a super low winrate in general. Then they made him worse.
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May 30, 2018 16:38
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Erdricks posted:That used to be true. He already had a super low winrate in general. Then they made him worse. That's a product of a super high skill floor though. While it's bad design, it's not cause the character is underpowered. e: Seriously just check out the win percentage differences by league tier. fool of sound fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 16:42
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He can play very safely, havent had trouble with a feeding hanzo. The problem is that unless you can actually hit scatter arrows you're not doing anything. It's just like old hanzo in overwatch, just sitting back and missing everything (including his ult, I've had hanzos who hit dragon arrow zero times).
No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 16:46
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It was incredibly important that they nerfed hanzo's range because as he was he was making O'l Jimmy's passive a liar and Jimmy is not a liar
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May 30, 2018 16:50
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No Wave posted:He can play very safely, havent had trouble with a feeding hanzo. The problem is that unless you can actually hit scatter arrows you're not doing anything. It's just like old hanzo in overwatch, just sitting back and missing everything (including his ult, I've had hanzos who hit dragon arrow zero times).
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May 30, 2018 16:59
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fool_of_sound posted:That's a product of a super high skill floor though. While it's bad design, it's not cause the character is underpowered. Check out win percentage differences by league tier? Did you do that before posting? He jumps to an awesome 43% in diamond+master and just diamond. Lowest win rate in everything.
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May 30, 2018 17:43
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Erdricks posted:Check out win percentage differences by league tier? Did you do that before posting? He jumps to an awesome 43% in diamond+master and just diamond. Lowest win rate in everything. Uh, he's 47% in master league, 43% in diamond, 39% in plat, and 34% in gold/silver. There's a really clear skill floor phenomenon there. I'd be willing to bet in actual tournament matches he jumps over 50%.
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May 30, 2018 18:14
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I'll have you know Hanzo has over 50% winrate If you filter by Master -> Cursed Hollow map only e: also Team League -> Master + Diamond + Plat -> BoE and ToD. I had to include 3 tiers of ranks because there were too few games with any of them individually to be significant. BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 19:00 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 18:57
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47% is still pretty terrible and master is such a slim section in the first place. Do you really think Blizzard does balancing solely for HGC or something? Fake edit: nothing wrong with high skill cap heroes, but a hero that is absolute trash except at the professional level is a trap for the rest of the game and not healthy overall, especially for one that is so iconic. Medivh is a good example of this and see what they did to bring him up lately. Erdricks fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 23:14
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I agree, I called him poorly designed and broken in HGC from the outset. Blizzard does balance very actively for the esports they dump millions of dollars into, but it doesnt bother me because heroes that are op at high skill levels are usually obnoxious to play against (I despised pre-nerf tassadar). Ideally they would give the genji/tracer treatment to both hanzo and tassadar, but how exactly they would want to accomplish that is beyond me.
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May 30, 2018 23:26
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I don't have anything against high skill caps, but tracer and genji were never in the gutter hanzo is in. IIRC, hanzo had overall winrates in the same range as pre rework tracer and genji and got knocked down a massive amount. Now he is high skill cap with less payoff and the numbers reflect that.
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May 30, 2018 23:33
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Oh no, Hanzo isn't OP anymore, the horror. Buff Valla and Raynor pls blizz.
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May 30, 2018 23:51
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hanzo was never op. dont believe the reddit lies.
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May 31, 2018 00:39
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Erdricks posted:Fake edit: nothing wrong with high skill cap heroes, but a hero that is absolute trash except at the professional level is a trap for the rest of the game and not healthy overall, especially for one that is so iconic. Medivh is a good example of this and see what they did to bring him up lately. Yeah I def agree with this, Hanzo's skill floor is waaaay too high.
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May 31, 2018 01:10
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Hanzo's design is terrible and we are richer for having lost him
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May 31, 2018 01:30
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Erdricks posted:hanzo was never op. dont believe the reddit lies. Yeah you don't need to read reddit to know Hanzo needed nerfs, sorry
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May 31, 2018 01:37
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E: double post ignore
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May 31, 2018 02:10
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As bad as Hanzo is for most people who want to shoot ninja dragon arrow, watching him in the hands of a skilled player is terrifying. Grubby plays him in euro GM sometimes, and he is very powerful there. Kala has been using him heavily to climb NA on his coach account, and had a high winrate on him. It seems like leveraging the power of his kit involves pushing safety a lot via map awareness, sonic arrow, and use of D to escape a lot of danger. I am not that good, so Hanzo seems like a poor choice. If I were good, I see the appeal.
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May 31, 2018 02:10
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Again, only good in the hands of literal professionals = problems He didn't need to eat nerfs that severe merely because pros are capable of cheesing scatter arrow, which they didn't even really fix. Hanzo is just in a pretty horrible spot and the fact a handful of pros can still cheese him doesn't change that. Erdricks fucked around with this message at 02:28 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 02:25
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Erdricks posted:Again, only good in the hands of literal professionals = problems Why is this a problem? Having heroes for players across the skill spectrum is fine. Is it a problem that Widowmaker is only good for pros in Overwatch? Dota 2 has plenty of this and no one complains.
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May 31, 2018 02:37
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Because Blizzard has come out and said that they want all heroes to be generally viable and are looking for win rates in the 48-52% range? Because Hanzo didn't start out/wasn't sold that way, which is lovely for people who bought the character and then got nerfed to trash for the overwhelming majority of the game's population? The problem isn't that he has a high skill cap, is that his floor is now way too high and the reward for putting in that effort is just not equivalent. No one bitches about Abathur.
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May 31, 2018 02:53
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The only problem is going by winrates alone isn't a good approach. There are many heroes in League who basically require you to one-trick them to be good. Just because a hero's winrate is 40% doesn't mean it's bad.
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May 31, 2018 03:03
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Hanzo being able to poke from farther than literally everyone other than Chrome and Hanzo was terrible, especially since he outshadowed Valla, Raynor, and Greymane in every way. Scatter Arrow being able to demolish monsters and minions and even Boss faster than anyone else is unhealthy. His Q being able to melt waves with that 100% AOE wasn't good either, try being a melee character inside or next to your wave clearing theirs and getting chunked for half hp.
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May 31, 2018 03:17
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Erdricks posted:Again, only good in the hands of literal professionals = problems If you want to look at the numbers in more detail, hero level (like mastery portrait levels) 20+ hanzos have a 48% win rate, and level 20+ abathurs have a 48.5% winrate. One of these heroes has been out for years however so the proportion of level 20s to level 5s is different. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:30 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 03:28
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lucifirius posted:Hanzo being able to poke from farther than literally everyone other than Chrome and Hanzo was terrible, especially since he outshadowed Valla, Raynor, and Greymane in every way. Scatter Arrow being able to demolish monsters and minions and even Boss faster than anyone else is unhealthy. His Q being able to melt waves with that 100% AOE wasn't good either, try being a melee character inside or next to your wave clearing theirs and getting chunked for half hp. Yeah, for a while there if you were playing any ranged AA that wasn't Hanzo you were doing it wrong. He had some of the highest AA damage in the game, with some of the highest range for both AA and abilities, that could also decimate waves/mercs/bosses, all with a pretty reliable escape.
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May 31, 2018 04:43
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lucifirius posted:Hanzo being able to poke from farther than literally everyone other than Chrome and Hanzo was terrible, especially since he outshadowed Valla, Raynor, and Greymane in every way. Scatter Arrow being able to demolish monsters and minions and even Boss faster than anyone else is unhealthy. His Q being able to melt waves with that 100% AOE wasn't good either, try being a melee character inside or next to your wave clearing theirs and getting chunked for half hp. I said a while ago, and still believe, that most of the problems with Hanzo aren't due to his baseline kit except maybe, maybe an innate 7.5 range AA, but the fact that he had so many ridiculous talents that let him paper over what might otherwise be deficiencies or weaknesses and replace them with strengths. Explosive Arrow, for example, took a character with slow, single target AA and gave them really good waveclear plus splash damage on heroes. Why? Why did he need the ability to do dumb Scatter Arrow CDR combos to 100-0 NPCs faster than any other character in the game? Baseline Hanzo is a character with some long range single-target poke, a skillshot that actually does take practice to get good with, and an escape that he can't (or shouldn't) really engage with, which in my inexpert opinion is fine, but his talent design lends itself to a lot of poo poo that it shouldn't. Compare this to something like Maiev, who came into the game with 10 armor baseline on top of a much shorter cooldown on her own personal mini iceblock on top of having a teleport that also doubles as an engagement on top of CC lockdown on top of a multi-hit ability with a short cooldown etc. etc. to the point where some players were winning games with her without even bothering to pick talents because she was just that good right out of the gate.
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May 31, 2018 06:24
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Hanzo had a really lovely movement bug for like a month or two when he was released that prevented me from being anything other than garbage with him when I tried to learn him. I wonder if that factors into his lousy win rate.
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May 31, 2018 06:36
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So how do you Lunara? I play against her and she somehow does real high damage. But I play her and Illidan just trashes me, Hanzo trashes me, can't do anything and she does no damage? edit: nm team was just super bad What's the deal with Abathur mirror matches? Like randomly every qm game is Aba mirrors...Is he that popular? appropriatemetaphor fucked around with this message at 08:51 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 07:48
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appropriatemetaphor posted:So how do you Lunara? I play against her and she somehow does real high damage. But I play her and Illidan just trashes me, Hanzo trashes me, can't do anything and she does no damage? Abathur: 24.1% Tyrande: 20.5% Tassadar 9.1% Medivh: 7.7% So there are a LOT of Aba vs Tyrande matches and more Aba mirrors than most heroes. It's possible they've turned down the matchmaker's tendency to avoid mirror matches.
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May 31, 2018 10:48
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WOW! A legendary from my loot box! Oh, the demon skin for Junkrat? Rad! Oh WOW! A SECOND LEGENDARY? Oh, it's a recolour of the skin I just got 2 seconds ago? Rad...? Something's hosed up with Blizzard's RNG. There was a string where I pulled the same ugly-rear end Muradin skin, the same two portrait icons and the same spray several times from either direct chests or rerolls. Erdricks posted:Hanzo had a poo poo wr before they nerfed him. I can't imagine what its like now. I could see taking down his range a touch, but now he seems in the greymane graveyard. I mean I kinda get it that if pro players are picking a character constantly and just absolutely clowning on motherfuckers with it, there's probably something wrong with the character. But at the same time, if you balance around pros and pro premade teams, you'll probably ruin a lot of heroes for people who are not pros, nor get to play on premade teams. This is more in general, because it seems Blizzard frequently reacts to poo poo that happens on the pro circuit even if a character is OK / underperforming in pub games. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 14:09 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 14:06
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In non-Hanzo news: https://clips.twitch.tv/ElegantCulturedDragonfruitMingLee Li-Ming briefly loses vision of Jaina as she circles to the objective, then back down to the mid bush
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May 31, 2018 14:10
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Der Shovel posted:WOW! A legendary from my loot box! Oh, the demon skin for Junkrat? Rad! I got the same portry in the same chest, too bad the screenshot button doesn't work outside the actual gameplay
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May 31, 2018 16:02
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Der Shovel posted:I mean I kinda get it that if pro players are picking a character constantly and just absolutely clowning on motherfuckers with it, there's probably something wrong with the character. But at the same time, if you balance around pros and pro premade teams, you'll probably ruin a lot of heroes for people who are not pros, nor get to play on premade teams. I agree with the argument that Tassadar and Hanzo are turds at most levels of play and that most players would be better off if these characters were given the genji treatment. I don't have sympathy for the argument that Tassadar and Hanzo should be buffed until they're broken if played optimally so that worse players don't have to be very good to win with the broken heroes.
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May 31, 2018 16:42
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Der Shovel posted:
They don't just balance around pros though. Part of their problem is that they have to serve too many masters. They've nerfed Murky and Nova based on Quickmatch; Hanzo, Tassadar, Medivh have all had periods where they were viable to overpowered at pro play and trash everywhere else; Rexxar can't be buffed to make him viable at pro-level because Master/Diamond win rate on ladder is pushing too high.
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May 31, 2018 16:57
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 brawl lasted an hour i wanna die
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May 31, 2018 17:43
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5 rare loot chests from Twitch Prime. Wooo. And they are event chests! Edit: Apparently there is a delay between claiming them on twitch and getting them in Bnet. 
ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 18:01 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 17:52
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