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LimburgLimbo posted:It's excluding English teachers. Technically middle manager and above only I guess. That's expat packages though, so a lot of that cost is likely going to random stuff like rent and school and stuff and it's not all actual salary. It feels like Shanghai (and other cities in China) have whole industries that grossly overcharge for stuff to take advantage of what multinationals will pay for. I've seen serviced apartments here for like 10k+ USD a month that some folks with these packages live in, and while nice, they certainly aren't worth that and are super inflated to take advantage of the fact many companies kinda blindly pay. Even in Chengdu, a much, much cheaper city than Shanghai, these serviced apartments would be something between 10-20x the median cost for a nice, furnished apartment in a new building in the city center. Also they mention it includes international school costs for kids, which is another 30-40k+ USD at least, per child. I wonder what the actual salary is here, cuz just some napkin math would mean even the pre-tax salary would be a little a bout half of those numbers and then it seems not super good? I guess another thing is China is p cheap so you can very easily save a lot.
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Jun 4, 2018 05:00
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In Shanghai I earned maybe half of what I would have back home, but since cost of living, and tax are both so much lower than where I am from, I was actually saving more each month than I would back home. In addition, living in Shanghai I got to do, and experience a lot of things, good things, which either would have been impossible or very difficult or expensive to do back home. I can't say I completely regret my 5 years that I've been in China. But I do have to say that my time in China have left me completely burnt out, and I now also have a deep hatred for everything mainland. As much as it pains me to write anything positive about China, staying in China for a limited time can actually be really interesting and pretty fun as well.
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Jun 4, 2018 06:19
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My dad had the expat package in KL in the 90s and we didn't make any money. The house, the cars, tuition for four at ISKL were all paid for by the company. That's a staggering amount of money and so the actual salary he was making was probably comparable to what he'd been making running a grain elevator in Florida. I know when we left we certainly didn't have a pile of savings.
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Jun 4, 2018 06:50
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yeah to be clear what i said earlier talks about people working in china as something OTHER than an english teacher. working by being an english teacher is an entirely different thing and has to be considered in the lens of why china specifically a lot differently. going over to china to pursue manufacturing, management, legal, etc opportunities are pretty tightly tied to stuff unique in the chinese economy, whereas teaching english is pretty much the same hell job anywhere in asia. you may as well go to japan or korea and at least not get heavy metal poisoning for stepping outside for 15 minutes.
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Jun 4, 2018 06:59
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Magna Kaser posted:That's expat packages though, so a lot of that cost is likely going to random stuff like rent and school and stuff and it's not all actual salary. Can’t get precise numbers but look at the graph there in the article; shows benefits and taxes as separate groups, so I’m guessing the “salary” is actual take-home, and they all seem to average a bit north or south of 100k USD, which is decent enough take home, especially when you consider that’s probably without housing.
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Jun 4, 2018 07:06
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Jun 4, 2018 08:04
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:What's the best way to pay for things in China as a visitor from the US? I used all cash last time but my wife says most vendors have switched to WeChat. My WeChat account is US based so I can't use WeChat Pay. What's my alternative? Alipay? Just buy a burner phone to use for buying poo poo? I added my credit card and verified my ID and I was able to use WeChat Pay just fine. Finally got to use all those lunar new year hongbaos to pay for food poisoning.
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Jun 4, 2018 09:01
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peanut posted:
It really depends. I know a few people here in Shanghai who couldn't live their weird lifestyle here without making that much. In fact, I know people who have non-ESL day jobs that moonlight as teachers to make enough to support a weirdly opulent lifestyle here. Shanghai is not a cheap city, and it's easy for some to fall into a weird expat hole where you're living between expensive western bars and ordering from the English-language delivery service that charges like 10x as much for delivery as the actually much faster Chinese options.
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Jun 4, 2018 09:21
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Magna Kaser posted:Shanghai is not a cheap city, and it's easy for some to fall into a weird expat hole where you're living between expensive western bars and ordering from the English-language delivery service that charges like 10x as much for delivery as the actually much faster Chinese options. Wait what? Delivery for what?
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Jun 4, 2018 09:39
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Devils Affricate posted:Wait what? Delivery for what? Food and stuff. China has way better delivery services than the west and has for some time, but there are some that target the "can't read chinese and scared of google translate" crowd and charge accordingly. Like Eleme or Meituan, the two big Chinese apps, generally charge between ¥2-¥10 for delivery, but the ones catering to expats like Sherpas start at ¥20-¥25 and go higher for all sorts of random reasons. I've also sometimes seen the food is straight up more expensive on Sherpas than Meituan or Eleme, so the restaurants are getting in on it to. The same thing for this site called Baopals which is basically a site you pay some people to order from Taobao for you if you're scared of doing it yourself/have no Chinese friends or coworkers to teach you where the "check out" button is on the page. I'm not sure how well that one does, though. e: I looked it up and they're doing pretty well. Looks like for the time being it's a pretty decent business model. Ailumao fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 10:32
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I graduated from college just in time for the financial crisis so figured hey why not go to China it will be an adventure. It sounds like China is worse now than it was back then though, and the economy here is a lot lot better, so I dunno if it really has the same allure anymore.
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Jun 4, 2018 10:49
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hakimashou posted:I graduated from college just in time for the financial crisis so figured hey why not go to China it will be an adventure. I don't know if it's just me, but I did notice a large shift in the expat community's outlook on China, it's way more negative than it was 4-6 years ago. Even people who've been in China since the early/mid 00's and couldn't shut up about how amazing and great China was are starting to complain, and to consider their options. Agree on the economy as well, the economy in my home country took a hit when the oil price fell, so it made sense for me to sit in China. Now that oil is increasing, and the economy is improving, I'm going home, finally.
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Jun 4, 2018 11:09
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Maybe the Diaoyu Islands are the friends we made along the way
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Jun 4, 2018 11:43
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It’s a sad rainy day today. I’m glad People can say 打到共产党 in public without getting arrested but i don’t believe in 50 years without any change
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Jun 4, 2018 12:06
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caberham posted:It’s a sad rainy day today. It's not like things are that much better https://m.theepochtimes.com/chinese-authorities-silence-dissidents-ahead-of-tiananmen-square-anniversary_2547648.html 6.4 never forget 
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Jun 4, 2018 12:24
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Chinese Scientology still going strong
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Jun 4, 2018 12:37
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fish and chips and dip posted:I don't know if it's just me, but I did notice a large shift in the expat community's outlook on China, it's way more negative than it was 4-6 years ago. Even people who've been in China since the early/mid 00's and couldn't shut up about how amazing and great China was are starting to complain, and to consider their options. I liked China a lot when I first went there in 2003, as a high school student, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone now.
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Jun 4, 2018 13:58
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I still think it's fine to visit and get fat for a couple weeks. But don't stay.
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Jun 4, 2018 14:05
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Any suggestions for stuff to see in Macau? We’re thinking of going down there for the GP in November. We’d spend a day or two sightseeing (how much stuff is there to see in Macau? Does it take more than a day?) in between race stuff.
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Jun 4, 2018 14:36
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Macau is fine if you're a tuhao who wants to spend millions on gambling, otherwise you'd be better off killing yourself
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Jun 4, 2018 14:50
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There's also cheap, sad casinos like old Vegas before it got cleaned up. And the prostitute racetrack. The pork chop sandwiches they have everywhere were good.
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Jun 4, 2018 14:52
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Pirate Radar posted:Any suggestions for stuff to see in Macau? We’re thinking of going down there for the GP in November. We’d spend a day or two sightseeing (how much stuff is there to see in Macau? Does it take more than a day?) in between race stuff. One day's enough, in my opinion. I only spent one day there, myself, but saw everything. (I have no interest in casinos or the track, YMMV.)
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Jun 4, 2018 15:05
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I might stick my head into a casino—never actually been in one—but it’s not a big draw for me. I’m just wondering if the city has any interesting artistic or cultural attractions other than the racecars. I’ll probably spend some time wandering around snapping pictures for my mom, she loves Portuguese influences.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:17
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Pirate Radar posted:I’m just wondering if the city has any interesting artistic or cultural attractions It's China and it gets more mainlandish every year
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Jun 4, 2018 15:19
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It's a city built entirely around casinos, it'd be a waste not to stroll through one at least and see it.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:20
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If you're into motor sports I can recommend the Grand Prix museum in Macao.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:34
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The old city "center" with the churches was nice. It was really rainy on the day we went so it was slippery like all other cities that use tile in monsoon areas. Also everyone in my family got sick on the hydrofoil there and back except me.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:47
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Pirate Radar posted:Any suggestions for stuff to see in Macau? We’re thinking of going down there for the GP in November. We’d spend a day or two sightseeing (how much stuff is there to see in Macau? Does it take more than a day?) in between race stuff. My wife and I followed this guide: http://www.expatgetaways.com/macau/. We substituted dinner at "Clube Militar De Macau" for cheap pizza and a cat cafe: https://www.facebook.com/cat.cave2015/. Bring some cash for cabs, and remember to spend/convert Macanese pataca before departing.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:48
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Maybe the Diaoyu Islands are the friends we made along the way I don't know what that is. Do you mean the Senkaku Islands?
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Jun 4, 2018 16:20
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Pirate Radar posted:I might stick my head into a casino—never actually been in one—but it’s not a big draw for me. I’m just wondering if the city has any interesting artistic or cultural attractions other than the racecars. I’ll probably spend some time wandering around snapping pictures for my mom, she loves Portuguese influences. There's a famous Catholic cemetery with beautiful statuary that was my favorite thing, and the museum is really good!
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Jun 4, 2018 16:25
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Grand Fromage posted:It's a city built entirely around casinos, it'd be a waste not to stroll through one at least and see it. I only like, I dunno, Foxwoods-style casinos where you can go on rides and poo poo. Actual gambling is not my cup of tea.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:27
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Grand Fromage posted:There's also cheap, sad casinos like old Vegas before it got cleaned up. And the prostitute racetrack. There's a type of pork chop sandwich specific to and ubiquitous in Macau? I have never heard of that, but all I know about Macau are casinos and it formerly being owned by Portugal. Is there an equivalent of the Triple Crown in Macau prostitute racing? Are the hats fancy?
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Jun 4, 2018 16:41
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Nope, just sad women in miniskirts rapidly shuffling down a hotel hallway.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:47
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Macau is only good if you have a loving time machine and can go back to 1985 when it was amazingly nice and you could rent a moke and eat excellent food on the beautiful waterfront.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:27
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Wait... whores at a horse racing track or a whoreracing track?
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Jun 4, 2018 20:35
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Macau is no Vegas Pirate Radar posted:Any suggestions for stuff to see in Macau? We’re thinking of going down there for the GP in November. We’d spend a day or two sightseeing (how much stuff is there to see in Macau? Does it take more than a day?) in between race stuff. Macau history museum is nice and it's right behind Saint Paul's facade in the old city centre. The city itself is actually a few hundred years older than Hong Kong and the museum explains the gradual shift of Headquarters from Macau to Hong Kong. Casinos are mostly but one casino to check out is the old Lisboa. It was the only casino allowed in town before the Americans came in and changed the game. Stanley Ho is insanely rich and Tuhao and he has a wild antique collection in the lobby. Oh yeah, everyThursday club cubic has a open freaking bar if you go in by 12. All the locals and people who work in Macau go there to chill out. Also watch a show, House on Dancing water is pretty fun to watch. There's also great Portuguese and Macanese food everywhere - strolling around the small cobble side streets and finding some old school noodle maker, tea shop, or some coffee shop is a treat. Someone mentioned the racing museum is which is alright, but there's also the Porto museum right next to it and you can get some good ports at good prices. Antonio's make a good Octopus Salad and Sangria. Robuchon is a famous French fine dining restaurant all over the world, but the one in Macau is pretty good and was pretty much the 2nd one in East Asia. Stanley Ho bankrolled it and didnt' care about losses but eventually the place caught on and got their 3 stars and spawned the cafe/bakery. Try the signature mashed potatoes and bread. Casino Cantonese food is actually quite amazing because the casinos can afford to poach all the chefs from Hong Kong. Dimsum at the Wing Lei and Wynn palace is phenomenal and half price of what you pay for in Hong Kong. Pork Chop buns, and cafes are plenty. I hate to admit this but Macau's taste is very nostalgic and prices are great because of rent control. There's quite a few great seafood and stir fry places but they got kind of over run by tourists. This might not be as interesting for non asia based tourists but the new Lisboa has a 24 hour sandwich shop where the pastrami and deli cuts are pretty good. It's also on top of the gambling hall and you can see how tacky everything is. Darkest Auer posted:Macau is fine if you're a tuhao who wants to spend millions on gambling, otherwise you'd be better off killing yourself  hailthefish posted:Nope, just sad women in miniskirts rapidly shuffling down a hotel hallway. That got closed down. There's definitely still sleazy stuff around but not as blatant as before.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:17
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China isn’t perfect but it’s taken a beating over the past few pages that seems really harsh, oh God I’m doing that weird thing where I white-knight for China
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Jun 4, 2018 22:21
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Go to Fernando’s restaurant on Hac Sa Praia it’s charming and really good food!
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Jun 4, 2018 22:28
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The Great Autismo! posted:China isn’t perfect but it’s taken a beating over the past few pages that seems really harsh, oh God I’m doing that weird thing where I white-knight for China This is to counterbalance the D&D thread where the Tienanmen Massacre was hard men making hard choices
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Jun 4, 2018 22:51
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Everything I was going to say about Macau has already been said by Caberham (because we're gay and went there together). Wandering around the old city was fun (because I'm a nerd who likes old architecture and ruins).
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Jun 4, 2018 22:53
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