|
Milky Moor posted:This is precisely my point. I imply I don't like the film -- but you should be aware of my post history, really, given how much we butted heads about it -- and you immediately leap to 'Well, have you considered not saying racist things about Kelly Marie Tran?' do a preemptive strike and make your first complaint that disney has no idea what to do with their black lead for two films now
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 02:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:20 |
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:No one was saying “Get that darkie off the screen” when Lando first appeared. That’s because he was cool. I want to believe this, but I have no clue how this could be true.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 02:39
|
|
|
Canemacar posted:The kid who played child Anakin was bullied so hard his parents had to pull him out of school, he turned to drugs to cope, and IIRC is currently incarcerated following a psychotic break. CelticPredator posted:Star Wars is very white. If Jake Lloyd is so terrible why is Star Wars still full of white people?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 02:40
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:If Jake Lloyd is so terrible why is Star Wars still full of white people? Because if there is one thing that can bridge the racial divide in America, it's the belief that spinning is in fact NOT a good trick. Canemacar fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 02:53
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Interesting that you say "extremely not progressive" and not "actually quite conservative". What is it to you exactly? Why is not explicitly conservative (or maybe it is)? It’s faux progressive. Star Trek is about a moneyless economy, which tons of people have mistaken for communism. (J_RBG makes that mistake earlier.) What Star Trek actually depicts is a moneyless capitalism supplemented by a “philosophy of self-enhancement”, which seems to fall in line with what Alvin Toffler termed “the non-money prosumer economy” back in the 1980s. Examples of prosumption include baking a pie for your family, being a hobbyist, updating Wikipedia, bagging your own groceries, posting a video on youtube, etc. Things that you would normally pay or be paid to do, but that you’re doing voluntarily. Star Trek of course handwaves away the question of where one obtains ingredients for the pie (or energy for the replicators that produce the ingredients - and where does one get a replicator?). So we return to the point that capitalism is still around, although it’s an ethical capitalism - capitalists strongly disavow their profit motive, pointing out that the ‘philosophy of enhancement’ includes humanitarianism. Also, money is ‘invisible’, based on some kind of electronic system of credit. Meanwhile people are encouraged to do work for no pay - be hobbyists. So, put simply, Star Trek celebrates the internet and ‘open source’, 3D printing, etc. And while the candy industry would be pretty ‘disrupted’ when you can just download a chocolate bar as in Willy Wonka, energy companies and ISPs must be absolutely massive. There are a lot of things you can’t 3D print. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jun 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:09
|
|
|
You get replicators from bigger replicators, obviously.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:Not a big fan of Chappie but I thought Die Antwoord was an inspired choice, they fit in that film really well. Ninja was on Blomkamp's shortlist for Elysium. https://pitchfork.com/news/51567-neill-blomkamp-initially-wanted-die-antwoords-ninja-eminem-for-matt-damons-character-in-elysium/
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:16
|
|
|
So how would a proper communist utopia work? Does communism require scarcity?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
Canemacar posted:The kid who played child Anakin was bullied so hard his parents had to pull him out of school, he turned to drugs to cope, and IIRC is currently incarcerated following a psychotic break. Yippie!
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:So how would a proper communist utopia work? Does communism require scarcity? Acktually, real communism has never been tried.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
I mean the problem with bringing up something like Elysium in "contrast" is that Elysium doesn't portray a communist society either- it shows the revolution, there's nothing of what's next. Are there any actual works which show a communist society? Or is it so conflict-free that there aren't any interesting stories you can tell?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:This is precisely my point. I imply I don't like the film -- but you should be aware of my post history, really, given how much we butted heads about it -- and you immediately leap to 'Well, have you considered not saying racist things about Kelly Marie Tran?' I have not said this. And if I did then maybe you were being racist about Kelly Marie Chan. I don’t remember. I’m leaning towards not though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 03:35
|
|
|
Yo I just saw Solo and it was pretty good! Buncha negative nancies itt. It's a shame it's not doing so well, I like these little side story films in between big main ones.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:No one was saying “Get that darkie off the screen” when Lando first appeared. That’s because he was cool. Rose is not cool. This is untrue. It's just back then, it was hate mail instead of public posts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:
Well, there's always the classic Romanian TV series Tovarăș Miliţian. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Jun 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:So how would a proper communist utopia work? Does communism require scarcity? How would a proper capitalist utopia work?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 04:27
|
|
|
YOLOsubmarine posted:How would a proper capitalist utopia work? I'm not criticizing works, or suggesting they are inclined to produce toxic fans, for not portraying a proper capitalist utopia.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I'm not criticizing works, or suggesting they are inclined to produce toxic fans, for not portraying a proper capitalist utopia. Where did anyone say that Star Trek should portray a Communist Utopia?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 05:38
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:This is untrue. It's just back then, it was hate mail instead of public posts. Fair enough. Why is everyone so shocked nowadays then?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 05:56
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Fair enough. Why is everyone so shocked nowadays then? Hate mail goes to one recipient. Racist Facebook posts get shared to thousands.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Fair enough. Why is everyone so shocked nowadays then? Because it's quicker and easier to send these days, and it's publicly visible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Hate mail goes to one recipient. Racist Facebook posts get shared to thousands. Instant audience. One guy gets retweeted into thousands and 90% of them don't even agree, they're just angrily sharing "get a load of this" and boosting the signal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 06:02
|
|
|
We can read the hate mail instead of just having it be tossed in the trash
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 06:03
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Star Trek of course handwaves away the question of where one obtains ingredients for the pie (or energy for the replicators that produce the ingredients - and where does one get a replicator?). In the age of Star Trek, with all of the advanced poo poo they have, all menial work is probably just the work of robots. Not sentient bots like Data, but more simplistic car-factory types. Energy could be harnessed from suns. SuperMechagodzilla posted:There are a lot of things you can’t 3D print. Not much though with the 3D printing of food being a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 06:05
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Fair enough. Why is everyone so shocked nowadays then? Millions may liked the stuff, 10000 hated it. When you had to send a letter by hand, maybe even your name on it, maybe a few dozen did it to express their displeasure, maybe a few hundreds if someone took the (massive) time and effort to coordinate a hate mail campaign. The people on the receiving end had still the right impression, that the majority liked their stuff and could ignore the few instances of hate or unsubstantiated critique. Now the 10000 can make themselves heard in just a few clicks, publicly and loudly again and again and again with zero effort, making themselves feel like a majority (by design) of millions and encouraging one another in their cesspool. Organizing a hate campaign is as easy as writing a single tweet to your idiot followers or making some lovely YT video. If you are on the receiving end it's probably impossible to not be thinking "everyone hates me", even if it is only a very, very small but very, very hate filled minority with too much time on their hands.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 06:26
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I'm not criticizing works, or suggesting they are inclined to produce toxic fans, for not portraying a proper capitalist utopia. You’re mixing up the society depicted in a given film with the ideology of that film. Elysium is a communist film about liberal capitalism, while a given Star Trek is... not. That’s why you can easily find earnest speculation that the ‘credits’ in Star Trek are bitcoins, and Sike up there is saying that capitalism is just fine so long as we replace the poor with robots and there are sufficiently advanced solar panels on the market. The simple question with Star Wars is why a series of films about heroic slaveowner Luke Skywalker is conducive to appropriation by racists. (It’s a rhetorical question.) The bleak joke in Solo is not even a joke; the Star Destroyer that appears at the end is there to put down the slave revolt, so all those cute little robots are about to be brutally killed. While the protags escape with the loot. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jun 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 07:55
|
|
|
s.i.r.e. posted:In the age of Star Trek, with all of the advanced poo poo they have, all menial work is probably just the work of robots. Not sentient bots like Data, but more simplistic car-factory types.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:04
|
|
|
I don’t understand why they so radically pushed diversity in these films. Like Star Wars is a made up fairy tale it’s not supposed to represent our future or our world. And with the new movies it’s all of a sudden about minorities forming a “resistance” against evil white folk and the classic (white) heroes are now old losers who learned nothing over the course of the original trilogy and couldn’t do anything right. It’s going to make these movies feel dated as it’s too focused on the political agenda of the day rather than making good movies. Some political leanings sprinkled in and some diversity in the casting is fine but what they did in the modern SW films is too “in your face” and combined with being mediocre, boring and repetitive (all 4 movies heavily involve infiltrating an imperial base + recycled lines from old films) it just makes the fan base upset for no reason. It’s absolutely wrong to go after the actress but lashing out at Lucasfilm and not going to see the latest film is fair game IMO
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:29
|
|
|
Top Gun posted:I don’t understand why they so radically pushed diversity in these films. Like Star Wars is a made up fairy tale it’s not supposed to represent our future or our world. And with the new movies it’s all of a sudden about minorities forming a “resistance” against evil white folk and the classic (white) heroes are now old losers who learned nothing over the course of the original trilogy and couldn’t do anything right. It’s going to make these movies feel dated as it’s too focused on the political agenda of the day rather than making good movies. Some political leanings sprinkled in and some diversity in the casting is fine but what they did in the modern SW films is too “in your face” and combined with being mediocre, boring and repetitive (all 4 movies heavily involve infiltrating an imperial base + recycled lines from old films) it just makes the fan base upset for no reason. Source your quotes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:32
|
|
|
Top Gun posted:I don’t understand why they so radically pushed diversity in these films. Like Star Wars is a made up fairy tale it’s not supposed to represent our future or our world. And with the new movies it’s all of a sudden about minorities forming a “resistance” against evil white folk and the classic (white) heroes are now old losers who learned nothing over the course of the original trilogy and couldn’t do anything right. It’s going to make these movies feel dated as it’s too focused on the political agenda of the day rather than making good movies. Some political leanings sprinkled in and some diversity in the casting is fine but what they did in the modern SW films is too “in your face” and combined with being mediocre, boring and repetitive (all 4 movies heavily involve infiltrating an imperial base + recycled lines from old films) it just makes the fan base upset for no reason.  Case in point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:33
|
|
|
Top Gun posted:I don’t understand why they so radically pushed diversity in these films. Like Star Wars is a made up fairy tale it’s not supposed to represent our future or our world. They are not supposed to be a safe space for racists also
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:34
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:If the deep agenda is to turn Star Wars from a timeless fairy tale (cf Kersh in the ESB commentary) into a marvel-fied blockbuster then they have succeeded. I don't know. Can you really say the prequel trilogy (and this isn't meant pejoratively) are like a timeless fairy tale? I don't think they are. I think they're as much a product of the 90s blockbuster era as anything. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 08:47
|
|
|
I always enjoy the first few minutes of Star Wars, but then it goes downhill as soon as James Earl Jones has a line and I'm reminded that black people exist.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 09:06
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I don't know. Can you really say the prequel trilogy (and this isn't meant pejoratively) are like a timeless fairy tale? I don't think they are. I think they're as much a product of the 90s blockbuster era as anything. As much as the prequels are a reflection of the US in the early 2000s, the originals are a reflection of the US in the late 1970s - and simultaneously something entirely understandable by a denizen of the failing roman empire, or a citizen of Napoleonic France. It's weird that they're simultaneously one of the first post 9/11 films that really fits the description, and yet timeless in a way that I can't quite put my finger on. There's probably a Zizek quote for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 09:48
|
|
|
The prequels have a sense of operatic tragedy about them. The only thing people can seem to say about the sequels is that they're about 'the alt-right' and that Snoke is Trump.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 10:09
|
|
|
Kylo Ren = Incel
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 10:19
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:I always enjoy the first few minutes of Star Wars, but then it goes downhill as soon as James Earl Jones has a line and I'm reminded that black people exist. That’s the rare orthodox racism. As noted earlier, it’s vastly more common for racists to push for the inclusion of black people into systems where they will be subordinate. Hence Star Trek.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 10:40
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That’s the rare orthodox racism. The Sisko's subordinate to nobody. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 10:42
|
|
|
Top Gun posted:Kylo Ren = Incel Ben Solo talks to women on ForceSkype, he's a "fakecel", not a "truecel". 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 11:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:20 |
|
|
Woah, I'm pretty shocked how down Senpai is on this film. Whatever, I actually really liked it. I loved the movie's frenetic editing, its cutting from action to action to action. Sure, Rogue One with its interstitial conference scenes has a very well-paced three act structure, but this movie actually extends its first act into 40 minutes of pure action, and that's great. There is the campfire scene, but nah---everything from the opening shot of the movie to the end of the train caper is one extended action sequence and it works beautifully. The second half of the movie is somewhat rockier. The most interesting thing going on in the end is the idea of both Paul Bettany and Woody Harrelson's characters as alternate versions of Han---routes he could go down---if he joined Red Dawn to be with Qi'ra he would end up like Paul Bettany; if he remained alone he'd end up like Harrelson (but this point is confused....... Harrelson had a crew. And implicitly he didn't turn bad enough to sell Han out until they died). Also: the action is clean. I never had a problem understanding what was going on. The film does tend towards monochromatic palettes, but I thought the action editing was all very clear. And Darth Maul lives. Eat it bitch
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2018 11:51
|
|
