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Elephant Ambush posted:I mean, I could play FFT, TO:LUCT, Disgaea, and Jeanne D'Arc the rest of my life, but it would be really nice to have some more of that to look forward to on modern consoles. I mean it's not exactly the same but they've been making a lot of Fire Emblem games again, and the newer games go all in on the crazy amount of customization you can go through with getting characters cross-classed and married to get kids with specific combos of classes and skills It also feels like there's been a resurgence of western games that have some of the stuff you'd like about FFT in a slightly different setting/style - Like I'm playing Divinity Original Sin 2 on PC which has turn based combat on a grid, cross-class combinations, a good story that reacts a LOT to your choices from what I've seen so far. For tactics style combat, games like XCOM and Mario + Rabbids (Much better than anyone thought it would be) have some new twists on the genre
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Jun 3, 2018 08:42
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Gologle posted:You're gonna have to explain to me why we're talking about Queen songs in the Final Fantasy thread. Valid point, we should be talking about Bowie and prog rock if we wanna stay on topic.
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Jun 3, 2018 10:24
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I mean it's not exactly the same but they've been making a lot of Fire Emblem games again, and the newer games go all in on the crazy amount of customization you can go through with getting characters cross-classed and married to get kids with specific combos of classes and skills One thing I liked about FFT and Tactics ogre is how customizable characters could be. Fire emblem has everyone stuck in one class with some branching upgrades that improve growth in some stats. Disgaea is more or less big numbers with different ranges and sprites. Did XCOM have jobs? I have not played too much of it and can't remember. It had loadouts at least. I still have not played Divinity or Mario+Rabbids, but both are on my "I say I should get around to, but I never really do" list that shrinks and grows as I remember and forget that games exists. Not calling those games bad, they just don't scratch every itch that FFT and TO does.
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Jun 3, 2018 15:07
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When's the last time you played fire emblem, because the game's been mix and matching classes to cherry pick the best abilities for the last 5 years.
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Jun 3, 2018 15:26
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Newer FE handles it by letting you change classes (through the use of consumable items, so not infinitely without cost like FFT) and keep the special skills you learn in those classes. Some of these skills are special commands, but more often than not they're numerical alterations (increases hit/dodge vs. a weapon type, % chance to ignore half of the enemy's defense when you hit, % chance to survive with 1 HP when an enemy lands a killing blow, etc). Characters are also limited as to what classes they can become, with most characters having access to their basic class and two others, plus the promotion options for each.
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Jun 3, 2018 18:00
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I mean it's not exactly the same but they've been making a lot of Fire Emblem games again, and the newer games go all in on the crazy amount of customization you can go through with getting characters cross-classed and married to get kids with specific combos of classes and skills I tried Divinity and bounced off it pretty hard after a few hours. I like the combat and I like that the combat is challenging but every other thing in that game feels so dumpy and bad. Maybe 2 is better but for now I'm going to look into SRW. I loved the first 4 Front Mission games and if they're anything like those I'll probably be happy.
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Jun 3, 2018 18:12
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Divinity 2 is a million times better than 1. I hated 1. Front mission 5 also has an English patch.
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Jun 3, 2018 18:37
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Tae posted:Divinity 2 is a million times better than 1. I hated 1. What platform is the English patch? Is this like a PS2 emulator on PC or something?
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Jun 3, 2018 18:52
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Elephant Ambush posted:What platform is the English patch? Is this like a PS2 emulator on PC or something? PS2 emulator or if you got a PS2 capable of running burned copies of games Its an excellent imo since its very grounded for a mecha game WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 19:28
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I've picked up XIII after a 3 month break and I've been enjoying it. The story, the combat, since arriving at Palumpolum everything's gone up in my estimation. I used to have to force myself to play but I've been pleasantly surprised. I think it's time to start upgrading some of my equipment but the game doesn't seem to have a linear upgrade path like in previous Final Fantasy games which has left me a little out in the woods as to what I should be upgrading. What's the scoop on upgrading weapons?
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Jun 3, 2018 23:12
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DeadButDelicious posted:I've picked up XIII after a 3 month break and I've been enjoying it. The story, the combat, since arriving at Palumpolum everything's gone up in my estimation. I used to have to force myself to play but I've been pleasantly surprised.  I used this guide: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/950899-final-fantasy-xiii/54014417 It's a big dumb stupid process that's never really explained well in the game (and makes no sense anyway) if you want the best stuff in the game but the thing you need to do is focus on one character at a time and save your money and materials until you make it to the point in the game where you find the right weapons for people. Some of them you don't find until half way through the story or later.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:27
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DeadButDelicious posted:I've picked up XIII after a 3 month break and I've been enjoying it. The story, the combat, since arriving at Palumpolum everything's gone up in my estimation. I used to have to force myself to play but I've been pleasantly surprised. You don't really need to upgrade weapons, i think i did it like once in my playthrough i love 13 but you are the only person i've seen actively like the story lol
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Jun 3, 2018 23:29
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Elephant Ambush posted:
Thank you sir I will take a look when I sit down to play some more after work.  mandatory lesbian posted:You don't really need to upgrade weapons, i think i did it like once in my playthrough Story probably wasn't the word I was aiming for. I like the cast. I like how they play off of each other and I'm willing to look at the game more as a character-focused than narrative-focused experience to find enjoyment like I did with VIII. The stuff between Snow and Hope in Palumpolum was pretty good. I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm finding myself liking Hope. The plot itself is very much nonsense but I'm interested to see where the characters go and what happens with them. It's starting to be a fun ride!
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Jun 3, 2018 23:41
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13 is good, though it's true that weapon upgrading makes very little sense.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:03
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SRW is not really at all like Front Mission apart from the presence of robots
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Jun 4, 2018 00:06
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People defend ff13 as having strong mechanics but I can play a SaGa game for that and it won't waste my time on stories, or melodrama, or corridor dungeons, so I don't get the appeal. Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion. If you love it then that's cool, I just don't like it myself. Certainly if you DO like the characters it's probably a hell of a lot more enjoyable. corn in the bible fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 00:08
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corn in the bible posted:People defend ff13 as having strong mechanics but I can play a SaGa game for that and it won't waste my time on stories or endless corridor dungeons, so I don't get the appeal. Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion The difference is FF13's mechanics are fun and rewarding to master. SAGA is loving insanely arcane and non-sensical in what is important or how it is until you master it and your reward for mastering is Not soft locking the game halfway through the story.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:15
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corn in the bible posted:People defend ff13 as having strong mechanics but I can play a SaGa game for that and it won't waste my time on stories, or melodrama, or corridor dungeons, so I don't get the appeal. Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion. It's almost as if you can agree with valid criticisms of a game and still like it for other, different, reasons. FF13 has a lot of problems but I still really like it and will replay it every 5-10 years.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:16
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The difference is FF13's mechanics are fun and rewarding to master. This is an unfair and untrue description of the series!
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Jun 4, 2018 00:17
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corn in the bible posted:People defend ff13 as having strong mechanics but I can play a SaGa game for that and it won't waste my time on stories, or melodrama, or corridor dungeons, so I don't get the appeal. Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion. I can't defend unlimited saga cuz I haven't played it.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:20
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13’s weapon upgrade system is probably the closest the series gets to obtuse and unclear game mechanics, and even then it’s not really that bad and there’s some simple ways to upgrade if you check a FAQ. My favorite obtuse jRPG mechanic though has to be Legend of Mana’s crafting system. Pretty much every item in the game only exists to be used in crafting, and 95% of those items are completely useless in crafting! The best way to craft high-end gear is to farm coins by playing songs to elementals, which can take a couple minutes per attempt and if you’re lucky you may get one of twenty or so coins you need to even set the thing up. After that, you can beef up stats and even add new moves...if you know what the hell you’re doing, ehich you definitely won’t because the game tells you absolutely nothing besides the basics. There’s an incredible amount of different criteria for different things that is only explained in the Ultimania, and to make a really powerful weapon or armor piece you could end up using a hundred or so various items. The best part is there’s no loving reason to even craft in the first place. You can beat the game with store-bought armor. The only reason to craft beyond a money-making trick or “forge strong material and add whatever fluff to it” is to do the NG+ mode where all the enemies are L99 and massive HP sponges, which adds nothing but tedium to already mediocre beat-em-up gameplay. So much effort was put into making this useless crafting system as mind-bogglingly esoteric as possible, it’s honestly impressive and ends up being part of why I love that dumb game so drat much.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:32
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13 weapon upgrading is some guide dang it poo poo. How to add points is apparent if not obvious but choosing a weapon to focus on is rough because you're not sure what abilities you should shoot for to be helpful when choosing which to upgrade. However there's exceedingly little reason not to upgrade accessories because its all (mostly) obvious that a certain accessory is useful for your build or situation and you won't need to change track like when you find a weapon with the clutch ability.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:37
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corn in the bible posted:Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:47
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Elephant Ambush posted:I tried Divinity and bounced off it pretty hard after a few hours. I like the combat and I like that the combat is challenging but every other thing in that game feels so dumpy and bad. Maybe 2 is better but for now I'm going to look into SRW. I loved the first 4 Front Mission games and if they're anything like those I'll probably be happy. Going from Original Sin 1 to Original Sin 2 is like going from Street Fighter 1 to Street Fighter 2. You should give it a try, especially if you like co-op.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:56
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FFXIII’s only obfuscated system is upgrading and not only is it 100% optional for beating the game since you cant fail during crafting and can buy every crafting item and are always told what you need to use to upgrade the only pain points are hiding final weapon stats and making you waste the very rare money when upgrading. Unlimted Saga on the other hand Ive tried playing multiple times including woth a guide and Im still not entirely sure what the hell is going on.
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Jun 4, 2018 01:06
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corn in the bible posted:Like if you defend ff13 then you need to also defend unlimited saga, that's my opinion. good thing i don't defend either 
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Jun 4, 2018 01:06
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corn in the bible posted:This is an unfair and untrue description of the series! You didn't even beat Unlimited without save states
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Jun 4, 2018 01:26
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Tae posted:When's the last time you played fire emblem, because the game's been mix and matching classes to cherry pick the best abilities for the last 5 years. I'll be honest, its been a long time.
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Jun 4, 2018 02:09
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Sakurazuka posted:You didn't even beat Unlimited without save states i actually did, as documented in my lets play which i also did
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Jun 4, 2018 02:18
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corn in the bible posted:i actually did, as documented in my lets play which i also did Was this LP a blind LP?
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Jun 4, 2018 02:27
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I don't know why people would want a blind LP of a JRPG at all, so I wouldn't do that even with a game I haven't played before, but no, it was a SSLP so I could include explanations of mechanics and stuff.
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Jun 4, 2018 02:38
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I haven't played FF13 since release, but wasn't the weapon upgrading system basically just: 1 - pick the weapon you want to upgrade 2 - use upgrade material that ups multiplier 3 - use upgrade material that ups weapon level 4 - profit how is that complicated?
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Jun 4, 2018 07:55
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Attitude Indicator posted:I haven't played FF13 since release, but wasn't the weapon upgrading system basically just: It's mainly the number of items they give you for upgrading, but once you realize all that matters is which of two types the item is and that in the end game you can just ignore most of them in favor of the couple that boost the weapons up the most, it's not really too bad as far as these types of mechanics go. But as I said, it's still probably the most complex mechanic in a non-MMO FF game, and it looks a bit intimidating if you don't know how the two types interact with each other and how to optimize that.
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Jun 4, 2018 10:05
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Attitude Indicator posted:I haven't played FF13 since release, but wasn't the weapon upgrading system basically just: Right but here's the thing: the game throws the upgrade tutorial at you very early on and as other posters have mentioned above it's not even mandatory to finishing the game. It's an obtuse system that has the end goal of "pick the weapon with the stats/bonuses you like" more than anything else, and goes against traditional RPG weapon/armour upgrade convention of equipment obtained later in the game = better than early equipment.
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Jun 4, 2018 10:30
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Mega64 posted:But as I said, it's still probably the most complex mechanic in a non-MMO FF game  FF2 is right there dude, c'mon.
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Jun 4, 2018 11:44
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Attitude Indicator posted:I haven't played FF13 since release, but wasn't the weapon upgrading system basically just: As zedprime mentioned above, it gets annoying when you don't know how many levels a specific item needs, which of the several different catalysts you need to actually upgrade the item to their second form, and what the stats of those second forms actually can be since typically the early levels of the new form have lower stats than the fully upgraded first form. The process itself is actually simple as you said, but the outcomes of it are unclear. And when you have unclear outcomes in a system that requires finite limited resources, players get scared to approach the system. I'd say it's the same way with how many casual players I've seen don't want to approach Rikku's Mix in FFX despite it being complete bonkers. Obviously one is a overdrive that only appears once in a while and has fantastic combinations out of the gate, and the other is a slow burn multi-item main system mechanic so it's not completely comparable, but in that general initial fear I think they are similar. As it is in a lot of cases, the big fix would be for players to just not be super stingy about items, but that isn't likely going to change anytime soon.
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Jun 4, 2018 12:40
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Ok. I didn’t remember the specifics, but i seem to recall i just upgraded poo poo. When i played the ff10 remaster rikku was all star due to mix and her speed, so i obviously don’t have the jrpg hoarder illness. Items are meant to be used, people!
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Jun 4, 2018 13:00
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What is the most convoluted mechanic in an rpg, J or otherwise?
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Jun 4, 2018 13:11
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lobster22221 posted:What is the most convoluted mechanic in an rpg, J or otherwise? Honestly that might belong to Pokemon. What mechanic in Pokemon? Take your pick. You've got IVs, EVs, natures, egg moves, shiny Pokemon, a few abilities... You don't have to engage with most of those mechanics, but they're there, and they're crunchy.
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Jun 4, 2018 13:24
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lobster22221 posted:What is the most convoluted mechanic in an rpg, J or otherwise? Sparking in SaGa Frontier is certainly up there
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Jun 4, 2018 13:26
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