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Well... that was unpleasant.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:31
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| # ? May 20, 2024 23:08 |
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The writer really knows how to sell that place as not-good. Ick.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:44
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Given the kinds of puzzles and fantasy elements we've faced so far, I have this sinking feeling that the dreaded al-Gibra is a system of simultaneous equations we need to solve with algebra, but given that that word also means "Unity" we could get some kind of horrible fused flesh monster thing like The Many. Either way, it seems like a job for Spaceman Spiff.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:27
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The dreaded Trial of Al-Gibra is to solve Fermat's Last Theorem. Andrew Wiles was the first to solve the riddle and continue on to the next maze/level.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:54
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I'm choosing to believe that we have a pet bird with us from now on. 
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Jun 12, 2018 04:26
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Iunnrais posted:The writer really knows how to sell that place as not-good. Ick. The wonder of text-based games is your own imagination can sometimes work better than seeing explicit visuals.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:52
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Level Two: The Wrong River In which we at last encounter one of those puzzles.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:47
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Oh joy. Let's see. Achmed cannot be a Tredu, since if he were he'd be lying about it and they don't lie, so at least half his statement is true. Therefore he can't be a Famani either. Achmed is therefore a Wahoun and therefore the second part of his statement is false. This means Dhuja is not a Tredu. We don't know if his statement is true or not; he is either Famani or Wahoun. If Dhuja is a Wahoun then Bana's statement is a lie, making Bana a Famani (since there are a maximum of two Wahoun) and thus making Charoun NOT a Famani. If so, Charoun cannot be telling the truth about there being two Famani, so he can't be a Tredu, but we already have two Wahoun. So this is wrong. Therefore Dhuja must be a Famani, and there is only one Wahoun. This means half of Bana's statement is wrong, and since there is only one Wahoun then both halves must be a lie; he must also be Famani. This means Charoun is telling the truth and is therefore Tredu. Achmed = Wahoun, Bana = Famani, Charoun = Tredu, Dhuja = Famani. And all four of them need to get a life and stop holding a snake's eggs hostage for shits and giggles.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:17
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Black Robe posted:And all four of them need to get a life and stop holding a snake's eggs hostage for shits and giggles. Obviously they've already feasted on giant snake egg omelette, they're just taunting the snake with the riddle to be dicks.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:36
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Hastily scribbled notes for this one, but it seems super straightforward; A / B / C / D T = Always tells the truth F = Always lie W = Alternate between truth and lie. A = I am not T, but D is. B = I am W, and C is F. C = 2 are F. D = 2 are W. A cannot be T (would be telling truth about NOT being T which is a paradox), and cannot be F (same). Therefore A = W and D is not T. B cannot be T (as above), but could be F or W. D cannot be T (as per A) but can be W or F. C must be T as no one else as can. Therefore B and D are F as two must be F. Achmed = Wahoun Bana = Famani Charoun = Tredu Dhuja = Famani
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Jun 12, 2018 14:54
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Y'all beat me to it while I was working on my chart.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:56
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I do feel like it's interesting that everyone who's answered so far (myself included) has arrived at the same answer but all sort of worked it out in a different order? A: A!=T, D=T B: B=W, C=F C: two F D: two W A must be W (T would always claim T, F would never claim "not T" (though could claim to be specifically W)); first statement is thus true so second false, thus D is not T If B's first statement is true, then B is W, then C must be T (statements must be T/F so C isn't F, and we know there's no more than two of any tribe so C can't also be W), but if C is T then there's two F so B can't be W: contradiction If B's first statement is false, then B is not W, and thus B must be F One of C and D must be false, as they are in conflict with the statement that only one tribe has two present. But if D is true, the two W must be himself and A (as A established D is not T); this means C is T and always speaks truth. Thus C is T and this makes D F. A=W, B=F, C=T, D=F
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Jun 12, 2018 16:27
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This puzzle seems questionable. The only way to solve it is to assume that Achmed is really supposed to be making 2 separate statements "I am not a Tredu" and "Dhuja is a Tredu." like all the previous posters are doing, even though in the puzzle it's only one statement equivalent to "I am not a Tredu and Dhuja is" (which leads to 4 possible answers FFTW FWTF WWFT WFWT). Plus the description of the Wahouns is useless unless at least one person is making multiple statements (otherwise why not just say Wahouns can both lie and tell the truth).
whitehelm fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 16:39
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All right... Achmed appears to be the key we must start with. If he were Tredu, he would not claim not to be Tredu. If he were Famani, he would also not say 'I am not Tredu'. Thus he must be Wahoun. As Wahoun alternate true and false statements, his next claim, that Dhuja is a Tredu, must be false. Bana is either Wahoun or Famani, as his claim to be Wahoun could not be made by a Tredu. If he is Wahoun, his following claim is false, since the first one is true. If he is Famani, his following claim is also false, since everything he says is false. We thus know Charoun is Tredu or Wahoun. If we assume Charoun is Wahoun, Bana must be Famani, as no tribe has more than two members, and his being Wahoun would make three Wahoun. But if Bana is Famani, that would leave Dhuja as Tredu, which we know is false. Thus Charoun is Tredu, which means that both Bana and Dhuja are Famani. As such- Achmed is Wahoun, Bana Famani, Charoun Tredu, and Dhuja Famani.
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Jun 12, 2018 17:54
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For what it's worth, I'm getting the same answers as everyone else.
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Jun 12, 2018 19:16
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Got the same answer as everyone else, but in this order: Achmed cannot be Tredu because he says he isn't, which would be a lie. He cannot be Famani because he says he's not Tredu. So he is Wahoun, and Dhuja isn't Tredu. Bana cannot be Tredu because he says he is wahoun. Since there is at least one Tredu, that leaves Charoun, who must be. Charoun is telling the truth, so there are two Famani. We know one Wahoun and one Tredu so the other two are Famani. I like how many different ways there are to reach the same conclusion.
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Jun 12, 2018 21:23
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whitehelm posted:This puzzle seems questionable. The only way to solve it is to assume that Achmed is really supposed to be making 2 separate statements "I am not a Tredu" and "Dhuja is a Tredu." like all the previous posters are doing, even though in the puzzle it's only one statement equivalent to "I am not a Tredu and Dhuja is" (which leads to 4 possible answers FFTW FWTF WWFT WFWT). Plus the description of the Wahouns is useless unless at least one person is making multiple statements (otherwise why not just say Wahouns can both lie and tell the truth). Yeah, a compound statement is not the same as two separate statements. It's a puzzle that only works when you assume it, though, so the solutions given is what we should use. Also, this got disgustingly offensive with the treatment of Islam. There are Chick tracts that aren't as bad as this.
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Jun 12, 2018 21:43
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Nakar posted:Level Two: The Wrong River With the title of the update, I was really worried you meant one of those puzzles... the "take the goat, the grain, and the fox across the river but watch out the fox eats the goat and the goat eats the grain" ones.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:12
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whitehelm posted:This puzzle seems questionable. The only way to solve it is to assume that Achmed is really supposed to be making 2 separate statements "I am not a Tredu" and "Dhuja is a Tredu." like all the previous posters are doing, even though in the puzzle it's only one statement equivalent to "I am not a Tredu and Dhuja is" (which leads to 4 possible answers FFTW FWTF WWFT WFWT). Plus the description of the Wahouns is useless unless at least one person is making multiple statements (otherwise why not just say Wahouns can both lie and tell the truth). How I solved it: Realizing the crux of the problem is that only A and B are allowed to be potentially Wahoun because they make two statements each, and by extension C and D cannot be Wahoun, additionally one of them must be a Tredu and the other a Famani because their statements directly contradict each other.
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Jun 13, 2018 06:10
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Level Two: Multiplayer Features In which we help a snake learn logic, continue our bird vandalism spree, and try very hard not to meet a wizard.
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Jun 13, 2018 13:59
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Nakar posted:And yes, "Evil Vizier" is capitalized. I presume that's his official job title. It's redundant, all viziers are evil.
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Jun 13, 2018 14:47
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Meeting a Houri at random was super unexpected and implies that the Messenger knight guy is actually for real dead.
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Jun 13, 2018 15:18
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Black Robe posted:It's redundant, all viziers are evil. Dragonatrix posted:Meeting a Houri at random was super unexpected and implies that the Messenger knight guy is actually for real dead.
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Jun 13, 2018 15:58
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quote:I feel like maybe this was a puzzle at some point? But no, you just arrive here, get told by a pretty lady that it's cool, and it is indeed cool. Go figure. We were warned that the MadMaze would confound our expectations.
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Jun 14, 2018 05:32
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Level Two: A Plain Hint In which the tables are turned, and then... unturned?
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Jun 14, 2018 16:29
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So is this a mix of two different things in Last Crusade? The praying person doesn't get their head cut off AND gets to cross the invisible bridge? 
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Jun 15, 2018 04:28
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Level Two: One Bazaar Encounter After Another In which mazes are hard. Let's go shopping! Gloomy Rube posted:So is this a mix of two different things in Last Crusade? The praying person doesn't get their head cut off AND gets to cross the invisible bridge?
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Jun 15, 2018 14:33
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For all we know, those hints are relevant...to different paths through the maze than the one we are taking. It'd be entirely in-character for a game of this era to tell us information that sounds plausible but is in fact completely irrelevant to us.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:09
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I'm meta gaming here, but if the PoPs don't remember states, would it matter if we skipped the jug and rug?
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Jun 15, 2018 23:07
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Domus posted:I'm meta gaming here, but if the PoPs don't remember states, would it matter if we skipped the jug and rug? Technically, but notice how all these magical artifacts require saying various magic words. So you'd need to brute-force the correct words.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:10
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Level Two: Only One Right Answer In which every answer is wrong, except cheating. I'm extremely pleased that they put that shaman reaction in there. Domus posted:I'm meta gaming here, but if the PoPs don't remember states, would it matter if we skipped the jug and rug? Zanzibar Ham posted:Technically, but notice how all these magical artifacts require saying various magic words. So you'd need to brute-force the correct words. Though this update does show the occasional weird results that may arise from trying to brute force the game. Boy are you in trouble if you warp back to the shaman without even knowing who he is and then save after leaving!
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Jun 16, 2018 01:17
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I like how much work they put into the "wrong" options. It's rarely just "you are dead," some of them are almost entire short storylines in their own right.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:03
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Nakar posted:Though this update does show the occasional weird results that may arise from trying to brute force the game. Boy are you in trouble if you warp back to the shaman without even knowing who he is and then save after leaving!
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Jun 16, 2018 09:50
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Level Two: The Burning River In which we finally get that water the shaman wanted for... whatever reason he wanted it. Then someone screws up the djinn's password. PurpleXVI posted:I like how much work they put into the "wrong" options. It's rarely just "you are dead," some of them are almost entire short storylines in their own right. I get why they did it: They wanted to make it look like maybe there's a right answer other than the carpet, so they put in a bunch of branching options that all seem like they might go somewhere if you made a slightly different choice. But nope, they're all dead ends. curiousCat posted:That just sounds awful and also like it's from personal experience.
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Jun 16, 2018 13:44
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Level Two: Separating The Sheep From The Goats In which we have some remarkably friendly interactions, and must help our new friends solve a puzzle. Do not read the spoilers if you do not want the extra hint for this puzzle. I won't say whether it's solvable without the hint, but I will say that I've tried to solve it both ways and I don't think it's particularly difficult to figure out.
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Jun 17, 2018 13:32
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I scrolled back up for the hint the second I saw what type of puzzle it is. I hate these things. Gattar will get more goats than his cousin, so he'll get at least five of the nine. He'll get more sheep than goats, so at least six sheep. There are only seven sheep and his cousin gets at least one. Gattar gets five goats and six sheep. His cousin gets four goats and one sheep. Doesn't seem like fair distribution to me, but there you go. Nice and easy with the hint. As for whether it's possible to solve without the hint, I assume so but you might end up with multiple possible answers and have to brute-force to check which one is right.
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Jun 17, 2018 13:46
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It is totally solvable without the hint. As such: There are sixteen animals total, with more goats than sheep. So, at a minimum, there are nine goats; possibly more. Any less then there are either more or equal sheep than goats, or less than 16 total. The nomad receives more goats than his cousin. So, at a minimum, the nomad receives five goats (any less means the cousin gets more goats). The nomad gets more sheep than goats, so at a minimum, he gets six sheep. Since the cousin receives at least one sheep, if he gets the minimum of one, then there are seven sheep - added to the minimum nine goats you get the 16 total. So these are all the lower bound, but if you add even one to any of these values then you're breaking a rule, so it must also be the upper bound. The nomad gets 5 goats and 6 sheep, the cousin gets 4 goats and 1 sheep.
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Jun 17, 2018 13:56
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It's solvable without the hint because there are only finitely many possible solutions. You can just check them all.
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Jun 17, 2018 16:02
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There are 16 total animals, and there are more goats than sheep so there has to be one of 9 goats/7 sheep, 10/6, 11/5, etc. If the distribution was anything other than the first, Gattar would have to have at least 6 goats (in order to have more goats than the cousin by clue 4), and thus at least 7 sheep (clue 3 says he gets more sheep than goats) which is impossible for those combinations. Therefore there are 9 goats and 7 sheep. Gattar must have at least 5 of the goats and at least 6 sheep by clues 3&4. This leaves a maximum of 1 sheep for the cousin, which is also the minimum by clue 5 meaning its the only possible answer. Gattar has 5 goats and 6 sheep, the cousin has 4 goats and 1 sheep.
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Jun 17, 2018 16:12
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| # ? May 20, 2024 23:08 |
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ultrafilter posted:It's solvable without the hint because there are only finitely many possible solutions. You can just check them all. This isn't necessarily going to be the case - if the hint were required, that means the rules given don't rule out every potential wrong answer. So solving it without the hint by brute force only works if it's possible to solve it without the hint by logic.
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Jun 17, 2018 16:14
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