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There's one reason to take the Steed Stone power, and that's for roleplaying a soldier or knight or Dwemer aficionado or Dark Lord or whatever - something that really wants to wear heavy armor for reasons of looks. Doing so is objectively worse than wearing light armor for reasons of mechanics that were explained earlier in this thread, but assuming that you're invested in Heavy Armor regardless the Steed stone becomes one of the best speed boosts you can get until you unlock the Conditioning perk in that tree (at which point you probably switch to the Lord or the Atronach again).
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Jun 3, 2018 20:31
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Arcomage posted:There's one reason to take the Steed Stone power, and that's for roleplaying a soldier or knight or Dwemer aficionado or Dark Lord or whatever - something that really wants to wear heavy armor for reasons of looks. Doing so is objectively worse than wearing light armor for reasons of mechanics that were explained earlier in this thread, but assuming that you're invested in Heavy Armor regardless the Steed stone becomes one of the best speed boosts you can get until you unlock the Conditioning perk in that tree (at which point you probably switch to the Lord or the Atronach again). The problem with the steed stone is not that it is bad in and of itself, it is that heavy armor is mechanically worse than light armor in every way. I don't even think that Melth mentioned the worst thing about it, which is that heavy armor has serious penalties to stamina regen. But visually heavy armor is absolutely better than light armor, and if you aren't playing on legendary none of the stat stuff actually matters. So if you are playing on adept or expert and want to roleplay a giant heavy armor wearing, warhammer weilding orc, go for it! Just don't do it on legendary unless you like pain.
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Jun 3, 2018 20:47
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sweet geek swag posted:The problem with the steed stone is not that it is bad in and of itself Nah, I think I'd say that the real problem IS that the steed stone is bad in and of itself. If heavy armor was substantially better than light, it would STILL be a bad idea because it excludes you from the game-changing Atronach and the almost as remarkable Lord. The opportunity cost is catastrophic. Also I forgot to actually post the new episode here despite putting it on youtube yesterday: Days 29-31: Lore is a Battlefield
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Jun 4, 2018 03:14
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I don't understand what the writers thought they were doing when they gave you a mandatory vampire sidekick for the vampire hunter DLC.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:21
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It's dumb, but no worse than about half the other things in this game. You're constantly forced to agree to stuff and trust people without any justification at all.
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Jun 4, 2018 17:03
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This game has nothing on Fallout 4 in terms of "but thou must!"
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Jun 4, 2018 17:31
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I don't understand what the writers thought they were doing when they gave you a mandatory vampire sidekick for the vampire hunter DLC. They seemed to think we would unanimously adore the character and be genuinely sympathetic to her even though she’s an unrepentant monster. My annoyance crested during the final battle when the villain points out, 100% correctly, that you are a hypocrite for working with Serana and there was no “She’s loving next!” dialogue option.
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Jun 4, 2018 17:56
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Worse yet, it would have been really easy to make a questline that starts with you killing Serana as soon as she appears and then Harkon’s wacky band of misfits hunting you down to try to get the Scroll back. But Bethesda was hosed if they were going to do that after they spent probably half the Dawnguard budget to hire Laura Bailey. They’re like a DM who refuses to let you kill their pet NPC because they wrote 70 pages of backstory for them and you WILL listen to every last word, dammit.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:12
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I dunno; it worked for me. My Dragonborns are always the kind of character who, as long as you don't attack me first, I'll hear you out. If it turns out later that you've betrayed me then you WILL turn to dust, but you've got a chance. Absolutely gotta convince her to get herself cured though. Every time... unless I'm on a side-with-vampires play-through.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:17
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I mean Serana probably has a lot more success with players playing characters who lean more towards sympathy than Hjalti does. I know I personally don't tend to play characters whose first instinct upon seeing a woman released from a bizarre prison is to kill her. Dawnguard mostly works if you accept the premise that Serana is a character you want to spend time with but yeah that shouldn't have been assumed. As for the complaint that the two main hubs of the expansion are on opposite ends of the map, I don't think Bethesda can be blamed for not accounting for no fast travel challenge runs.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:20
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Tiggum posted:It's dumb, but no worse than about half the other things in this game. You're constantly forced to agree to stuff and trust people without any justification at all. Well yeah, but I don't think any of it is as egregious as Serana, and you can at least cut ties with the Blades when you find out how much they suck. The only way to carry on the vampire killing plot is letting one join the Dawnguard. You're not forced to hang out with anybody else who eats people.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:53
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I'm super sympathetic in game but Vampires feed on people and I like killing Vampires. Unless she's only going around feeding on the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieves Guild (DB because they're basically cartoon evil, and TG because they're so loving idiot) she's probably doing harm just by existing as a Vampire. She never acts like a monster or anything, but vamps gotta vamp.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:57
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Vampires don't actually need to kill anyone to survive. They just need to drink a bit of blood so any vampire not living in a cave or castle full of bloody cadavers is probably alright. 
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Jun 4, 2018 20:06
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On a sort of related note: Was there any in-game way to tell that certain characters, like the Solitude court mage were vampires before Dawnguard made it painfully obvious? Killing them to get Vampire Dust?
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Jun 4, 2018 21:37
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Weeble posted:On a sort of related note: Was there any in-game way to tell that certain characters, like the Solitude court mage were vampires before Dawnguard made it painfully obvious? Detect life wouldn't mark them as alive.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:09
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cheetah7071 posted:I know I personally don't tend to play characters whose first instinct upon seeing a
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Jun 5, 2018 03:33
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Weeble posted:On a sort of related note: Was there any in-game way to tell that certain characters, like the Solitude court mage were vampires before Dawnguard made it painfully obvious? Several! Detect life wouldn't show them. There is also a 'detect dead' spell. That one is a... dead giveaway. And of course there's any level of turn undead. Illusion spells too, you can legally cast a harmless charm spell on someone and a vampire will be completely impervious. Outside of harmless and always legal options, vampires are immune to poison and a nord vampire would be completely impervious to frost instead of just resistant to it. Or just punch them and they will fight with the vampire blood drain in front of dozens of eyewitnesses who don't find this odd! Tiggum posted:If a vampire has been sealed away in a magical prison, you better either leave them there or kill them immediately. That's just common sense. At the very least we should be able to demand she actually give us some information instead of brushing off our questions with the completely unacceptable excuse that she isn't sure she can trust us! Melth fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 04:20
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The point where she wants me to help take her AND THE ELDER SCROLL back to her vampire lord father is the point where it becomes, okay, you need to either hand over the Scroll or I’m going to have to take it off your corpse. Even setting aside the fact you’re a person who explicitly signed up with the Dawnguard to kill vampires and it makes no sense that you’d opt not to kill this vampire because she sounds like Laura Bailey, it’s extremely maddening that the script treats the Elder Scroll she’s carrying like it’s just a McGuffin. IT’S A GODDAMN ELDER SCROLL. Like, I can see agreeing to help her return to Daddy for the sake of the crucial information of where the mega-vampires are. But she absolutely positively would have to hand over the Scroll first. IT’S A GODDAMN ELDER SCROLL, killing her to secure it and finding her dad on my own is by far the more sensible option if I’m forced to choose.
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Jun 5, 2018 12:57
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You don't actually know it's a castle full of evil vampires ruled by a dumbass lord until you get there, although you could probably make an educated guess.
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Jun 5, 2018 13:04
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it's a castle and there are vampires involved, it doesn't really matter if it's just the one dude or a whole gaggle of 'm, it's bad news to go in.
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Jun 5, 2018 13:12
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There is absolutely a legit reason to play buddy buddy. She leads you there so you can Hjalti them all to redeath 
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Jun 5, 2018 14:56
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Dawnguard only makes sense if you assume that Serana used vampiric seduction on the Dragonborn immediately and they haven't noticed.
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Jun 6, 2018 02:35
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I really enjoy your dual commentary.
Poil fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 11:24
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Vampire talk aside, I really do like the Thalmor Embassy quest. Besides the general silliness of running out of Solitude in your underwear so you can actually use your good equipment in the Embassy (which I have done a few times), the 'party' bit is actually reasonably well written, and has several different options for getting your distraction depending on which people there you've befriended. I'm particularly fond of Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone's bit, as she makes it clear that a serious diplomatic incident with the Thalmor is greatly preferable to her over this sort of 'party' where people pretend to like each other, and being a very old woman in a highly respected political position lets you get away with quite a lot of nonsense. (Edit: Whoops. Apparently this refers to an episode that hasn't been posted here yet. Replying from the future!)
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Jun 10, 2018 12:59
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I've mentioned it before I think, but Jarl Idgrod actually can't be *that* old. She has a son who is like 10, which puts a hard cap on her age at about 55. Granting anything over 50 probably qualifies as ancient in Skyrim's setting.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:18
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Arcomage posted:Vampire talk aside, I really do like the Thalmor Embassy quest. Besides the general silliness of running out of Solitude in your underwear so you can actually use your good equipment in the Embassy (which I have done a few times), the 'party' bit is actually reasonably well written, and has several different options for getting your distraction depending on which people there you've befriended. I'm particularly fond of Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone's bit, as she makes it clear that a serious diplomatic incident with the Thalmor is greatly preferable to her over this sort of 'party' where people pretend to like each other, and being a very old woman in a highly respected political position lets you get away with quite a lot of nonsense. Sorry about that, I was able to automatically upload the video yesterday but couldn't be around to actually post here! Days 31-32: Undeath of the Party
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Jun 10, 2018 20:05
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Melth posted:Sorry about that, I was able to automatically upload the video yesterday but couldn't be around to actually post here! You talk a lot about what being a vampire gives you but I think you skipped over the upsides. It gives you a second form you don't want to use, a perk tree you don't want to get points in, disease resistance that doesn't matter much, stealth you won't use, and serious vulnerability to fire and a massive regen nerf in daylight. What are the relevant benefits for you, besides cold and poison resist? Is the illusion buff enough on its own? How does the vampire raise dead compare to the spells? You were only using the spells in the embassy, but since all you were using that for was corpse disposal that doesn't mean much. And wow, Dawnguard is very poorly written. They really wanted to have two sides you could choose between, no matter how little sense it made. And do vampires like human corpses and body parts lying around and blood all over their nice rugs? It's like a fancy palace having cake lying around on the ground everywhere, but worse. Qrr fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 11, 2018 |
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Jun 11, 2018 01:15
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I'm pretty sure the Vampire faction is even the one they expect you to pick, since Serana is the main character, and she joins the Dawnguard if you take that line. Her being a vampire is never a point of conflict, if you're wondering.
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Jun 11, 2018 01:43
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None of that dialogue makes any sense whatsoever. Did they write everything 2 days before release, hoping to fit the story to the created scenarios at the last minute?
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Jun 11, 2018 01:58
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I'm pretty sure the Vampire faction is even the one they expect you to pick, since Serana is the main character, and she joins the Dawnguard if you take that line. Her being a vampire is never a point of conflict, if you're wondering. Isran goes out of his way to be a dick to her, which I guess is supposed to make her look more sympathetic? Except that it makes NO GODDAMN SENSE whatsoever that Isran would ever in a million years allow a vampire into Fort Dawnguard. Especially not one who is carrying a goddamned Elder Scroll. Okay, maybe I'm roleplaying a Dragonborn who's willing to listen to anyone who doesn't attack him. But there's no way ISRAN wouldn't kill Serana on sight or die trying, no questions asked, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 septims. Frankly the only way any of the decisions anyone makes in the Dawnguard questline make any sense is if you assume Serana somehow instantly enthralls everyone she meets, starting with you.
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Jun 11, 2018 02:40
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Y'know, I always half-jokingly assumed that Impatience of a Saint and all it entails was the best thing added in Dawnguard. Now that I'm actually seeing what the main Dawnguard questline entails, I'm starting to think that that position might actually be right.
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Jun 11, 2018 03:56
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Eric the Mauve posted:Frankly the only way any of the decisions anyone makes in the Dawnguard questline make any sense is if you assume Serana somehow instantly enthralls everyone she meets, starting with you. Qrr posted:How does the vampire raise dead compare to the spells? You were only using the spells in the embassy, but since all you were using that for was corpse disposal that doesn't mean much. Oh and don't forget your max health, magicka and stamina are reduced when in sunlight as well. The higher your stage the higher the penalty.
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Jun 11, 2018 08:46
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Y'know, I always half-jokingly assumed that Impatience of a Saint and all it entails was the best thing added in Dawnguard. Now that I'm actually seeing what the main Dawnguard questline entails, I'm starting to think that that position might actually be right. The Aetherium Wars questline! I’m also happy about the addition of crossbows even if they do suck for optimizing and about the addition of perks for werewolves and vampire lords, even though I never ever intend to play as either. Dragonbone weapons were a solid addition too. I HATE impatience of a saint, but I do enjoy the inclusion of Saint Jiub, Eradicator of the Winged Menace in Legends Qrr posted:You talk a lot about what being a vampire gives you but I think you skipped over the upsides. It gives you a second form you don't want to use, a perk tree you don't want to get points in, disease resistance that doesn't matter much, stealth you won't use, and serious vulnerability to fire and a massive regen nerf in daylight. What are the relevant benefits for you, besides cold and poison resist? Is the illusion buff enough on its own? Yeah, I think Mara and I pointed out the weirdness of having food all over your palace outside Movarth’s lair one time. Though I suppose many houses in Skyrim DO have random food items lying out on every surface for no reason. You’re correct that being a vampire has numerous downsides and only a few upsides. However, my build and tactics allow me to negate most of the downsides completely. Fire weakness- massive spell resistance, 100% spell absorption when needed No regen- massive magicka regen boost, restoration perk to restore stamina nigh instantly Reduced HP outside- detect life and muffle to see danger before it sees me, stunlocks, Kyne’s Peace, etc to take no damage anyway Need to feed- illusion perks work on vampire’s seduction, so I don’t need to worry about its level limit as much In exchange I get: Resist frost- not necessary given my resistance to magic in general, but there ARE a lot more frost than fire attacks in the game Near immunity to poison- Poison attacks are rare but often quite powerful, this is pretty much the ONLY efficient source of resistance Darkvision- useless 98% of the time, but I HAVE run into a few more spots than I remembered where it helps Illusion boost- irreplaceable and wonderful
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Jun 11, 2018 16:33
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I played through Skyrim again recently and with Dawnguard installed for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised at how much the werewolf perks added in terms of making werewolf form actually usable. I have to imagine that it's a different story on Legendary difficulty, but even on Expert, werewolf form was a straight up murder transformation, letting me roll through bandit camps and primarily humanoid dungeons. Anything that can be ragdolled is basically helpless, and once you grab the correct perks even non-humanoid corpses can heal you.
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Jun 11, 2018 17:28
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Are you going to show off the DLC that takes you to Morrowind? I never bothered to get that myself, so I'm kind of interested with what they did. I do have terrible nostalgia for the place. Unrelated, but I got reminded today of why you are so particular with your rules on permadeath. I jumped onto a cart, and it physics objected me to death. Nothing I could do, and last save was about 20 minutes earlier. Bethesda'd again.
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Jun 11, 2018 19:51
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Do Bethesda games come with a blood moon equivalent check and fix of broken stuff in the world or is that a patch that needs to be downloaded typically?
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Jun 11, 2018 20:27
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mortons stork posted:Are you going to show off the DLC that takes you to Morrowind? I never bothered to get that myself, so I'm kind of interested with what they did. I do have terrible nostalgia for the place. If I'm remembering correctly, Melth's got himself a list of the order he's doing all of the quests that Hjalti has any business doing (No Companions or Thieves Guild, for example), and all of the Solstheim business is near the end of that list. Reinbach posted:Do Bethesda games come with a blood moon equivalent check and fix of broken stuff in the world or is that a patch that needs to be downloaded typically? Nope! Closest you get is manual troubleshooting with the command console (unless you're playing on console, in which case you get jack poo poo).
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Jun 11, 2018 21:18
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Olesh posted:I played through Skyrim again recently and with Dawnguard installed for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised at how much the werewolf perks added in terms of making werewolf form actually usable. I have to imagine that it's a different story on Legendary difficulty, but even on Expert, werewolf form was a straight up murder transformation, letting me roll through bandit camps and primarily humanoid dungeons. Anything that can be ragdolled is basically helpless, and once you grab the correct perks even non-humanoid corpses can heal you. That IS a really good set of perks and does a lot to take werewolf from horrible even on adept to situationally useful. On legendary though you’re too fragile and have to spend too much time backing up to rag doll the same guy again while you get shot at because he’s still not dead. Plus of course all Dragonborn already have the ability to ragdoll enemies (on a short cooldown if you stack shout bonuses, which you indisputably should), but you’re losing numerous other ways to atunlock people. Stuns are life on legendary.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:58
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Werewolf at least (I dunno about vampire lord) has the use that as long as nobody sees you transform, nobody can tell it's you--just like the gray fox mask in oblivion. So you can get away with murder like that.
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Jun 12, 2018 23:02
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cheetah7071 posted:Werewolf at least (I dunno about vampire lord) has the use that as long as nobody sees you transform, nobody can tell it's you--just like the gray fox mask in oblivion. So you can get away with murder like that. Shut up you stupid loudmouth! I don't care! Don't start sprouting your one line of dialog if I happen to pass within 5 meters of your ugly face. 
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Jun 12, 2018 23:53
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