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Squashing Machine posted:You caught me, I'm not much of a reader of the critical theorists. I am, however, a reader of books, and if that makes me a fraud in your eyes then I can't change that. 
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Jun 7, 2018 19:16
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Squashing I like your taste in books but you can chill a bit. No need to take the poo poo-talking book nerds on the cynical comedy site so seriously. You don't need to be self-critical about your reading either, that's what this thread is for.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:19
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I've only read Barthes' Camera Lucida, but if you're interested in photography it's very much worth it. Having not read much serious critical work is it was very different to what I expected. It's extraordinarily accessible. Susan Sontag's On Photography is another staple of photography literature. It's hugely controversial and some people hate what she wrote, but I think there's a lot of validity to it even if it's confrontational to photographers, and asks you to reassess and understand what you're doing when you photograph. I don't know if her other work is worth approaching or if she ever focused on literature. She wrote fiction as well. Judith Butler is a strange one, quite contentious, but massively important. Her arguments on gender are important for third wave feminism, but are as much used as a critique of third wave feminism, especially its pro-trans stance. She's often a way to start an argument. I like what I've read of her but I'm equally suspicious of others who use her arguments. There's a lot of nuance and fine lines to it. Mel: Which of those books you've recommended are closest to the act and effect of writing/reading/literature? And which are more general on society? I'll look them up, but commentary as close to writing as Barthes and Sontag were to photography would be appreciated.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:34
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The margins of my book have something to say about universal experiences. 
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Jun 7, 2018 19:36
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Mel Mudkiper posted:If you cannot recite your complete stable of critical influences when challenged you are a fraud imho im a medievalist sorry i dont need to care about theory
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Jun 7, 2018 19:36
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WASDF posted:The margins of my book have something to say about universal experiences. an ooniversal theme
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Jun 7, 2018 19:36
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Mrenda posted:Mel: Which of those books you've recommended are closest to the act and effect of writing/reading/literature? And which are more general on society? I'll look them up, but commentary as close to writing as Barthes and Sontag were to photography would be appreciated. Barthes is general is great for this. If you liked Camera Lucida you can do Pleasure of the Text, or Death of the Author. He is the critic I find who most closely concerns himself with the experience of art as much as the meaning of it. Derrida is far too analytical, and Foucault is far too political for it I think. Barthes retains the best sense of joy out of all of them. If you do like Photography read The Post Modern Condition though. Part of it is about how the photograph changed the essence of artistic criticism
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Jun 7, 2018 19:40
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 19:41
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fridge corn posted:I cant tell if this post is real or not but you should read Aquarium by David Vann Haha, yeah, forgot to keep things ironic. I'll give it a look, thanks. Franchescanado posted:Squashing I like your taste in books but you can chill a bit. No need to take the poo poo-talking book nerds on the cynical comedy site so seriously. You don't need to be self-critical about your reading either, that's what this thread is for. Yeah, I probably got a little carried away. I do my best not to get tweaked too badly at criticisms of things I find personally important, but I am getting tired and defensive at the growing agreement that Delillo, Wallace, Pynchon and so on need to be torn down because they're problematic or not sufficiently conscious or whatever. At a time when it's a minor miracle that anyone's reading at all, I think it's just silly as all hell to go after things for being the wrong books.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:42
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pleasecallmechrist posted:So the Jews as writers and publishers basically Nonsense, sometimes you get a good ol fashioned yankee boarding school type in there
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Jun 7, 2018 19:43
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I am now going to work the phrase "but in the world that is a very real thing that occurs" into any discussion of books.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:43
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Squashing Machine posted:Hbut I am getting tired and defensive at the growing agreement that Delillo, Wallace, Pynchon and so on need to be torn down because they're problematic or not sufficiently conscious or whatever. At a time when it's a minor miracle that anyone's reading at all, I think it's just silly as all hell to go after things for being the wrong books. See the benefit to my philosophy of critical analysis is that it doesnt matter what other people think of what books you connect with
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Jun 7, 2018 19:44
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Squashing Machine posted:Haha, yeah, forgot to keep things ironic. I'll give it a look, thanks. The main problematic thing about Wallace is how bad his writing is
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Jun 7, 2018 19:47
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 19:51
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Squashing Machine posted:Haha, yeah, forgot to keep things ironic. I'll give it a look, thanks. Which I totally get, but literary debates strengthen your critical skills while making you reevaluate your own ideas. And we're just strangers on the internet. pleasecallmechrist posted:Hey guys, this books has a story about rich people... I hate rich people! gently caress this book! Always love you letting us know when you're all caught up on yesterday's chat.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:04
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 20:05
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 20:07
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Nobody is tearing down pynchon except the pulitzer prize board.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:17
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 20:22
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You laugh, but it really does work. I never walk through East St. Louis without my copy of The Souls of Black Folk prominently visible.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:31
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2018 20:37
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I hate lit theory and want to shoot it to the sun
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Jun 7, 2018 21:25
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gently caress books, get papercuts.
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Jun 7, 2018 21:48
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I like theory, it's fun
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Jun 7, 2018 22:19
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Theory is fine sometimes, especially since some writers are theorists of their own work and you're missing out if you ignore that stuff. But art always exceeds theory in some way, theory can't paraphrase what art does and looks bad when it tries to. I like simple Freudian readings where you get things like "did you notice that the author uses these kinds of words over and over in a very specific way?" or things like that, i like when it just describes what a book actually does, rather than cast it within some predetermined School or whatever that's supposed to explain everything. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 22:54
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Derrida's analysis of Phaedrus within Plato's Pharmacy blew me the f--- away.
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Jun 7, 2018 23:10
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Tree Goat posted:not quite marginalia, but my wilfred owens collection has a big coffee stain right smack dab in the middle of dulce et decorum est, so it reads: lmao
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Jun 7, 2018 23:12
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Shibawanko posted:I like simple Freudian readings where you get things like "did you notice that the author uses these kinds of words over and over in a very specific way?" or things like that, i like when it just describes what a book actually does, rather than cast it within some predetermined School or whatever that's supposed to explain everything. I don't think there's any "school" of criticism that can't simply be incorporated to a broad, "aesthetic" reading without losing anything. I said this once about feminist literary criticism and got told that I clearly hate female authors like Jane Austen.
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Jun 7, 2018 23:13
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pleasecallmechrist posted:In all seriousness, arguments for "diversity and the marginalized" while decrying white middle class dude lit is just an overeducated liberal way to ease their own insecurity and ennui by finding novelty in coloreds, and now trannies, etc. stfu dumbass
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Jun 7, 2018 23:19
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like there's alot to be said with the cultural appropriation and minority tourism in literature now but sad white upper middle class man lit is still boring and tired
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Jun 7, 2018 23:23
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we must secure the existence of our people and sad white middle class literature
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Jun 7, 2018 23:25
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tired: novels about sad, white, alcoholic, middle-class men. wired: novels about sad, white, alcoholic, middle-class women.
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Jun 7, 2018 23:56
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im a middle class white man ama
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Jun 7, 2018 23:59
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I am a proud child of the steppe, read my book.
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Jun 8, 2018 00:03
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chernobyl kinsman posted:im a middle class white man ama do you suffer from ennui
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Jun 8, 2018 00:20
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fridge corn posted:do you suffer from ennui Is there something similar to ennui, but for thickos? I don't feel like I have the intellectual might to tackle the deepest disappointments of privilege in a way other disappointed people can relate to, and that's a real let down.
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Jun 8, 2018 00:39
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jagstag posted:stfu dumbass i think it's very progressive that the book subforum has its own pet neo-nazi
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Jun 8, 2018 01:11
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a pet? All the other neo-nazis are just cooperating by editing their old posts in page-11 threads. you see one rat in your home, you better check the walls for more, my friend.
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Jun 8, 2018 01:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Barthes but do you own more zizek books than me
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Jun 8, 2018 01:49
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WASDF posted:Derrida's analysis of Phaedrus within Plato's Pharmacy blew me the f--- away. Along these lines and while talk of theory and art is in the air, Foucault's quick tour of Velazquez' "Las Meninas" (I think in the introduction to The Order of Things?) still stands out to me probably fifteen years after I've last read it. His powers of synthesis were what made him such an influence on my own theory, but I can sympathize with Mel's nitpick about that political kernel being always in his undercurrent. I should probably reread some of Foucault, but I resolved not to revisit anything of his until I've made my way through the Collège de France lecture series. His project in those years/lectures is intimidating as gently caress, taken as a whole, and I'm frankly not sure I'm equipped for it.
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Jun 8, 2018 02:03
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