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euphronius posted:They already have a new trilogy in the works Yeah, I hope it's good. Like this current one Which rules
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Jun 12, 2018 01:53
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah, I hope it's good. Agreed But with that and one offs we are probably getting a new movie every 12 months or so.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:54
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euphronius posted:Agreed Yeah, they should probably relax on that schedule a bit.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:56
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PostNouveau posted:Y'all gonna have to give me some real-world analogy of what you think the First Order is as a part of the republic, because it don't make any sense to me. They're some kind of rebellion or something? Real-World Analogy: The Confederacy lost the American Civil War, but tons of Americans still rally under the Confederate battle flag. Problems in the ST are compounded by the fact that the Republic is a very loose collection of nation-states. To the extent that there is a ‘federal government’, it’s absolutely worthless garbage. The individual states can basically do whatever they want, and what the majority of people in those states want is Snoke. As Snoke gains power within the Republic, the current (massively unpopular) Republican leadership attempts to covertly sabotage him with black ops and propaganda, while overtly threatening him with their ‘precious fleet’. This backfires, badly. Without popular support or even a remotely sympathetic ideology, the Republicans are instantly hosed once they lose their military power. Again, the basic plot of the ST is that Leia and the Republic are horrendously unpopular, after squandering all their goodwill in just a matter of decades. multijoe posted:You can guess the First Order has the billion troops required to hold and control their territorial gains but the sequels have purposefully zoomed in the scope of their films onto the personal lives of a small number of Great People to the exclusion of all else, which is why Luke taking up his lasersword again and either Kylo or Rey flipping are considered credible gamechagers in an intergalactic war Bingo. The ST is meta propaganda.
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Jun 12, 2018 02:43
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The First Order are the strongest military force around but I don't think they actually have military control on the ground across the galaxy. They'll come kick your rear end if you oppose them but they aren't really "in control" in the traditional sense. The crawl text says that the First Order “reigns” and that Snoke is deploying his “merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.”
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Jun 12, 2018 03:02
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euphronius posted:They already have a new trilogy in the works It's not Episodes X-XII though. It's just athree part story set in the Star Wars universe
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Jun 12, 2018 03:26
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Everything's gonna be explained in episode 15, don't jump to conclusions before then
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Jun 12, 2018 03:29
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The crawl text says that the First Order “reigns” and that Snoke is deploying his “merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.” I think Starkiller's destruction of the Hosnian system, the New Republic leadership, and the New Republic fleet was their coup. They're now the biggest fish in the sea, with no organized government standing against them or in their way. They don't reign because they took over the government like the Empire did to the republic, they just have the biggest stick, and are using it to exert control.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:34
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Yeah I took it as "They are de facto the largest military power in the galaxy, therefore nobody's gonna tell them they're not in charge."
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Jun 12, 2018 03:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Problems in the ST are compounded by the fact that the Republic is a very loose collection of nation-states. To the extent that there is a ‘federal government’, it’s absolutely worthless garbage. The individual states can basically do whatever they want, and what the majority of people in those states want is Snoke. I'm just gonna start bolding the stuff you're pulling out of your rear end, feel free to come up with any evidence whatsoever.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:44
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you kind of have to pull stuff out of your rear end to be able to talk coherently about the ST's setting because the movies are so uninterested in explaining any of it but you can pretty easily infer that leia and her resistance are unpopular when they're left high and dry during TLJ
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Jun 12, 2018 03:51
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Brother Entropy posted:you kind of have to pull stuff out of your rear end to be able to talk coherently about the ST's setting because the movies are so uninterested in explaining any of it Maybe if it had occurred during TFA, but it's in the immediate wake of the destruction of the Hosnian system so whoever they're asking for help from might just be scared shitless of the people who blew up 5 planets at once.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:54
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PostNouveau posted:I'm just gonna start bolding the stuff you're pulling out of your rear end, feel free to come up with any evidence whatsoever. In TFA, five Republic planets blow up and no one gives a poo poo. Not even the heroes give a poo poo. In TLJ, the Resistance are directly compared to the First Order, and when they call for help at the end no one comes. By the end of the film, all twelve people who care are aboard a single ship.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:01
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Schwarzwald posted:By the end of the film, all twelve people who care are aboard a single ship. The end of the film shows that Luke Skywalker and the Resistance are a symbol of hope across the galaxy.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:03
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The end of the film shows that Luke Skywalker and the Resistance are a symbol of hope across the galaxy. Nah, it shows a slave boy admiring a trinket that Finn and Rose gave him in place of freeing him.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:10
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The end of the film shows that Luke Skywalker and the Resistance are a symbol of hope across the galaxy. True, but I've taken PoliSci 110 and mine eyes have seen the glory
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Jun 12, 2018 04:10
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Schwarzwald posted:In TFA, five Republic planets blow up and no one gives a poo poo. Not even the heroes give a poo poo. The destruction of the Hosnian system is what causes the Resistance to target Starkiller Base. It's the opposite of the heroes not giving a poo poo. It's fascinating how you guys can go into a really simple movie that's telling you a broad story about how the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad and come out of it like "Wow, those good guys sure were bad, huh?"
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Jun 12, 2018 04:11
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PostNouveau posted:The destruction of the Hosnian system is what causes the Resistance to target Starkiller Base. It's the opposite of the heroes not giving a poo poo. It's actually so simple that it's been criticized for being too simple, but here we are.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:18
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It seems like there's a need here to justify anyone's failure as being rooted in some kind of moral shortcoming. So the Republic doesn't see First Order threat coming. They must be massively unpopular liberals so everyone supports Snoke. Is there any justification for this?  Let's just take the Space Nazi giving a Space Hitler speech at his word.Leia fails to convince the Republic of her cause and the First Order wins the war. She must be a monarchist allied with the massively unpopular liberals who for some reason have feudalistic allies. Is there any support for this? I guess someone mentions she WAS once a princess.There's some kind of Just World pathology going on here that's twisting people in knots. But it's really simple storytelling. The failure of a good character (or group of them) to stop the villain creates a story gap. It's up to the main characters to close that story gap, and hey, look at these stakes we've set.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:30
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PostNouveau posted:It's fascinating how you guys can go into a really simple movie that's telling you a broad story about how the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad and come out of it like "Wow, those good guys sure were bad, huh?" "I had a dream I was in the Resistance. I came back here and freed all the slaves...have you come to free us?" The Good Guys: "Nah, we're here for the horses." PostNouveau posted:There's some kind of Just World pathology going on here that's twisting people in knots. But it's really simple storytelling. The failure of a good character (or group of them) to stop the villain creates a story gap. It's up to the main characters to close that story gap, and hey, look at these stakes we've set. The Republic was in charge of the galaxy for thirty years. In that time, they have failed to confront slavery. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 04:34
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jivjov posted:I think Starkiller's destruction of the Hosnian system, the New Republic leadership, and the New Republic fleet was their coup. They're now the biggest fish in the sea, with no organized government standing against them or in their way. They were at worst the second largest military in the galaxy just before they blew up five planets and nobody in the Republic actually cared to stop them outside of funneling a little money to a resistance who was resisting...what? They are simultaneously meant to be Al Qaeda and Imperial Japan, simultaneously powerful enough to conquer the galaxy in days but also so small scale that the Republic can’t even be bothered to wage open war against them. This only make sense if the Republic the cant wage war against them because they are part of the republic and this is all just internecine squabbling or a military junta, which also clarifies why nobody else wants to get involved...because it’s not an invasion it’s a civil war.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:37
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PostNouveau posted:It seems like there's a need here to justify anyone's failure as being rooted in some kind of moral shortcoming. the specific failures that the protagonists make says something about the protagonists, though. the resistance lacks trust in each other, and they've lost the trust of the outside allies they needed before luke showed up. why is this and why can't it be the reasons you're dismissing?
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Jun 12, 2018 04:39
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The majority of the FO's actions were done in secret, their HQ in the Unknown Regions. Combine that with the New Republic not having much of a fleet (the senate voted to best most military power in with individual systems, rather than have a standing army), and yeah there wasn't much of a fight the New Republic COULD put up.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:40
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Brother Entropy posted:the specific failures that the protagonists make says something about the protagonists, though. the resistance lacks trust in each other, and they've lost the trust of the outside allies they needed before luke showed up. why is this and why can't it be the reasons you're dismissing? It's not impossible. It's super duper unlikely and there's no evidence to support it. I'd put the "the Republic is massively unpopular and everyone loves Snoke and that's why the First Order succeed" explanation as about as likely as "No one answered the distress call because they hate Leia's new haircut".
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Jun 12, 2018 04:46
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I'm like 85% sure the reason is gonna be "Yeah we were dealing with our own poo poo, you know" *points out window to star destroyer leveling an entire continent*
Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 05:14
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Cross-Section posted:I'm like 85% sure the reason is gonna be "Yeah we were dealing with our own poo poo, you know" *points out window to star destroyer leveling an entire continent* "It's a union dispute, you wouldn't want the details"
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Jun 12, 2018 05:19
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PostNouveau posted:"It's a union dispute, you wouldn't want the details" I’m still a little amazed they took the wizened old sage character from the last movie and implied that she's killing pro-union workers.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:29
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Zoran posted:I’m still a little amazed they took the wizened old sage character from the last movie and implied that she's killing pro-union workers. Like, PERSONALLY killing them too. No pinkertons for Maz!
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Jun 12, 2018 05:32
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PostNouveau posted:Like, PERSONALLY killing them too. No pinkertons for Maz! I guess that does speak to what the Resistance stands for, seeing as how she's still a good friend to their leadership.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:36
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Zoran posted:I guess that does speak to what the Resistance stands for, seeing as how she's still a good friend to their leadership. Mmhmm, yep you got it they're basically as bad as the space nazis, that's definitely the intended reading of the film it's a good thing we're the only people smart enough to see it.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:38
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PostNouveau posted:Mmhmm, yep you got it they're basically as bad as the space nazis, that's definitely the intended reading of the film it's a good thing we're the only people smart enough to see it. What does the FO actually stand for? What are their policies and beliefs?
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Jun 12, 2018 05:40
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PostNouveau posted:Mmhmm, yep you got it they're basically as bad as the space nazis, that's definitely the intended reading of the film it's a good thing we're the only people smart enough to see it. It’s just a bewildering character turn after what we saw from her in TFA. Think about what you’re putting into your movie Rian Johnson. These things matter.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:42
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YOLOsubmarine posted:What does the FO actually stand for? What are their policies and beliefs? Mustache-twirling villainy from the look of it. Lindsey Ellis had a pretty good video about it, calling it Ur-Fascism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAVeyXwy3BE
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Jun 12, 2018 05:42
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Jun 12, 2018 05:43
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PostNouveau posted:Mmhmm, yep you got it they're basically as bad as the space nazis, that's definitely the intended reading of the film it's a good thing we're the only people smart enough to see it. I didn’t say that, and I don’t understand where this is coming from. I’m just pointing out that it's yet more evidence that the Republic did very little to help the powerless. This is also shown on the casino planet and on Jakku.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:43
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sponges posted:It’s just a bewildering character turn after what we saw from her in TFA. He made a near perfect movie so I don’t know what the gently caress you’re on about
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Jun 12, 2018 05:43
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Zoran posted:This is also shown on the casino planet and on Jakku. It's unclear if either is in the Republic. The war merchants double-dealing would indicate Canto Bight is neutral.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:45
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CelticPredator posted:He made a near perfect movie so I don’t know what the gently caress you’re on about A near perfect movie 
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Jun 12, 2018 05:45
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Yeah. It’s amazing. And it killed the hopes and dreams of star war fans? My god, it’s done more good than most movies!
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Jun 12, 2018 05:47
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CelticPredator posted:Yeah. It’s amazing. And it killed the hopes and dreams of star war fans? My god, it’s done more good than most movies! We already got warmed over OT with TFA.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:49
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