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Funky See Funky Do posted:Never contest the walls. Let your towers and missile troops pick at the enemy as they move forward then move them back as soon as they reach the walls. Set up choke points in the city and get the enemy to blob. You can tier these choke points and have the enemy exhaust themselves by having 5 units fight one of yours before moving onto the next. Exhausted troops suffer huge melee attack and melee defense penalties. I don't remember exactly what but it's something like -70% effectiveness at exhausted. Unless you can actually destroy the siege towers. A couple high tier archers with fire arrows can destroy two to three siege towers before they hit the wall and if you have done that then you have won the siege as all you have to do is put all your forces at the gate and let the boiling oil finish the job.
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May 29, 2018 15:08
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The patch is up! About 600 MB. It appears to have broken most, or even all, in-progress campaigns. I got a CtD.
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May 29, 2018 23:50
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im mostly liking tob but maaan i did not miss playing whackamole with straggler one-unit armies from s2
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May 30, 2018 04:20
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This series would be a billion times better if you automatically won engagements where you outnumbered the enemy by a certain amount snd/or auto resolve was sufficiently one sided
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May 30, 2018 08:28
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Hunt11 posted:Unless you can actually destroy the siege towers. A couple high tier archers with fire arrows can destroy two to three siege towers before they hit the wall and if you have done that then you have won the siege as all you have to do is put all your forces at the gate and let the boiling oil finish the job. If you can fight the soldiers pouting out of the siege tower, I suspect that normal archers can shoor fire arrows from the side, maybe kill all the men inside the siege tower too. As far as I know, height advantage just gives a good stat boost during melee fights, and I don't know the specifics. height advantage is mostly useful in all games for giving your archers, javelins, and muskets a better line of fire.
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May 30, 2018 08:41
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Balance patch for ToB has hit, patch notes here: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/thrones-of-britannia-first-patch-notes It's all good stuff. Funky See Funky Do posted:Never contest the walls. Let your towers and missile troops pick at the enemy as they move forward then move them back as soon as they reach the walls. Set up choke points in the city and get the enemy to blob. You can tier these choke points and have the enemy exhaust themselves by having 5 units fight one of yours before moving onto the next. Exhausted troops suffer huge melee attack and melee defense penalties. I don't remember exactly what but it's something like -70% effectiveness at exhausted. The town maps in ToB are pretty wide and there really isn't much in the way of chokepoints like Atilla and Rome 2. In addition, contesting the walls lets your archers/skirmishers keep doing good damage if you can contain the outbreak. Don't contest if you only have Levy to their Elite or something that can't hold though. I don't believe that there is a stat/range advantage given to higher ground any more. The benefits of high ground are units can't charge effectively uphill because they can't get up speed and so barely penetrate the line, archers/skirmishers have better lines of fire and equal fights will slowly push the line down the hill. Charges downhill get up to speed much faster and therefore are deadlier. It also makes it harder for enemy archers/skirmishers to get a shot on you. With respect to the rammed earth in ToB, if it's an even fight and you are getting value from the walls then you shouldn't be afraid to fight up it, but if you are unable to contain the attackers you should leave some token defenders to hold the line while you reform further back. Your cavalry are ideal for this!
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May 30, 2018 13:21
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I always contest the walls, but pull a fighting retreat to a chokepoint. Turns out the right answer's a combination of strategies, and absolutely sticking to one might not be suitable at all times!
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May 30, 2018 16:54
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Billzasilver posted:If you can fight the soldiers pouting out of the siege tower, I suspect that normal archers can shoor fire arrows from the side, maybe kill all the men inside the siege tower too. Why give them a chance in the first place? Your archers only have so much ammo so I much rather use it to force the enemy under the boiling oil and let the defenses take care of most of their army then have to worry about holding the line in multiple places. Without multiple points of entry a mid tier town can wreck full stacks with ease.
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May 30, 2018 17:05
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Hunt11 posted:Why give them a chance in the first place? Your archers only have so much ammo so I much rather use it to force the enemy under the boiling oil and let the defenses take care of most of their army then have to worry about holding the line in multiple places. Without multiple points of entry a mid tier town can wreck full stacks with ease. They did literally just halve the damage boiling oil does though, so that might not work so well anymore. Worth testing though.
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May 30, 2018 17:08
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shalcar posted:They did literally just halve the damage boiling oil does though, so that might not work so well anymore. Worth testing though. That doesn't matter. In one of my battles with the Normans they stormed through the gate and despite taking some hefty damage were able to take the capture point and thus nullifying the oil. Even with the arrow towers somehow staying up and switching sides I was able to hold the line with just a garrison until they broke and ran.
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May 30, 2018 17:20
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I would still not recommend contesting the walls just because of how glitchy and bad pathing is on them. Once you put a unit up the walls that unit is 100% committed and either it wins or at least does enough damage that losing it is a worthwhile trade. It's a little different on walls with flat ground behind them but on the Attila engine I've tried to move troops straight off them and onto the ground behind only to have them glitch out and try to walk through the enemy. There's other mechanical issues in fighting on the walls like getting flanked and attacked from behind penalties because of how units are forced together. When a unit is on the wall the game considers the front of the unit to be the side of the unit facing off the wall. E: In Rome 2 and Attila what does work really well is instead of putting your troops on the wall you put them at the bottom off the wall in a deep formation right at exit where the enemy has to come down. If you put your skirmishers back from there they get great line of sight on the enemies still on top of the walls. Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 18:14
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Funky See Funky Do posted:I would still not recommend contesting the walls just because of how glitchy and bad pathing is on them. Once you put a unit up the walls that unit is 100% committed and either it wins or at least does enough damage that losing it is a worthwhile trade. It's a little different on walls with flat ground behind them but on the Attila engine I've tried to move troops straight off them and onto the ground behind only to have them glitch out and try to walk through the enemy. I am not saying to contest the walls. I am saying that if you have the firepower then you can deny the enemy access to the walls and force them into chokepoints where their superior numbers mean nothing.
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May 30, 2018 18:29
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Hunt11 posted:I am not saying to contest the walls. I am saying that if you have the firepower then you can deny the enemy access to the walls and force them into chokepoints where their superior numbers mean nothing. Oh yeah for sure. I couldn't tell you how many battles I've won by blocking up the gates while the AI tries to push thousands of men through them. In Rome 2 I've had one unit of mid tier pikemen rack up over 2000 kills.
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May 30, 2018 18:36
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So Thrones is worth picking up? I keep reading reviews online saying how awful it is. But given that I've felt the TW series has gotten pretty bloated since M2 mechanics wise, I'm thinking it may be worth it to see the new directions it's taken.
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May 30, 2018 21:03
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I like it a lot. Reminds me of the uhh, "purity" of Shogun, and like that game (and unlike warhammer 2) the strat map is pretty interesting in its layout and conducive to good fights. Lack of blood dlc is getting me down though
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May 30, 2018 21:19
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Minenfeld! posted:So Thrones is worth picking up? I keep reading reviews online saying how awful it is. But given that I've felt the TW series has gotten pretty bloated since M2 mechanics wise, I'm thinking it may be worth it to see the new directions it's taken. I would say go for it. Whilst it takes a bit of time getting used to, the recruitment pool is great for creating armies really quick. More importantly the factions feel different due to both campaign mechanics and the speed of which you can unlock your elite upgrades so that you can start to enjoy what makes your faction dangerous.
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May 30, 2018 21:19
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Yeah I'm having a lot of fun with it. I recommend the northern factions for max fun. Circenn, Strathclyde, and Northumbria. Maybe Sudreyar but I haven't played them and their start seems annoyingly spread out. I've had by far the most fun with Strathclyde and Gwined so basically buy it and play welsh all day every day
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May 30, 2018 23:22
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So it's good. And no agents. Christ, agents always annoyed me in other TW games.
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May 31, 2018 03:43
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I don't know if this is indicative of anything, but Thrones is generally in last place for number of players on Steam apart from Napoleon. I wonder if this will have any impact on future Saga titles.
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Jun 3, 2018 19:07
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Dramicus posted:I don't know if this is indicative of anything, but Thrones is generally in last place for number of players on Steam apart from Napoleon. I wonder if this will have any impact on future Saga titles. I wouldn't read too much into that, honestly. We have no idea what their expected return was. If we don't see the ubiquitous blood DLC then we will know it was a total flop. Regardless of how well it sold though, I feel a lot of the design risks they took really paid off and made a great game, especially with the release of the first patch. I'm enjoying no agents a hell of a lot more than I thought I would actually, I'm now no longer sure agents add more enjoyment than they subtract.
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Jun 4, 2018 04:47
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shalcar posted:I'm enjoying no agents a hell of a lot more than I thought I would actually, I'm now no longer sure agents add more enjoyment than they subtract. I always use a "no agents" mod in every other TW (I hate when a champion can kill half of an army alone) Hopefully CA just drops agents from all future titles and figures out some other way to represent them. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 06:16
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Move agents into the family tree/realm management windows. Use diplomacy to get map information and then slip an agent in during negotiations. Dice roll chance of successful infiltration. Then you just do agent stuff during campaign map management instead of running pieces around the map
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Jun 4, 2018 06:24
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Dramicus posted:I don't know if this is indicative of anything, but Thrones is generally in last place for number of players on Steam apart from Napoleon. I wonder if this will have any impact on future Saga titles. maybe but saga was designed from the beginning to be less than full titles. i suspect they're basically prototypes for new conbamt mechanics.
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Jun 4, 2018 09:53
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the only thing i miss agent-wise is being able to get visability in the fog of war, and i reckon that could be done via a campaign-map espionage feature
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Jun 4, 2018 12:08
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shalcar posted:I wouldn't read too much into that, honestly. We have no idea what their expected return was. If we don't see the ubiquitous blood DLC then we will know it was a total flop. I will be disappointed if the recruitment system doesn't make it into future games. I think that's a genuinely great mechanic and would fit neatly in most of their games, really.
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Jun 4, 2018 12:18
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I didn't like ToB and uninstalled it quite quickly, but other people seem to. I just didn't think the mechanical changes worked very well in aggregate, though they did make for a new spin on TW. I didn't particularly like the recruiting system specifically how troops started off unreplenished and you needed to spam turns to fill them up, which was what the system was meant to be replacing, it ultimately takes longer to raise an army not shorter. Even with replenishment effects you aren't gonna replenish as fast as Warhams or DeI.
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Jun 4, 2018 13:36
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wasnt the entire point of that to make raising an army take longer?
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Jun 4, 2018 13:44
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Agean90 posted:wasnt the entire point of that to make raising an army take longer? It's faster to raise an army, by leaps and bounds. You get the troops instantly, and if you're just sitting back until they're full you're the one holding yourself back and not the game. Compare that to having to sit there and wait until recruitment's done, and especially for elite units, you're just stuck there. Basically they've just given you the flexibility to put up weak emergency levies or let you risk sending a new half-formed elite unit into battle. That's some good and interesting decision-making on the campaign map. I really don't understand complaints against it.
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Jun 4, 2018 14:31
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Agean90 posted:wasnt the entire point of that to make raising an army take longer? iirc the reason they gave was to prevent you having to wait a bunch of turns to have a full army which... Heh E: although on TW academy it now says it was to make it take longer so who knows. It also says "unless you have the gold" is there a way to buy full units or is CA just being confused? Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 14:32
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nopantsjack posted:iirc the reason they gave was to prevent you having to wait a bunch of turns to have a full army which... Heh I think the gold thing may be in reference to be able to abuse the system and grab a full stack instantly in you have the funds. I think you can recruit and merge units until you have a full stack.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:29
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Yeah, if you have enough funds and enough units in the pool you can recruit multiple understrength units and merge them together. This isn't really abusing the system, it's an intentional thing.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:50
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Yeah that's true, though not sure I'd want to essentially waste a unit from my pool since you have to rely on RNG to get them but i can see that being something you might have to do. Personally the system just didn't seem to add much over a mercenaries system for me re: raising a fast defensive/offensive force with drawbacks and recruiting a full stack of tier 1 units is slower. Elite armies are possibly faster than in warhams with their 3-4 turn recruitment (which sucks) depending on your bonuses to replenishment. I'm spoiled by DeI where every unit takes a single turn to recruit. At least when I played minor settlements had no garrison so you can take them with just a Lord so there's not much use for a partial stack of 40 man units offensively. Iv heard their beta updates have helped a bit though, although the first patch made changes in the opposite direction I'd have liked. I plan to reinstall again in a month or two and see what mods/updates have done.
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Jun 4, 2018 17:16
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I used a mod that had new units start at 70% and found that to be pretty tolerable. Maybe it would be more balanced at 60% to prevent people from gaming the system to have insta-garrisons against attacks. But, since I wasn't abusing it, it seemed to work out nicely.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:01
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I noticed ToB existed just as I hit the 4th book in my re-read of the Saxon Tales, so I had to get it and play as Northumbria. I'm a bit confused as to how I can fix my Public order though, I have yet to find any buildings that raise it. Do I just have to favour the English all the time? Even if I wanted to do that, one of the first things that happens is I get an event forcing me to fight my English neighbours, which either pisses off my English subjects or at least prevents me from fighting non-English to make them happy. I also got an event asking if I wanted to put myself or a cross on my new coins, with the former pleasing the army and the latter pleasing the English. I chose myself, but then the result window came up to say how the English were pleased I was "going native" 
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Jun 4, 2018 19:41
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That's because you misread and ended up putting yourself on a cross. How very Christian of you.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:45
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Saint Cuthbert will be proud!  Also it's kind of a pain that most of my capital province is held by my vassals and there doesn't seem to be an annex vassal mechanic. Can I expect an event or do I need to just murder them to get pretty borders?
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Jun 4, 2018 19:54
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Darkrenown posted:Saint Cuthbert will be proud! This is Total War. So probably murder. No Paradox diploannexations for you, bucko.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:00
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Tomn posted:This is Total War. That's annoying considering that was an option in Warhammer. I hate having to kill vassals, but I want their land!
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Jun 4, 2018 21:40
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That's annoying considering that was an option in Warhammer. I hate having to kill vassals, but I want their land! There's a mod that lets you confederate in the workshop. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374750635
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Jun 4, 2018 21:48
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Darkrenown posted:I noticed ToB existed just as I hit the 4th book in my re-read of the Saxon Tales, so I had to get it and play as Northumbria. I'm a bit confused as to how I can fix my Public order though, I have yet to find any buildings that raise it. Do I just have to favour the English all the time? Even if I wanted to do that, one of the first things that happens is I get an event forcing me to fight my English neighbours, which either pisses off my English subjects or at least prevents me from fighting non-English to make them happy. There are buildings to increase public order in every major settlement. Occasionally minor settlement types boost public order too, but that's rare.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:49
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