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funkybottoms posted:if they're storing IPAs warm for three months, that's on the store, not the brewery. we store bottles of every run we do and store half warm and half cold, then taste them blind side-by-side every month or so, and the difference is massive even though our dissolved oxygen levels are really low What percentage of your average liquor store/beer shop is fridge space? At least inventory rotation and checks is something any store should be able to do. Creating 100% cool storage is entirely unreasonable. And I stand by my comments: if your beer can't handle being on a shelf for 3 months then you're best to self-distribute because your product will never be handled in a way that will guarantee that quality. chitoryu12 posted:If we're talking about whether or not beers have a rapid expiration date, I think it's perfectly relevant to mention that some beers have the potential to even improve instead of just deteriorating. Generally, sitting on a store shelf is not an ideal way to age a beer, even for those few styles that can be aged into something positive. And generally, you're looking at years before those types of beers really start changing. danbanana fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jun 11, 2018 |
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Jun 11, 2018 12:04
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my beer selection process at stores goes like this 1. find local hoppy beer 2. check date. if less than a month old, buy it 3. if too old, find sierra nevada 4. check date. if less than three months old, buy it 5. if too old, just buy coors banquet
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Jun 11, 2018 12:37
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danbanana posted:What percentage of your average liquor store/beer shop is fridge space? At least inventory rotation and checks is something any store should be able to do. Creating 100% cool storage is entirely unreasonable. without trying, i can think of almost a dozen places that have either 100% cold storage or at least keep all their hoppy/delicate stuff cold. you can only buy spirits from the state, so i can't speak to liquor stores, but a number of those are simply little neighborhood convenience stores with great beer selections (and way more than one tiny reach-in). also, feel free to send me some samples of warm-stored three month old IPAs that still taste good (along with fresh examples to compare) so i can eat my words.
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Jun 11, 2018 13:03
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*coughavatarcough* I'm not saying fresher, cold stored beer isn't going to be better and/or closer to the intent of the brewery. I'm saying it is insane to think that in a 3 tier system that every step of handling is going to be ideal and therefore brewing unstable beers for that system is not smart. Also, I cannot think of a single shop I've ever been to that had 100% cold storage. Even Beer Temple, which does manage to keep most if not all hoppy beers in their walk-in cooler space, doesn't have full refrigeration. So bully on your locals for doing that but it is definitely not the norm nor is it feasible for a vast majority of shops.
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Jun 11, 2018 14:44
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After I started being a snob about fresh IPAs, I realized how loving good Two Hearted is when it's fresh. It's always been a go-to, but it's Top Tier in a 2-month window. I also thought that SNPA had gone downhill after drinking it for years before I realized that my local liquor store wasn't rotating in their stock and they were selling 6mo+ beers.
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Jun 11, 2018 14:48
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danbanana posted:Also, I cannot think of a single shop I've ever been to that had 100% cold storage. Even Beer Temple, which does manage to keep most if not all hoppy beers in their walk-in cooler space, doesn't have full refrigeration. So bully on your locals for doing that but it is definitely not the norm nor is it feasible for a vast majority of shops. WaWa has all their beer in cold storage.
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Jun 11, 2018 14:50
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The freshness thing really bothered me when at any of my stores so I've completely given up on buying hoppy beers at them at all; in all honesty, I just rely on local breweries for growlers/cans and buy the occasional Cuvee Rene when I want a change.
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Jun 11, 2018 14:56
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 I know this isn’t a big deal for most, but I’m glad Bells is finally available in Massachusetts!
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Jun 11, 2018 16:09
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nwin posted:
Hell yes! and you got cans! I think two hearted tastes better in cans than bottles.
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Jun 11, 2018 16:11
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danbanana posted:And if you're digging to find beers with earlier package dates, man, that's something. I do this for singles because apparently thats where you put all the beer when you want it to sit for a year
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Jun 11, 2018 16:37
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Also all these wonderful ideas about how a store should handle beer doesnt really mean much when only a few of the stores give a poo poo to begin with.
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Jun 11, 2018 16:38
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Well, the freshness highlighting board would make the few stores that do give a poo poo, give slightly more of a poo poo. Think of it as a metamucil pill.
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Jun 11, 2018 16:45
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Control Volume posted:Also all these wonderful ideas about how a store should handle beer doesnt really mean much when only a few of the stores give a poo poo to begin with. well, someone did ask danbanana posted:*coughavatarcough* every other Thursday the entire back-of-house staff (which includes three brewers, a brewmaster, a level two cicerone ((i know, i know)), and a BJCP judge) sits down with one or two beers purchased in the market and blindly rates them using BJCP scoresheets. in March, we actually had canned Two-Hearted that was 1.5 months old and between eight people it averaged a 27.7 out of 50 and received comments like old, oxidized, stale, papery, metallic, and weak aroma. maybe they should drop it?
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Jun 11, 2018 18:00
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funkybottoms posted:every other Thursday the entire back-of-house staff (which includes three brewers, a brewmaster, a level two cicerone ((i know, i know)), and a BJCP judge) sits down with one or two beers purchased in the market and blindly rates them using BJCP scoresheets. in March, we actually had canned Two-Hearted that was 1.5 months old and between eight people it averaged a 27.7 out of 50 and received comments like old, oxidized, stale, papery, metallic, and weak aroma. maybe they should drop it? Sounds like something is wrong with your coworkers.
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Jun 11, 2018 18:05
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meatloafkitten posted:When the typical customer buys a gallon of milk, they don't dig around to find the freshest gallon; if they check the date, they're typically going to be satisfied as long as they know they'll be able to finish it before it expires. I do. Why would I not want to buy the product that will last me the longest? If I knew for a fact I'd finish it I might not care, but I usually use it in cooking and I decide what to cook on the day so there's no guarantee. Even if I did I would probably select the better deal on principle as it takes three seconds tops to scan the jugs available.
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Jun 11, 2018 22:25
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I buy the jug of milk with the furthest away expiration date, but that's because milk sometimes sours a few days before that day and when it goes bad it goes bad, enough to make you gag. I've not encountered a beer that suddenly turns into sour mud full of sediment after a month in your fridge.
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Jun 11, 2018 22:39
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chitoryu12 posted:I buy the jug of milk with the furthest away expiration date, but that's because milk sometimes sours a few days before that day and when it goes bad it goes bad, enough to make you gag. I've not encountered a beer that suddenly turns into sour mud full of sediment after a month in your fridge. Friend, let me tell you about this thing called the milkshake ipa...
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Jun 11, 2018 22:42
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very stable genius posted:Friend, let me tell you about this thing called the milkshake ipa... I always count myself lucky for not liking IPAs.
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Jun 11, 2018 22:53
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You will.
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Jun 12, 2018 00:03
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I've never once tasted an IPA that I considered more than tolerable.
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Jun 12, 2018 00:18
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My beer preference is mostly on the Belgian side, especially Trappist beers. My absolute favorite is St. Bernardus Prior 8, followed by Chimay Grande Reserve. I'm actually drinking a Westvleteren Blonde right now, and it's become my favorite Belgian Pale Ale. I also usually prefer dark lagers like dunkels and schwarzbier, amber and brown ales for casual drinking, and some stouts and porters (I think the genre is starting to get a bit oversaturated by pitch black beers with huge flavors that all mostly taste alike but cost a ton). I haven't tried an IPA that I consider more than okay. I feel like the heavy use of hops throws off the balance of the beer and makes it more difficult to drink with the high bitterness and piney citrus flavor. According to my Beer Advocate reviews, the one I've liked the most is Sierra Nevada Sidecar Orange IPA.
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Jun 12, 2018 00:31
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The new hotness is "IPAs for people who don't like IPAs" so more fruit, less bitter.
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Jun 12, 2018 00:45
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Send chitoryu12 some haze, stat. High bitterness/piney citrus hasn't been trendy for at least a couple years now. Feels like just about any big city has at least one decent haze ipa producer.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:11
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you can get ghetto haze from Sierra Nevada and locally from literally any brewery in FL
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Jun 12, 2018 01:21
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What demon milk are you drinking that sours before the expiration date. I only have mine in coffee/tea so even 1L lasts forever and it's usually fine for weeks.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:08
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Klaus Kinski posted:What demon milk are you drinking that sours before the expiration date. I only have mine in coffee/tea so even 1L lasts forever and it's usually fine for weeks. WELCOME TO TRUMP'S AMERICA. WHERE THE MILK SPOILS BEFORE IT IS SUPPOSED TO AND PEOPLE SHIP ALCOHOLIC YOOHOO BACK AND FORTH SO THEY CAN PUT PICTURES OF IT ON INSTAGRAM.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:29
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Klaus Kinski posted:What demon milk are you drinking that sours before the expiration date. I only have mine in coffee/tea so even 1L lasts forever and it's usually fine for weeks. Just regular milk from Publix or Walmart. It happens like once or twice a year where it spoils a few days before the date on the jug.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:48
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danbanana posted:ALCOHOLIC YOOHOO New thread title right there folks.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:58
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chitoryu12 posted:I always count myself lucky for not liking IPAs. I grew up with IPA's for the longest time you could order an IPA in any bar in here and you would get the same thing, a Deuchar's so for me a lot of these NEIPA' etc aren't really IPA's to me, they're just so different I cannot categorise them in the same way. I just feel too many people are aping the American IPA style of 'throw enough hops at it to get the IBU north of 60 and worry about the taste later'*. I just want something in at 4.5%, moderate bitterness, smooth. Good session IPA's seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Also 80/-'s , we need more of those on the shelves as well. 70/-'s and 90/- as well but for me 80/- is right on the money. *I know this is a gross generalisation, there are a lot of great AIPA's but for every Sculpin at 70 IBU 7% there are a dozen poorly executed copies. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 10:48
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danbanana posted:Sounds like something is wrong with your coworkers. a few of them said Two-Hearted was among their favorite IPAs and one even said at one point it would have been his choice for the one beer he could drink for the rest of his life, so, yeah, i agree. chitoryu12 posted:Just regular milk from Publix or Walmart. It happens like once or twice a year where it spoils a few days before the date on the jug. if the cow can't produce a stable product, maybe it should just be sent off to the hamburger factory
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Jun 12, 2018 11:04
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funkybottoms posted:if the cow can't produce a stable product, maybe it should just be sent off to the hamburger factory Can we do this with brewers, send them off to live on a farm?
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Jun 12, 2018 11:08
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funkybottoms posted:a few of them said Two-Hearted was among their favorite IPAs and one even said at one point it would have been his choice for the one beer he could drink for the rest of his life, so, yeah, i agree. That person is me. Aramoro posted:I grew up with IPA's for the longest time you could order an IPA in any bar in here and you would get the same thing, a Deuchar's so for me a lot of these NEIPA' etc aren't really IPA's to me, they're just so different I cannot categorise them in the same way. I just feel too many people are aping the American IPA style of 'throw enough hops at it to get the IBU north of 60 and worry about the taste later'*. I just want something in at 4.5%, moderate bitterness, smooth. Good session IPA's seem to be the exception rather than the rule. The last date night I went on with my wife was at a local restaurant that we both like very much that was hosting a beer dinner with a local lager brewery I like very much. When talking about IPAs, the brewer made a comment stating that the term is essentially just short hand for "light-colored American craft beer." As a "style" it is too varied at this point to mean anything in particular. And it makes me long for the days when APA was a thing *coughavatarcough* which is a far better name- and a hell of a lot more patriotic!- for them. Lt_Tofu posted:New thread title right there folks. I stole this from someone else here. chitoryu12 posted:Just regular milk from Publix or Walmart. It happens like once or twice a year where it spoils a few days before the date on the jug. I have been buying a gallon of milk every week for almost 20 years- and even more now that there's a kid involved- and this has literally never happened to me.
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Jun 12, 2018 12:53
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danbanana posted:The last date night I went on with my wife was at a local restaurant that we both like very much that was hosting a beer dinner with a local lager brewery I like very much. When talking about IPAs, the brewer made a comment stating that the term is essentially just short hand for "light-colored American craft beer." As a "style" it is too varied at this point to mean anything in particular. And it makes me long for the days when APA was a thing *coughavatarcough* which is a far better name- and a hell of a lot more patriotic!- for them. Yeah I don't really know why the APA label faded away, American Hops just make such a significantly different style of beer it feels really disingenuous to just call them IPA's. The problem we have in the UK is that the US swamps us in terms of numbers so on rating sites the top rated IPA are always APA's with their 70+ IBU at 7%+, so breweries here look at that and think, better get on that train. It's really eroding the traditional beer styles as people chase trends.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:07
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The high ibu style has kinda died out here, where it's no longer a dick waving contest to see who can isomerize more*, and not many places are trying to hype them now. Sure you can still find them in a lot of places, but it's more of a matinee feature, not a top billed headliner. It's kinda like how a lot of europe is weirdly into Knight Rider and Chuck Norris, it just took a long time for the fad to cross the atlantic. *Now people are dry hopping as much as possible, even using refined lupulin powder and other high tech derivatives in order to prevent vegetal flavors from piling in all that green plant matter.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:26
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We're all aboard the dry hopping and double dry hopping train as well. The internet really has reduced that fad-lag a lot.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:35
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Aramoro posted:Yeah I don't really know why the APA label faded away, American Hops just make such a significantly different style of beer it feels really disingenuous to just call them IPA's. Also not a huge fan of ABV creep, but Fullers ESB is tastier than London Pride, so if you guys can just stop in that 5-6% range you're golden.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:40
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Aramoro posted:Yeah I don't really know why the APA label faded away, American Hops just make such a significantly different style of beer it feels really disingenuous to just call them IPA's. Even then so many brewers are using Australian and NZ hops as their primary that it doesn't really matter where the hops come from. Nor do the newer domestic hop varieties from the Pacific Northwest really resemble those you'd traditionally associate with American IPA hop profiles of the past. I can't remember the last Triple C profile IPA that I've had.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:59
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A lot about the NEIPA craze is pretty good. Lowering the bitterness has opened the style up to people who up til now would not drink IPA because of it, freshness is being taken more seriously and most breweries no longer rely on heaps of medium crystal malt to give their IPAs body. Still, I feel like most NEIPAs lack the crispness of the better west coast style examples. I know "juice" is the stated goal, but it does make NEIPAs somewhat less refreshing. Saisons are able to combine protein-heavy grainbills with really dry quenching finishes. I hope NE style pale ales end up going for that as well.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:14
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Biomute posted:Saisons are able to combine protein-heavy grainbills with really dry quenching finishes. I hope NE style pale ales end up going for that as well. A lot of that is because saison yeasts are voracious monsters that will ferment DI water. I love it.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:17
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Spanish Manlove posted:A lot of that is because saison yeasts are voracious monsters that will ferment DI water. I love it. Same. I think Trillium is probably going the right way by adding a bunch of dextrose/sugar to their beers, but I've not had their beers to confirm. In either case the ABV is just too drat high for drink-ability. 6-7% is plenty for an IPA I think.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:31
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