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Guy Goodbody posted:My one concern is how that would work out for Europe. A lot of European countries have small armies because of NATO, theoretically at least if France is attacked they'll have the entire US army on their side. France withdrew from NATO in 1966 and didn't rejoin until 2009 lol
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Jun 13, 2018 17:54
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Guy Goodbody posted:lol why? because de gaulle hated NATO
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Jun 13, 2018 17:54
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historically, wars of aggression have been from the western countries and first world against russia even if russia wanted to invade europe, they wouldn't do it because their economies are intertwined and europe has nuclear weapons as a deterrent russia's military budget is also much smaller than that of combined european countries 
comedyblissoption has issued a correction as of 17:58 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 17:56
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https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1006913352315080705?s=21
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Jun 13, 2018 17:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because de gaulle hated NATO "including the ones buried there  ?"
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Jun 13, 2018 17:58
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btw ICE is running concentration camps
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Jun 13, 2018 17:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:lol why? Standard early Cold War paranoia coupled with Gaullist chauvenism about having otherwise to depend on the Anglo-Americans for nuclear deterrence.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:00
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France is most def not an example of "a country that has a small army because of NATO", the french military is one of the few that still has the means to do actual proper boots on the ground imperialism on its own, usually in Africa, which is regularly a cause of huge scandals when it turns out that oops it was all for some fat parisian with 8 names and they may have committed war crimes in the process. Germany is closer to that but even with being way below NATO obligations, the german military is still mostly on par with Russia's at worst. Also technically France was still in NATO, it just wasn't in joint command structures. Mainly their plan for the cold war going hot was just to nuke whoever decided it was time to cross the Rhine with tanks, no questions asked.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:00
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comedyblissoption posted:france has nuclear weapons lol practically, the lesson every country should take away is that they need to have nukes, and if they don't they should telegraph that they do. we talk a big game about DE-nuclearization, but being in the club has it's advantages. either that or a Dr. Strangelove style doomsday device would be sufficent
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Jun 13, 2018 18:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:who's going to attack France? The Corpseduke of Wellington and his Army of the Damned. Boney will never see it coming.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:03
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russia themselves had legitimate fears of being invaded again during the cold war russia was invaded by tens of thousands of troops from multiple imperialist foreign powers in 1918 right after world war 1 russia was invaded by imperialist germany in world war 2 with basically no support from the allies and tacit approval for an invasion
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Jun 13, 2018 18:04
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Re Tanden: people should just qt her tweets welcoming Modi at herquote:and if they don't they should telegraph that they do. A Liechtenstein-esque central european principality somehow convincing the world it had nukes is basically the plot of the mouse that roared
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Jun 13, 2018 18:04
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Agnosticnixie posted:Also technically France was still in NATO, it just wasn't in joint command structures. Mainly their plan for the cold war going hot was just to nuke whoever decided it was time to cross the Rhine with tanks, no questions asked.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:05
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I'm not sure why you guys just assuming that the EU and NATO will last forever and therefore any potential war in Europe could only be "everyone vs Russia"
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Jun 13, 2018 18:05
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm not sure why you guys just assuming that the EU and NATO will last forever and therefore any potential war in Europe could only be "everyone vs Russia" I don't know about assuming NATO will last forever, but I certainly hope it doesn't
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Jun 13, 2018 18:09
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NATO is mainly an organization intended to be belligerent to self-proclaimed socialist countries the EU as it stands exists as a way to impose neoliberal finance capitalism on its members I don't think these institutions are really central to preventing european countries from waging hot wars against each other
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Jun 13, 2018 18:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm not sure why you guys just assuming that the EU and NATO will last forever and therefore any potential war in Europe could only be "everyone vs Russia" If somehow an intra european war happens, NATO providing defence for anyone is going to be the least of anyone's worries. Also the last intra-european war that happened with NATO around - NATO only intervened at the last minute - NATO spent half the intervention just kinda standing there and debating whether it was actually that bad if the people getting genocided were muslims - American media couldn't stop itself from whining about the fact that the Bosniaks were getting arms from Iran because NATO was mostly interested in supporting Croatia and just standing there like idiots during Sarajevo Basically I'm pretty sure any scenario that's not a Russia-EU war, NATO is going to be useless anyway. Or worse, it's going to actually legit side with the fascists; NATO stay-behind networks probably have a lot to answer for for the continued existence of the far right as potent political forces through the period and probably even to this day in a couple european countries. Agnosticnixie has issued a correction as of 18:19 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 18:10
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Agnosticnixie posted:A Liechtenstein-esque central european principality somehow convincing the world it had nukes is basically the plot of the mouse that roared nuclear andorra is strong
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Jun 13, 2018 18:16
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Agnosticnixie posted:A Liechtenstein-esque central european principality somehow convincing the world it had nukes is basically the plot of the mouse that roared jeez i forgot about that movie
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Jun 13, 2018 18:17
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Thanks Tim kaine! Proposed by Senators Tim Kaine and Bob Corker, its radicalism approaches that of a constitutional amendment. Their new AUMF would subvert an article at the core of the Constitution, gutting a vital protection against tyranny devised by the Framers. It would authorize multiple existing wars without even debating them individually. It would empower Trump and his successors to unilaterally wage war in new countries, expand their ability to indefinitely detain prisoners without charges, and empower them to unilaterally kill individuals even inside the United States https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/congress-may-declare-the-forever-war/562175/?utm_source=atlfb
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Jun 13, 2018 18:23
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Uncle Wemus posted:Thanks Tim kaine! america's step-dad at it again
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Jun 13, 2018 18:25
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comedyblissoption posted:it's almost like liberals are running entirely on a platform of only being trump contrarians they've had plenty of practice opposing it even w/out his support, lol.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:29
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Uncle Wemus posted:Thanks Tim kaine! Why is Kaine so loving stupid
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Jun 13, 2018 18:35
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Poland has a not insignificant army and air force. They are in the middle of a modernization drive and are well trained. The recent uh...unreliability of the us has a lot of people looking into a pan european army again.god knows how that would work out. The problem is a lot of support infrastucture and equipment if from us companies.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:38
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didn’t the polish Air Force kill half their government a couple of years ago
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Jun 13, 2018 18:43
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https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1006950190568366081 he's literally trying to pull a stunt
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Jun 13, 2018 18:45
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Grondoth posted:Why is Kaine so loving stupid he's a lib, op has never been to la biblioteca
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Jun 13, 2018 18:53
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Uncle Wemus posted:Thanks Tim kaine! Kaine's going to tweet that it was a honest mistake and that he cosponsored purely by accident in like a week like Kennedy the moment he gets pressed about it.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:54
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Agnosticnixie posted:Kaine's going to tweet that it was a honest mistake and that he cosponsored purely by accident in like a week like Kennedy the moment he gets pressed about it. He tripped and fell face-first onto his keyboard and a Foreverwar AUMF just happened.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:58
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https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1006898841830883329
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Jun 13, 2018 18:59
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wow hard to imagine why dems won’t support these extremely popular policies https://twitter.com/topherspiro/status/1006892223970074624?s=21 https://twitter.com/jstein_wapo/status/1006908340881027075?s=21
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Jun 13, 2018 19:01
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shocking and offensive lack of decorum
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Jun 13, 2018 19:08
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The US would be a better place if it had an equivalent for the Prime Minister's question sessions at the state and federal level.
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Jun 13, 2018 19:10
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wait obamacare is only at 6%? goddamnit of course it is its a horse-poo poo half measure no one likes! healthcare really is the thing that's exposing the democrats for what they are.
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Jun 13, 2018 19:19
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Thoguh posted:The US would be a better place if it had an equivalent for the Prime Minister's question sessions at the state and federal level. Hell yes, heck even Jon Stewart used to call for that
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Jun 13, 2018 19:19
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The US version of PMQ would just make people even more disgusted at congress because it would be 50% bipartisan decorum circlejerking
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Jun 13, 2018 19:20
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american pmqs would be Mr. President, Sir! With all due respect, Mr. President! Sir!
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Jun 13, 2018 19:30
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That prolonged laughter and Teresa's rage
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Jun 13, 2018 19:30
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Uncle Wemus posted:Thanks Tim kaine! a Progressive who likes to Get Things Done
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Jun 13, 2018 19:30
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1006944445516926976
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Jun 13, 2018 19:33
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