|
The game genuinely looks gorgeous. This is gonna sound kinda backhanded but the map is better than stuff like Empire/Napoleon Total War and Civ V at this point, which considering the difference in scale and the emphasis Paradox has traditionally put in graphics is a huuge leap compared to old titles. I thought HoI4 looked great for a Paradox game, but this one is approaching the big leagues and with this kind of progress I think we'll eventually start seeing Paradox games looking every bit as good as modern TW games, and I've always felt art is one of Creative Assembly's biggest strengths. Motion capture studio when, Paradox?
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 11:56 |
|
|
Tomn posted:It's been a long time and my knowledge of the details might be off, but as I recall you had monthly and annual income, BUT monthly income didn't actually go into your treasury - instead, it went to your tech development, so a high monthly income means you do well in tech but it doesn't necessarily do anything for your treasury. Meanwhile, you DID have monthly EXPENSES, so all throughout the year you bleed a bit of money every month until you got to the New Year, when you got a big lump sum to tide you over the next year. Also you could only have 5 loans no matter what. And you could only pay back loans when they expire. Also your yearly income was based entirely on census tax. Everything else (production, trade, etc) went into your monthly income. It may have been the worst game economy system ever created.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Do we really need MoCap for the visceral combat of Paradox games? I hope Rome comes out some time this year, probably won't though, will it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
Unless it's delayed it'll be early next year probably. Stellaris came out less than a year after its big reveal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
I mean, they literally said early '19, so presumably that's the earliest we're gonna see it.ExtraNoise posted:New tweet from Johan teasing tomorrow's dev diary:
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
Ah, I missed the early '19 part I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
So who are the lady gods in the pictures? I've got Jupiter, ???, Mars, Vulcan, Vestia, ???, Mercury, Janus, ???.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 18:38
|
|
|
Arrhythmia posted:So who are the lady gods in the pictures? I've got Jupiter, ???, Mars, Vulcan, Vestia, ???, Mercury, Janus, ???. The green one might be Minerva, representing trade goods to Mercury's trade diplomacy?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:The green one might be Minerva, representing trade goods to Mercury's trade diplomacy? That'd be my guess, with the spear and all. I don't know why that'd be the connection though; maybe Minerva -> conquest -> spoils -> trade is the train of thought?The unid'd one on the left is actually might be a guy now that I look at it closer, it's hard to tell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
I don't know why but the UI looks a lot nicer in that screenshot than it did in the earlier ones, is it actually different somehow or am I just being weird?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
I think the yellow banner complements it a lot better than the other banners we've seen, which makes the whole thing look better. It's garish enough that it actually competes with the massive buttons, whereas the Roman and Carthaginian ones we've seen before are too subdued compared to them I think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 19:26
|
|
|
Are the Hyblaean mountains there impassable? Thick black border between it and the other provinces. This level of province density is going to be a real boon for representing difficult terrain/constrained manoeuvring. We're basically at the point where individual passes through the Alps can be their own provinces. Greece might have strategic depth!  ...it still doesn't feel right calling them cities. Fister Roboto posted:It may have been the worst game economy system ever created. Gonna play devil's advocate and say that, weird and dumb as it was, I never found it all that difficult to work with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 20:36
|
|
|
Honestly, it accomplished what it was meant to very well - the wealthier you were, the more advanced your country. Did it also lead to dumb mechanics like "you optimally want more than 90 provinces, taking provinces after 50 should be of x wealth to advance your tech, etc"? Sure  But it was trying for something better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:I don't know why but the UI looks a lot nicer in that screenshot than it did in the earlier ones, is it actually different somehow or am I just being weird? I feel like maybe the color of the marble is a little bit tanner and less glaring white?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2018 23:32
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I feel like maybe the color of the marble is a little bit tanner and less glaring white? Yeah that's how I feel as well, the UI gives the impression of being softer and easier on the eyes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I feel like maybe the color of the marble is a little bit tanner and less glaring white? Nah. It's the exact same shade. There's not anything different about the UI whatsoever in the new screenshot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
Basic color theory primer: as we look at them, colors are never absolute, it's all about how your eye perceives them relative to the colors around them. The yellow banner pushes back the white marble (and so makes it less garish) in a way that the red and white banners for Rome/Carthage in the old screenshots did not. personally I never felt it was the marble that was the problem though so
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 00:29
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Basic color theory primer: as we look at them, colors are never absolute, it's all about how your eye perceives them relative to the colors around them. The yellow banner pushes back the white marble (and so makes it less garish) in a way that the red and white banners for Rome/Carthage in the old screenshots did not. Yeah, I see. I was getting "optical illusioned" by the yellow banner! 
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 00:34
|
|
|
advanced color theory: beige loving sux!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
I just hope they eventually add expansions for Imperial Rome so I can start the cult of Elagabalus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 01:41
|
|
|
Today’s dev diary: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-development-diary-2-4th-of-june-2018.1103329/
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:10
|
|
|
I'm not convinced that more provinces = better game, but I guess I'll wait and see.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:13
|
|
|
I really want to know how forts are going to work, if it's just a straight port from EU4 I'm going to be sad, but with this many cities it's going to be difficult to avoid making every war turn into a stupid game of chasing enemy armies around.Gort posted:I'm not convinced that more provinces = better game, but I guess I'll wait and see. Well it's more that you need that province density in some parts of the map in order to have tons of city states which are very emblematic of the period, and it would be weird for Greece to have like the same number of provinces as the rest of Europe combined just because of this. If they find a way to solve the problems of excessively fiddly UI and having to chase armies forever then more provinces isn't a bad thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:26
|
|
|
Gort posted:More provinces = better game HoI3 perks up from its corner.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:35
|
|
|
Playstation 4 posted:HoI3 perks up from its corner. Ironically the DD brings up HOI3 as why this may have a lot of provinces but they need to be there for a good reason and not just to exist.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:41
|
|
|
Gort posted:I'm not convinced that more provinces = better game, but I guess I'll wait and see. I also have to assume governors take over the role of building poo poo in your cities, so you don't get swamped dealing with literally thousands of tiny decisions - and presumably the building system is simple enough that the AI can handle it. Governors being characters in their own right will hopefully make it feel more satisfying, more CK2 "I hope this guy doesn't get ideas" and less "Ugh, you just know the AI is gonna be inefficient as gently caress with its build decisions". RabidWeasel posted:I really want to know how forts are going to work, if it's just a straight port from EU4 I'm going to be sad, but with this many cities it's going to be difficult to avoid making every war turn into a stupid game of chasing enemy armies around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 09:49
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Going by the example of Alexander, chasing an enemy around might be appropriate - but defeating them would also basically win you the war assuming you still had a decent force left. And of course most forts/cities would just let you in/pass through, rather than put up a fight - Alexander conquered half the known world with about as many sieges/battles as it takes to conquer the Levant as the Ottomans in EU4. A mix between HOI-style conquest and EU4 peace mechanics might be the most appropriate, with regions just outright defecting if they think the new guy is unlikely to be worse than the old one. It'd be interesting if prestige had more of an effect of sieges and battles and relative prestige between nations was what determined the bonuses and penalties in effect, so that i.e. Macedonia might have high prestige relative to an individual Greek city-state and so be able to push them around more easily, but lacks prestige against the Seleucids and so have a hard time against them - until the Seleucids suffer a crushing battlefield defeat and lose a huge chunk of that prestige. Good generals countering the effects of low prestige would throw in an interesting spanner in the works, where if you happen by chance to get a new Alexander this is your chance to kick larger empires in the 'nads by facing them on relatively even ground - and then steamrollering when your brilliant victories get you more and more prestige to make your god general even more unstoppable and your enemies even more disheartened, right up to the point where your general chokes to death on a chicken bone or turns against the state or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 10:11
|
|
|
The dev diary says Sicily has 23 cities but if there are ~10 cities per province that's only 2-3 provinces. There could be more or less management involved depending on how much happens at the province level vs the city. It would be dope if provinces were flexible, like Stellaris sectors. Then you could start with independent Greek-style city states but eventually lump more and more of them together into a province when you're managing a big empire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 10:15
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Ironically the DD brings up HOI3 as why this may have a lot of provinces but they need to be there for a good reason and not just to exist. more provinces so we can move stalingrad to france without people noticing
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 10:53
|
|
|
Tomn posted:It'd be interesting if prestige had more of an effect of sieges and battles and relative prestige between nations was what determined the bonuses and penalties in effect, so that i.e. Macedonia might have high prestige relative to an individual Greek city-state and so be able to push them around more easily, but lacks prestige against the Seleucids and so have a hard time against them - until the Seleucids suffer a crushing battlefield defeat and lose a huge chunk of that prestige. An alternative/additional solution would be to have garrisons act as essentially forts, and defeating the garrisoned army would swing all the provinces protected by it into your control, fortified cities that refuse to surrender excluded. The fact that slaves are a thing would make the latter less of an annoyance too, making the taking of a fortified city potentially highly rewarding. Hell, maybe you can switch "stances" with your army, deciding what kind of deal you're offering - from "Just swear fealty to me instead and we're cool" to "Sorry guys, really need gold and slaves"
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 11:13
|
|
|
after rule britannia the burning question on my mind is how many cities they're gonna have in ireland
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 11:50
|
|
|
Prav posted:after rule britannia the burning question on my mind is how many cities they're gonna have in ireland
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 11:56
|
|
|
Noice
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 12:41
|
|
|
^^sorry, friendA Buttery Pastry posted:9*23/3 = 69 Gotta count those impassables, so 81. Smart money says Ireland is not going to get the same level of detail as Sicily in an Iron Age game, though. Half that? You could do a city for every county and not even hit a third of that. Or, oh- provinces. Four traditional provinces of Ireland, 10~12 cities each. Gort posted:I'm not convinced that more provinces = better game, but I guess I'll wait and see. Better game, I dunno, but like I said up thread, I think this level of detail puts us beyond a critical threshold for strategic manoeuvring. Things like the mountains of Greece, Anatolia, interior Spain, the Scottish Highlands- these have the potential to be substantial strategic barriers now, when in other Paradox games they might as well not exist. The Cicilian gates are probably A Thing now. Hell, maybe Thermopylae might be a thing. I am moderately hype for a Paradox game as a wargame, can you imagine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 12:55
|
|
|
An interesting thing from the replies to the dev diary: the map files for EU4 and Hoi4 are 5632x2048, CK2 is 3072x2048, and Imperator is 8192x4096. Considering buildings are done on the city level I'm sure governors handle them. The game has about as many cities as CK2 does holdings. It's probably too much to hope for that the AI builds well though, at least not on release. If for no other reason then because the optimal building strategy might not even be known by the developers before release and can change with any change to the costs and benefits of buildings. Sindai fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jun 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 13:05
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Gotta count those impassables, so 81. Sindai posted:An interesting thing from the replies to the dev diary: the map files for EU4 and Hoi4 are 5632x2048, CK2 is 3072x2048, and Imperator is 8192x4096. Sindai posted:It's probably too much to hope for that the AI builds well though, at least not on release. If for no other reason then because the optimal building strategy might not even be known by the developers before release and can change with any change to the costs and benefits of buildings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:That's where the AI being characters in their own right comes in - the player won't expect the same kind of optimization if the game sells the idea of these being characters with their own ambitions, who might be spending more time feasting than doing their job. Eh. Even CK2 lets you build in your vassals' holdings these days. And Stellaris' sectors. It's horrible gameplay, but people seem to hate the alternative more. Honestly, I don't know why infrastructure is on the provincial level. Do I really need to know that Rome has a winery but Ostia doesn't?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 14:32
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Eh. Even CK2 lets you build in your vassals' holdings these days. And Stellaris' sectors. It's horrible gameplay, but people seem to hate the alternative more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 14:56
|
|
|
Yeah I don't give a poo poo what my counts or barons build in CK2. In fact, I'd rather them build suboptimally so they can't match my power. Plus I don't think all those historical province governors were all that efficient anyway. It's quite different from Stellaris where you're more reliant on the sectors not sucking, and also the tile system is far more fuckupabble than eu4/ck2 style buildings (even sailors and light infantry are useful compared to the 20th farm in your sector).
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 15:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 11:56 |
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Honestly, I don't know why infrastructure is on the provincial level. Do I really need to know that Rome has a winery but Ostia doesn't? I assume this comes into the reasoning where Johan said (and does not elaborate on) that more provinces somehow makes peacetime gameplay more fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2018 15:33
|
|