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we have a 2 hour one currently and not a lot of people are doing it, I theorize that's too long but some of my co-workers disagree
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Jun 9, 2018 06:47
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if you're talking about the automatically tested stuff, it's OK i guess but rarely interesting. if there are multiple exercises I'll do each one in a different language requested by the job
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Jun 9, 2018 07:09
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There's not a single person in this thread who hasn't gotten stuck on a stupid bug for a couple of hours and felt like a loving idiot afterwards. Strictly timed tests are nothing but completely random and favour people who have seen the problem in advance. I genuinely don't mind taking a day to do a complex problem, I mean you're upgrading your income for heaven's sake, it's worth it.
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Jun 9, 2018 07:22
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PokeJoe posted:we have a 2 hour one currently and not a lot of people are doing it, I theorize that's too long but some of my co-workers disagree it may be too long but if it's not more than 3 problems I think that's fine. 2 hours is reasonable if you expect them to solve it in like 1h30min and the remaining 30min is giving some more breathing space for the person to review, polish and document the solutions a bit. qhat posted:There's not a single person in this thread who hasn't gotten stuck on a stupid bug for a couple of hours and felt like a loving idiot afterwards. Strictly timed tests are nothing but completely random and favour people who have seen the problem in advance. I don't know, most of these problems are not really designed for giving you serious bugs like that. another problem that I have with long coding projects is that the problem statements are usually way more imprecise and open-ended. I can't help but feel like the judgement is effectively more subjective and arbitrary.
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Jun 9, 2018 07:47
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Symbolic Butt posted:I don't know, most of these problems are not really designed for giving you serious bugs like that. like the one time that I got stuck trying to debug a solution it wasn't reaally a bug, it was because of this: Symbolic Butt posted:I did a test and it was just 2 questions on hackerrank but they were so weirdly written and ambiguous that I spent most of the hour trying to decipher the instructions.
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Jun 9, 2018 07:55
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quote:I don't know, most of these problems are not really designed for giving you serious bugs like that. What exactly is the objection to giving someone 8 hours (a full day) to think about several distinct problems instead of 2 hours? If the answer is "they might have time to actually think and solve it in the best possible way having never seen it before", then maybe you need to reevalutate what's important in an engineer. If the answer is "because they might Google the answer", maybe your challenge flatout sucks.
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Jun 9, 2018 08:03
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qhat posted:What exactly is the objection to giving someone 8 hours (a full day) to think about several distinct problems instead of 2 hours? If the answer is "they might have time to actually think and solve it in the best possible way having never seen it before", then maybe you need to reevalutate what's important in an engineer. If the answer is "because they might Google the answer", maybe your challenge flatout sucks. eh, if it's like some DP and data structure problems I have no objections. if it's like a nontrivial web app with lots of documentation (which is always the case for those long timed coding challenges) then you're killing me.
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Jun 9, 2018 08:07
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Like don't get me wrong, I think a mandated 8 hours for a very thorough complex problem is equally as terrible as mandated 2 hours for a more simple problem. I just don't like how companies seem to equate shorter time with better engineer nowadays.
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Jun 9, 2018 08:09
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We started using a simple 15min javascript test to weed out the people with 15+ years of web dev who don't understand how to solve an issue with an out of scope variable in javascript (we're looking for if they know about either .bind() or using an arrow function) It's amazing how many people fail. Second part is basically setting innerHTML of an element to '', have had people claiming 18 years of webdev fail that one also. Maybe interview jitters, maybe the test is bad.. but a couple people solved it no problem, as would be expected so I guess it works? Interviewing is the worst 
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Jun 9, 2018 10:27
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I just looked up the glassdoor of this last company that I did the coding challenge and there's one guy complaining that the interviewers are "a bunch of social justice warriors" lol
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Jun 9, 2018 13:36
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I think the pairing interviews I had recently were good. online, scheduled for 60, basically designed for 45 minutes of work plus 15 for the interviewee to ask about the company.
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Jun 9, 2018 14:00
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unpaid "homework" is an abusive practice and i won't participate in it
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Jun 9, 2018 16:05
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oh calm down, it's not abusive jfc
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Jun 9, 2018 16:08
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Space Whale posted:I believe I'm at their rear end kicking competitor. Did your job name start with a J? no this was flight optimization for the Air Force
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Jun 9, 2018 16:25
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That's one of the many things we do. Just not that particular airplane.
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Jun 9, 2018 16:31
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I'm a fan of the take home, especially when the question is relevant to the job you're interviewing for and is discussed in the interview. Its a much more accurate way to gauge a person's skills: they spend a few hours writing some code, and then you discuss it as a group. Way more realistic than expecting someone to solve a problem they've never considered on a whiteboard in 15 minutes in front of a bunch of people. That being said, I don't think it should take more than a few hours, and should be a toy problem. Some of my favorites have been: Here is a big text file of some logs, write a script in perl that pulls some things out with a regular expression and does some aggregations. (for a job at the networking department of a university that used perl) Here is a big list of lat/lon points, write a java application that consumes them and efficiently retrieves all of them given a random bounding box. (for a job that did geospatial applications in java)
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Jun 9, 2018 16:52
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What goes wrong is guessing what level and style of enterprise OOP they're expecting your toy app to possess.
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Jun 9, 2018 17:03
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Space Whale posted:What goes wrong is guessing what level and style of enterprise OOP they're expecting your toy app to possess. If I was applying and turned down because my toy application wasn't "enterprisey" enough then at least they told me relatively early in the process that they're a horrible company to work for.
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Jun 9, 2018 17:05
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Yeah i want to see the bridge pattern in a toy app 
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Jun 9, 2018 17:18
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ADINSX posted:I'm a fan of the take home, especially when the question is relevant to the job you're interviewing for and is discussed in the interview. Its a much more accurate way to gauge a person's skills: they spend a few hours writing some code, and then you discuss it as a group. if the information is that valuable, pay your candidates the reason interviews are unpaid is that it's reciprocal -- the candidate gives you unpaid time, and you give the candidate unpaid time. homework is an abusive practice because you demand effort from the candidate without any reciprocity on your part
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Jun 9, 2018 17:21
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:if the information is that valuable, pay your candidates If you feel that strongly about it you can apply somewhere else... I'm saying these are things I appreciated as a candidate. I would rather spend a few hours in a relaxed state doing a take home than a potentially shorter (but not necessarily... all day interviews at a company are common and also a nightmare) amount of time in front of a whiteboard with a problem I've never seen before.
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Jun 9, 2018 17:26
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take home assignments are bad because they are discriminatory against people with lives outside of work got a family? gently caress you please ignore your children and put in an extra 8 hours of work to solve this “exercise” don’t want to spend your free time doing unpaid work? too bad, we’ve gone with another candidate they’re used to select for people who can be bullied into spending time outside of work coding
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Jun 9, 2018 17:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:if the information is that valuable, pay your candidates wow for once i agree with you
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Jun 9, 2018 17:47
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EVGA Longoria posted:take home assignments are bad because they are discriminatory against people with lives outside of work absolutely tech is discriminatory against age and the lower class
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Jun 9, 2018 17:49
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:unpaid "homework" is an abusive practice and i won't participate in it
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Jun 9, 2018 18:16
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Gazpacho posted:Bringing someone onto a team who can’t code is more abusive (to the rest of the team) then dont make the homework multiple hours of garbage
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Jun 9, 2018 18:18
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or loving leave it for the whiteboarding or something
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Jun 9, 2018 18:18
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Pollyanna posted:then dont make the homework multiple hours of garbage
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Jun 9, 2018 18:23
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if it's that valuable as a mode of candidate selection, then pay for it. if you're willing to pay for a day's work, then it's not abusive none of your excuses for homework will make a whit of difference without putting your money where your mouth is
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Jun 9, 2018 18:27
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No payment for the interview time & no payment for the coding exercise. Just lunch & maybe a drink at the third round bro social
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Jun 9, 2018 18:43
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lots of people like to think software engineering is a lifestyle instead of a loving job hahahahha yeah bro come over and well give you lunch and a shirt and if you get the job you can use our open taps during your 12-hour shifts
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Jun 9, 2018 18:48
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gently caress you this is a job and we are doing it for money to support our life not the other way around
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Jun 9, 2018 18:49
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unpaid homework is wage theft full stop either do it in the loving interview or figure out some other way.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:51
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it is wage theft it is also time theft (a nonrenewable resource)
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Jun 9, 2018 18:52
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Theres no way under competitive conditions for a hiring company to make the process entirely painless. If the exercise cuts into your time outside of work, take time off from work to do it. You don’t have the vacation days accrued? I’m truly sorry but that’s out of anyone’s hands. Not gonna haggle about a compensation rate for your time vs your current pay either. The rate is 0.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:57
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its me, the shitbird that cant whiteboard to save my life but likes homework edit: in maybe not terrible interview news one place sat me in front of a dev machine with a continuous testing tool running and told me to make the circles turn green. that was a good one imo Shaman Linavi fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jun 9, 2018 |
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Jun 9, 2018 18:58
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Gazpacho posted:Theres no way under competitive conditions for a hiring company to make the process entirely painless. If the exercise cuts into your time outside of work, take time off from work to do it. You don’t have the vacation days accrued? I’m truly sorry but that’s out of anyone’s hands. Not gonna haggle about a compensation rate for your time vs your current pay either. The rate is 0. Yeah normally I'm all about work is for work and respecting time off but if you're gonna throw a shitfit about a 3 hour take home interview question its probably not gonna work out. Hell, the places that did it had like a 2 hour in-person interview, so the total time interviewing was less than some of the all day ones. What do you do when a company wants to fly you out? Do you demand compensation for the time after the interview? What about the time you spent reviewing poo poo in preperation? Interviewing takes a lot of time, 3 hours here and there for a take home is not much compared to the rest of the process.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:07
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Gazpacho posted:Theres no way under competitive conditions for a hiring company to make the process entirely painless. If the exercise cuts into your time outside of work, take time off from work to do it. You don’t have the vacation days accrued? I’m truly sorry but that’s out of anyone’s hands. Not gonna haggle about a compensation rate for your time vs your current pay either. The rate is 0. you're just going to miss out on qualified candidates who think you're an rear end in a top hat but they'll be right, so i guess that's actually a win
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Jun 9, 2018 19:07
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Gazpacho posted:No payment for the interview time & no payment for the coding exercise. Just lunch & maybe a drink at the third round bro social there's no payment expected for the interview time because we are both out on a limb for that i give of my time freely to interview, and the candidate gives of their own time freely to be at the interview homework breaks that reciprocal relationship. if you demand something from a candidate without offering something of your own, you are obliged to pay for it
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Jun 9, 2018 19:08
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:homework breaks that reciprocal relationship. if you demand something from a candidate without offering something of your own, you are obliged to pay for it They spend time reviewing it
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Jun 9, 2018 19:09
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