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DariusLikewise posted:Polls between elections are mostly meaningless and change trends fairly fast depending on the mood of the country. I really don't know where you're getting your information. The opinion polling in Germany has been relatively close to actual vote results, and the AfD and Linke are polling consistently higher (and the SPD consistently lower) than they were just prior to the election, so it's unreasonable to assume these polling trends are meaningless just because you want them to be. DariusLikewise posted:The AfD is an outlier simply based off the last 70 years of German elections, do you think that FPTP would have given them more or less seats? The AfD won three direct constituencies (one of whom was Frauke Petry, who quit the caucus immediately after the election) and then got 91 seats from the list.
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Jun 5, 2018 20:52
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melon cat fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Mar 16, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2018 20:53
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melon cat posted:Remember how I was posting about the PC's weird pandering to ethnic people? Libs are doing this too, https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/01/liberals-raise-doug-ford-drug-allegations-in-campaign-ads.html quote:Using digital media ads in Punjabi, Chinese and Urdu, Kathleen Wynne’s party is drawing attention to a 2013 Globe and Mail story in which 10 anonymous sources alleged the Progressive Conservative leader was a hashish dealer in Etobicoke in the 1980s.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:07
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tagesschau posted:I really don't know where you're getting your information. The opinion polling in Germany has been relatively close to actual vote results, and the AfD and Linke are polling consistently higher (and the SPD consistently lower) than they were just prior to the election, so it's unreasonable to assume these polling trends are meaningless just because you want them to be. I'm not saying the polling is incorrect, I'm saying I wouldn't put a lot of stock into polls 3.5 years from the next election And assuming Germany was a full-FPTP Agnosticnixie posted:I'm going to stave off that answer by saying the outright numbers would look worse in FPTP: AfD won the popular vote in Saxony outright on list seats and would probably have swept most of the state rather than just 3 rural districts. It would also have been in a position to win majorly in states where it got none of the district seats by virtue of winning the popular vote there. I'm just saying that using the AfD as example of why PR is bad isn't really a great argument.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:27
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Libs are doing this too, https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/01/liberals-raise-doug-ford-drug-allegations-in-campaign-ads.html
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Jun 5, 2018 21:30
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Libs are doing this too, https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/01/liberals-raise-doug-ford-drug-allegations-in-campaign-ads.html Why do the liberals keep giving us reasons to vote for the other parties
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Jun 5, 2018 21:34
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DariusLikewise posted:I'm not saying the polling is incorrect, I'm saying I wouldn't put a lot of stock into polls 3.5 years from the next election The polling was actually pretty drat important in this case. There's no way the SPD's about-face on the grand coalition wasn't informed, at least in part, by the fact that it would probably lose more seats if a snap election were called.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:49
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It's going to be really cool seeing the SPD die the death it deserves. I hope the Liberals go the same way.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:56
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Agnosticnixie posted:Fascism is primarily an ideology of the scared middle class. yup, nazis sole bargaining move is "never bargain ever" and in the rare cases that fails they immediately start trying to subvert everything they're a disease
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Jun 5, 2018 22:00
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The main difference as far as the far right goes in FPTP is that it wears nicer suits and conservative lapel pins while driving their party further towards the right. Enoch Powell was a tory ffs, and none of the federal tory leadership here over the last generation or two had any qualms about working with fascists so long as it didn't get out loudly enough for them to lose their seats; Day, Harper and Scheer are all known for their ties with the canadian far right in general.
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Jun 5, 2018 22:03
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melon cat posted:Ugh, gross. So they're all just getting desperate in their negative campaigning and seriously grasping for straws. tbf while it's a dumb thing to campaign on doug ford has clearly been and never stopped hitting the ol' white powder
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Jun 5, 2018 22:04
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tekz posted:It's going to be really cool seeing the SPD die the death it deserves. I hope the Liberals go the same way. I would bet on them coming back in power within 3-4 electoral cycles in Ontario at most centrism works pretty well when the key swing districts are the GTA suburbs, Ontario is fundamentally a pretty center-left province
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Jun 5, 2018 22:23
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So when are we all gonna take some toxx clauses on the Ontario election?
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Jun 5, 2018 23:05
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Step right up if you really feel like throwing Lowax another 
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Jun 5, 2018 23:07
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toxx is like knowingly playing a rigged carnie game where you never win for $10
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Jun 5, 2018 23:11
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infernal machines posted:Step right up if you really feel like throwing Lowax another I feel like it's gambling for a good cause
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Jun 5, 2018 23:13
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If their lovely policies weren't enough, hearing their stupid ads play after every single loving song on my gym playlist has now convinced me not to vote for the tories.
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Jun 5, 2018 23:39
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unlike all you cowards I already toxxed (correctly) the last election well me and bunny and maybe one other person
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Jun 5, 2018 23:42
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infernal machines posted:
I have no issue whatsoever with advocating for social justice. What I have is a problem with is piece of poo poo neoliberal politicians platforming on social justice while simultaneously knocking the legs out from under everyone. Not only is this a dick move in of itself but it provides ammunition to the racists and fascists by way of advancing the socioeconomic conditions that are a breeding ground for such harmful ideas.
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Jun 6, 2018 00:12
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I agree with that sentiment, it's just that does not come across clearly in your posts, which is why I asked.
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Jun 6, 2018 00:19
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melon cat posted:Remember how I was posting about the PC's weird pandering to ethnic people? This has been a staple of Conservative campaigning at least as far back as 2011, when my wife's parents received a letter telling them how much Stephen Harper loves Vietnamese people. It's pretty loving gross and manipulative because a lot of these people can be highly isolated and uninformed on the issues. I remember in 2011 the conservatives ran pretty aggressively against reunification of families where olds were involved. So here were my in-laws (Vietnamese boat people), getting a sweet letter in Vietnamese from a nice man they know nothing about who says he admires them and asks for their vote. Oh, what a nice guy, why not? Meanwhile the fucker is running around ranting (en anglais) about how their parents are worthless drains on society and should never have been allowed to come here. Classy
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Jun 6, 2018 00:20
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Dreylad posted:unlike all you cowards I already toxxed (correctly) the last election
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Jun 6, 2018 00:22
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Speaking of cowards the G&M seems to have made their endorsement they endorsed nobody lol
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Jun 6, 2018 00:26
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http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-ford-lawsuit-is-a-harbinger-of-chaos Chris Selley: Ford lawsuit is a harbinger of chaos quote:As someone who lived through the Ford mess in Toronto, both as a journalist and a citizen, it’s not the specific allegations that concern me most. It’s knowing that our premier-in-waiting couldn’t even make it to election day without a mad personal sideshow setting up shop next to him, shooting up fireworks and blasting circus marches. And it’s imagining what Queen’s Park might look like if Ford’s “efficiencies” agenda goes as well as it did at Toronto City Hall. 
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Jun 6, 2018 00:27
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bunnyofdoom posted:I seem to recall I was the only one who fully correctly toxxed, and didn't take the cowards bet of who would win a riding. no I toxxed for Mulcair for PM, your memory fails you villain!!
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Jun 6, 2018 00:46
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tekz posted:If their lovely policies weren't enough, hearing their stupid ads play after every single loving song on my gym playlist has now convinced me not to vote for the tories. Just get Spotify Premium already it owns
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Jun 6, 2018 00:53
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Dreylad posted:no I toxxed for Mulcair for PM, your memory fails you villain!! THEN, YOU SIR, YOU LOST!
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Jun 6, 2018 00:54
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Reince Penis posted:As someone who lived through the Ford mess in Toronto I've seen at least three variations of this sentence today alone.
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Jun 6, 2018 00:57
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This is pretty gross. An appeal from "liberals" to vote for the local PC candidate (paid for by the PC candidate) "Pleaaaaseeee? Just this one time?!"
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Jun 6, 2018 01:44
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I sat down to read the new issue of Jacobin (shut up) tonight and would you look at who's on the letters page lol
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Jun 6, 2018 01:48
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conservatives do a thing: "wow I can't believe they are really following [US Republican Leader]'s playbook! this is a new low! can't believe US style politics are being practiced here"
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Jun 6, 2018 01:49
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Reince Penis posted:I sat down to read the new issue of Jacobin (shut up) tonight and would you look at who's on the letters page lol Getfiscal owns and should be unbanned
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Jun 6, 2018 01:50
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agreed, free getfiscal
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Jun 6, 2018 01:50
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bunnyofdoom posted:THEN, YOU SIR, YOU LOST! go to hell!!
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Jun 6, 2018 02:00
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:PR encourages coalition building in parliament, where every party is clearer about what they represent and makes relatively public compromises in the name of their voters. FPTP encourages coalition building within the party, forcing voters to pick from two or three predetermined coalitions and often masking the truth of those compromises and making disagreement over the extent of those compromises much harder to break. It's incredibly rare for coalitions in a FPTP system to break, especially when in power, so those coalitions over time tend to drift towards the views of those in power and the voters have to keep supporting that coalition until well past a natural breaking point. In the long term PR coalitions of opportunity are much healthier, even if occasionally they can look uglier or more frustrating. I just wanted to say that this is a lovely, well-written explanation of the advantages of PR, convincing even to someone like myself who is skeptical of a lot of PR systems.
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Jun 6, 2018 02:31
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PT6A posted:I just wanted to say that this is a lovely, well-written explanation of the advantages of PR, convincing even to someone like myself who is skeptical of a lot of PR systems. You could also try listening to people who have lived under PR systems, and how much they loving love them. In PR, everyone's vote counts. In FPTP, you only count if you live in a handful of very specific ridings. Everyone else may as well not bother, ever. And then the whole "This is a safe X seat" persists well beyond eventual demographic changes, because the myth persists that long. Then think about how different vote results would actually be if there wasn't strategic voting, and there wasn't a sense of hopelessness for those in 'safe' seats, etc.
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Jun 6, 2018 02:50
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NZAmoeba posted:You could also try listening to people who have lived under PR systems, and how much they loving love them. That's only a convincing argument if you think I believe everyone's opinion should be equally valued. I believe democracy is only valuable because it should, in theory, create a government that is responsible to the people. I don't think it should necessarily represent the will of the people, because the will of the people is often hateful and bad. Therefore, an argument that appeals to how PR will create better responsible government is more convincing to me than an argument for how it will better represent people's opinion. To wit, look at Alberta: in the past election, we very much benefitted from FPTP in spite of the fact it arguably didn't represent the will of the Albertan population. In the next election, we're going to most likely get horribly assfucked by FPTP. Neither system is perfect, I can only support the one I think will create better governments, and the post I quoted originally makes a very good point for why PR is the right way to do that, in the way that "  but everyone's vote, like, counts, man... " doesn't.
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Jun 6, 2018 03:26
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infernal machines posted:I agree with that sentiment, it's just that does not come across clearly in your posts, which is why I asked. Well, I'm glad I clarified. I totally think that racism and sexism and transphobia are bad things. Just like I think that setting ones house on fire is bad. Only the liberals both in our own country and also in the USA for basically the past decade have been campaigning on a HOUSE FIRES ARE BAD platform while simultaneously spraying lighter fluid everywhere because they also own a lighter fluid import conglomerate and gently caress it, if someone throws a match and the entire neighborhood catches fire who cares, they can afford the loss.
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Jun 6, 2018 03:28
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EvilJoven posted:Well, I'm glad I clarified. I totally think that racism and sexism and transphobia are bad things. Just like I think that setting ones house on fire is bad. hire more women fire fighters
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Jun 6, 2018 03:32
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Yeah, it's the liberals' fault that racists are loving hateful bastards. People don't have agency, after all, how can we hold them accountable for their own opinions and actions?
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Jun 6, 2018 03:32
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