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Let's take a step back and ignore the brain worms for a bit. pigdog's analogy works. The problem with organizing to punch islamists in the face (other than the fruitlessness) is that it's political suicide on the left and center. Eventually you will punch a guy who just wants muslim public holidays, or at least someone who can fool people that he just wants that. Now you are the nazi. Then you can melt down while arguing that the left and the center are a lost cause of islamist sympathizers anyway and you don't need them.
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May 25, 2018 18:13
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| # ? May 9, 2024 18:24 |
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Clearly the Swedes should have shot their Nazis after the war.
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May 25, 2018 19:06
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Rust Martialis posted:Clearly the Swedes should have shot their Nazis after the war. They didn't even shoot nazis during the war.
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May 25, 2018 19:08
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Alhazred posted:They didn't even shoot nazis during the war. Yeah but they could have joined in once it was over, part score.
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May 25, 2018 19:35
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Just a heads up (sorry!), that video by the Olly kid is not a balanced take on the phenomenon, it is ideological apologism. I've seen quite a few of his vids and he is far left himself. Which is fine, if you are still in your teens, just be aware of what it is. I would perhaps suggest you instead listen someone smart on the subject, such as Chomsky. Chomsky, 2017 posted:"As for Antifa, it's a minuscule fringe of the Left, just as its predecessors were," Noam Chomsky told the Washington Examiner. "It's a major gift to the Right, including the militant Right, who are exuberant." Also lol, even Chomsky had to sneak in that antifa is a bit limp-wristed.
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May 25, 2018 19:54
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Rnr posted:Just a heads up (sorry!), that video by the Olly kid is not a balanced take on the phenomenon, it is ideological apologism. I've seen quite a few of his vids and he is far left himself. Which is fine, if you are still in your teens, just be aware of what it is. I'd honestly rather listen to something that has experienced right wing violence firsthand: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/meninger/i/Gky4l/kronikk-terror-ikke-gjengoppgjoer
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May 25, 2018 20:17
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lolling pretty hard right now at the dude who comes here and starts complaining about supposed ideological biases and then tries to pass off arch-liberal Noam loving Chomsky as an objective voice.
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May 25, 2018 20:32
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I was expecting him to say Jordan Peterson tho.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 21:08
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Good thing bloc politics is dead and bipartisan initiatives like teaching one-year-old ghetto residents about democracy and "Danish values" for 25 hours a week in forced daycare without naptime are now possible, and also parents lose childcare benefits if they don't do it. Freedom marches on! https://www.information.dk/telegram/2018/05/boern-udsatte-omraader-tvungen-vuggestue
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May 28, 2018 16:26
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Sure, use their children as weapons in your malicious quest to be.. Malicious for the heck of it. And for the Fascist votes, I guess.
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May 28, 2018 18:46
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Ah yes, democracy gulags what could go wrong.
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May 28, 2018 19:04
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NMR's Danish chapter dumped garbage at a Minister's house. The authorities are taking this threat very seriously. But can we be sure that it's not just another art installation by Dan Park that in fact belongs in Christiansborg?Lima posted:Ah yes, democracy gulags what could go wrong. Well, according to the Social Democrats, the only thing wrong with it is that they can't force it upon all poor people.
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May 29, 2018 01:09
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Free translation for hospital patients to be nixed. However, don't despair, it will include special provisions for Greenlanders, Faroese and the German minority. Social Democrats voted for, of course. https://politiken.dk/indland/politik/art6546148/Regeringen-vil-indf%C3%B8re-gebyr-p%C3%A5-1.675-kr.-for-at-bruge-tolk-p%C3%A5-hospitalet
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May 30, 2018 16:53
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SplitSoul posted:Free translation for hospital patients to be nixed. However, don't despair, it will include special provisions for Greenlanders, Faroese and the German minority. Social Democrats voted for, of course. Is the goal to stop people who aren’t danish citizens from going to the hospital? This makes little sense to me. Aren’t there people legally allowed to be in the country who don’t speak Danish?
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May 30, 2018 17:00
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Dirk Pitt posted:Is the goal to stop people who aren’t danish citizens from going to the hospital? This makes little sense to me. Aren’t there people legally allowed to be in the country who don’t speak Danish?
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May 30, 2018 17:21
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Dirk Pitt posted:Is the goal to stop people who aren’t danish citizens from going to the hospital? This makes little sense to me. Aren’t there people legally allowed to be in the country who don’t speak Danish? Yes, but if they don't speak it well enough after three years to understand serious and often technical conversations about the state of their health, they have to pay an amount that's literally 44% of the monthly special reduced welfare for immigrants and refugees. They really, really, really want these people dead.
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May 30, 2018 18:57
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1: Make sure immigrants can't get proper healthcare. 2: Get upset over all these immigrants too sick to be productive to society. Danmark delenda est.
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May 30, 2018 19:40
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Dirk Pitt posted:Is the goal to stop people who aren’t danish citizens from going to the hospital? This makes little sense to me. Aren’t there people legally allowed to be in the country who don’t speak Danish? The stated goal is to pressure immigrants into learning the local language inside of the first 3 years. SplitSoul posted:Yes, but if they don't speak it well enough after three years to understand serious and often technical conversations about the state of their health, they have to pay an amount that's literally 44% of the monthly special reduced welfare for immigrants and refugees. They really, really, really want these people dead. In my previous job as a department head, I hired several immigrants (even muslims, gasp!). It was my experience that everyone I hired, learned Danish in a matter of months. Sure, those were people on an already high educational level, but searching for other experiences online, it seems to be around that for everyone, perhaps slightly more. 3 years should be sufficient. On one hand I deeply dislike the added bureaucracy of this law, and I dislike pressuring people on health matters, on the other it is good to ask more of immigrants. My pensioner father teaches immigrants English and Danish for free in his spare evenings. His experience is that some of them could definitely use a kick in the rear end, so they could actually put in the work required, frustrating though it may be. I know that doesn't exactly fit with a victim narrative, but perhaps we shouldn't be cultivating those anyhow...
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May 30, 2018 20:06
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would probably be better to actually work on integration rather than just punishing people for not doing something you're not otherwise accommodating imo as you say, most people who work with a language will generally learn it to an acceptable degree fairly quickly, but the conclusion to that premise seems to be some sort of work placement scheme, not denying people information about their health
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May 30, 2018 20:14
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one major issue is that whenever we make incentives for immigrants they seem pig-headedly miserly and punitive. this is not a sound procedure and is only going to further alienate those people to whom it applies, probably at the cost of some unnecessary deaths. it's bad policy for the problem at hand
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May 30, 2018 20:18
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Integration is easy, get a job and learn the language. It is literally how it works in the whole world when it comes to integration. The issue at least in Sweden is that most immigrants lack the education and the amount of low skill jobs are steadily decreasing and thus the difficulties of integration increase. The numbers speak for themselves with 50% of the immigrants have some form of employment after 8 years, where one hour a week counts as employment. The incentive to get a job with these difficulties and a social welfare system where you have a better life on welfare than your original country must be rather hard.
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May 30, 2018 20:58
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not sure i buy the feckless foreigners narrative tbh social issues are practically never helpfully analysed through individual attributes - again, while there are certainly issues culturally(e.g. high-caste somali women being reluctant to work), 'they don't want to work because they've got it too good' is a really iffy argument which i doubt you can seriously justify also 'immigrants' is a very very vague category, it might be helpful to specify somewhat
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May 30, 2018 21:11
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Cardiac posted:Integration is easy
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May 30, 2018 21:49
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Cardiac posted:The issue at least in Sweden is that most immigrants lack the education and the amount of low skill jobs are steadily decreasing and thus the difficulties of integration increase. Aside from language difficulties, another reason is that a lot of degrees aren't recognised by the state. The cafeteria guy at my previous school was an astrophysicist. I've also met a cabbie who was a Ph.D. in mathematics. My mom worked with a doctor who was wiping old people's asses for a living. Also, a good part of these people are going to be refugees from active warzones, so maybe that's worth figuring into the equation somehow.
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May 30, 2018 22:19
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Rnr posted:The stated goal is to pressure immigrants into learning the local language inside of the first 3 years. Is your dad a bigoted rear end in a top hat too? That might be why he thinks they're just lazy.
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May 30, 2018 23:13
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I thought it was the Somali women who worked since the men were high on khat? Somali is btw one of the hardest to integrate where one reason is how many can’t read, something essential to be able to work in Sweden. The numbers for Somalis is really depressing. As for degrees, in 2015 fast tracks to verify degrees were put in motion but with as far as I have understood disappointing results. The high-degree doctor being a taxi driver is to a large extent an urban myth. A clear majority of the immigrants have little to none education, which their home countries census records also show. The degrees are also not worth much if you can’t communicate in the host country’s language. Finally, 8 years to find any form of employment is kinda bad. In that time you can basically do an entire bachelor-master-PhD. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 31, 2018 06:51
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Is your dad a bigoted rear end in a top hat too? That might be why he thinks they're just lazy. Can't you read? Literally step out into real life, just for a while, sheltered 30-something child. Between my dad and I, we've done more for integration in DK, than most others can claim. It sucks to actually take personal responsibility for something, but you should try it some time.
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May 31, 2018 07:19
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Well my dad can beat up your dad. So there.
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May 31, 2018 07:51
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KozmoNaut posted:Well my dad can beat up your dad. Not if he's deported he can't!
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May 31, 2018 08:20
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To momentarily interrupt the screeching: On previous pages, it was mentioned by some that we currently see unlikely political bedfellows across scandiland. A short opinion piece on DR makes the exact same point: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/videoanalyse-roed-og-blaa-blok-i-opbrud-praeger-afslutningsdebat In short: traditional left and right cannot agree amongst themselves, but on the other hand an increasing amount of alliances between left and right parties is seen (the example in this article is DF and S). Traditional red and blue blocks are breaking down.
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May 31, 2018 08:21
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Rnr posted:To momentarily interrupt the screeching Is it still rude if you're interrupting yourself?
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May 31, 2018 08:37
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"You dumb screeching children just cannot understand that it's good to ask more of immigrants" says man from a country that literally robs refugees upon entry.
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May 31, 2018 08:41
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SplitSoul posted:Aside from language difficulties, another reason is that a lot of degrees aren't recognised by the state. The cafeteria guy at my previous school was an astrophysicist. I've also met a cabbie who was a Ph.D. in mathematics. My mom worked with a doctor who was wiping old people's asses for a living. Degrees are often not recognized by the state since they are often really hard to 1. Verify, 2. Translate over different school systems. An doctor or a pharmacist should never work as a doctor without deep knowledge of the local health system, language and regulations, which is why they require thorough recertification before they get their license to practice their trade. An engineer with a 2 year education that focused solely on the maintenance of old soviet oil Derricks will not necessarily have a comparable degree to a modern 3 year bachelor in mechanical engineering, despite it saying so with a direct translation of their degree title. What would be great is if all these degrees could get fast track alternatives to make their educations compatible with local standards and job market. However, I don't really think this is done for any degrees except those requiring licence.
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May 31, 2018 09:27
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Cardiac posted:I thought it was the Somali women who worked since the men were high on khat? Somali is btw one of the hardest to integrate where one reason is how many can’t read, something essential to be able to work in Sweden. The numbers for Somalis is really depressing. to an extent i actually agree with this, in that employment of new arrivals should be a priority. this is actively hindered by government policy, at least in norway, where asylum seekers are literally not allowed to get a job before their application has been approved - and, again, the logical conclusion seems to be an increased emphasis on finding people some form of activity, not to make health care basically contingent on already having one use mandatory participation and such, by all means, but our system is set up so people get all stick and no carrot, which is a terrible way to motivate people to contribute to society. one Actually Good Thing about the norwegian system is that the so-called introduction programme is explicitly framed as employment, and participants get a salary, deal with registering work hours &c
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May 31, 2018 10:22
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Zudgemud posted:What would be great is if all these degrees could get fast track alternatives to make their educations compatible with local standards and job market. I fully support this. Bringing an already qualified (and probably relatively experienced) engineer up to speed must be so much faster and less expensive than fully training a complete greenhorn. Plus you get the benefit of field experience, sometimes under adverse conditions, which is extremely valuable.
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May 31, 2018 11:12
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KozmoNaut posted:I fully support this. Bringing an already qualified (and probably relatively experienced) engineer up to speed must be so much faster and less expensive than fully training a complete greenhorn. Plus you get the benefit of field experience, sometimes under adverse conditions, which is extremely valuable. The work integration talk is great and all until you get a whiff of the difficulty faced by willing, competent immigrants, let alone those without particular qualifications.
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May 31, 2018 11:45
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Rnr posted:Between my dad and I, we've done more for integration in DK, than most others can claim.  Zudgemud posted:Degrees are often not recognized by the state since they are often really hard to 1. Verify, 2. Translate over different school systems. I agree. The thing is, that isn't happening in anywhere near sufficient measure, and the government has to placate a party that doesn't want them to work at all, just gently caress off back where they came from. Also, Cardiac, you don't need to worry about Somalis so much. We're already sending children back there despite the government's own mission to the country not daring to leave the high-security area of the Mogadishu airport.
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May 31, 2018 11:45
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SplitSoul posted:Also, Cardiac, you don't need to worry about Somalis so much. We're already sending children back there despite the government's own mission to the country not daring to leave the high-security area of the Mogadishu airport. This poo poo is one of the things that makes me legitimately angry about the state of immigration in Scandinavia.
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May 31, 2018 11:59
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Nice piece of fish posted:This poo poo is one of the things that makes me legitimately angry about the state of immigration in Scandinavia. At least that part is consistent. MigV was still deporting iraqis to Iraq when ISIS was perched 5 miles from Baghdad back in 2014.
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May 31, 2018 12:59
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Nice piece of fish posted:This poo poo is one of the things that makes me legitimately angry about the state of immigration in Scandinavia. What? They're not explicitly calling for their deaths, just doing all in their power to make it happen. Totally different! Much like 16-year-old Abolfazl Vaziri, an ethnic Hazara, who was almost immediately executed by the Taliban after his deportation to Afghanistan. His brother Vahid is now a refugee again, this time in Iran. They had no family or contacts left and suffered from PTSD. Also the government deliberately hid the details of their case. Thankfully, the final decision was made by the Social Democratic government of yore and that party is now headed by a person who massaged a report on Eritrea for similar reasons. Here it was argued that, because people were able to bribe their way out of military service that they would otherwise be imprisoned and tortured for refusing, it was perfectly safe to deport people there.
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May 31, 2018 13:32
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