Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

GotLag posted:

The examples that come to my mind are that Japanese doesn't distinguish rats/mice or bees/wasps, other than by having names for species thereof.

I can't remember which animal, but there's one that Japanese refers to with the same counting word used for fish or birds (I think it's rabbits?) to emphasize that they thought of them as basically mindless flocks that were okay to kill and eat en masse.

# ? Jun 14, 2018 23:14

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# ? May 19, 2024 09:55

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

HorrificExistence posted:

speaking of
color and language is actually a crazy big field of study.

People have even mapped out the path languages take to develop colors, Going from white/black to red and eventually blue, yellow, purple ect. It's probably why Homer called the sea wine colored.

a lot of that is on pretty shaky ground

also isn't it traditionally believed homer (insofar as any 'homer' existed) was blind?

# ? Jun 14, 2018 23:15

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

The difference in color terms (bronze sky, wine sea) in many cases is due to talking about different conditions. English speakers tend to think of the ocean as blue for cultural reasons, but if you go out to the beach and look in many places it is definitely NOT blue, but brown or green or gray. The same for the sky depending on the time of the day and the conditions.

For the Hellenes of that period, wine could easily have been the more intrinsic color of the ocean than blue entirely for cultural reasons, and bronze the more intrinsic color of the sky, even as they recognized that both could be entirely other colors at different times and places.

In fact that same cultural understanding even extends to bronze, which modern English speakers tend to understand as sort of red-brown or yellow-brown. But that's not the only color bronze can take. Bronze often takes on what we would call a blue/green color when it develops a patina, which does happen just from every day use and not just being corrosion. It's entirely possible the Hellenes saw that as the natural or intrinsic color of bronze rather than the bright yellow- or red-brown of unused, recently made bronze.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 00:07

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

If we're doing animal names my favorite German one is the shield-frog

turtle

# ? Jun 15, 2018 00:13

Don Gato: Apr 28, 2013; Actually a bipedal cat.; Grimey Drawer

龍蝦/lóng xīa for lobster is my favorite.

It means Dragon Shrimp :black101:

# ? Jun 15, 2018 00:29

frankenfreak: Feb 16, 2007; I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

Cyrano4747 posted:

If we're doing animal names my favorite German one is the shield-frog

turtle

shield-toad :eng101:

# ? Jun 15, 2018 01:50

Epicurius: Apr 10, 2010; College Slice

So I got to thinking about Paradox games today, and specifically, the game Crusader Kings. If you've never heard of Crusader Kings, in it, you play a medieval noble who fights wars, tries to marry well, govern your people, raise heirs, plot with and against other nobles, and does all the stuff a medieval noble did.

Now, in Crusader Kings, the Mongols show up with these giant unstoppable armies, and they do their best to ravage the middle east, and eastern Europe, and do their best to take over everything before ultimately falling apart. The designers wanted to do something similar for western Europe, so they created a DC called Sunset Invasion, where in 1350, the Aztec show up with giant armies in Portugal or Ireland, and do the same thing. Even putting aside the boat question (the fluff has them learning how to build seahorse boats from the Vikings on Greenland or something.), I'm just thinking, "Wow, the Aztec are a terrible choice for your dooms tack villian."

See, the thing is, I think most Americans and Europeans don't know much about the Aztec, other than the human sacrifice thing and that the Spanish took them over, and there seems to be the impression that the Aztec were some ancient empire. They were not.

The Aztec don't show up in records at all until around 1300, when they migrated into central Mexico from either northern Mexico or the American Southwest, and didn't found the city of Tenochtitlan until 1325. Tenochtitlan was a fairly minor power until 1428, when it became part of an an alliance with two neighboring city states against the Tepanec, who had taken over large parts of the area, but we're in disarray after the Tepanec ruler had been poisoned by his sons.

So by the time Cortes showed up, the "Aztec Empire" (really a confederation) was less than a hundred years old, and just in the middle of an expansionist phase.

It just seems amazing that you'd pick the Aztec here.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 03:02

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I mean, the Mongols were pretty loving new as a unified political entity too...

I just think it's fitting that the first big polity toppled by Europeans in the New World becomes the one that shows up to topple Europeans in the old world. Poetic irony.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 03:22

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

i mean if you want an expansionist new world polity the Comanches loving ripped and that one finnish guy wrote a book on them, but that's too late

# ? Jun 15, 2018 03:23

Don Gato: Apr 28, 2013; Actually a bipedal cat.; Grimey Drawer

HEY GUNS posted:

i mean if you want an expansionist new world polity the Comanches loving ripped and that one finnish guy wrote a book on them, but that's too late

We've already got Aztecs sailing across the Atlantic in 1300 while wielding early modern firearms shaped like Quetzalcoatl, I don't think a few more anachronisms will hurt.

Slightly related to that, but I loved how there were unique models for Mesoamericans in EU IV in the unlikely circumstance that they survive longer than a century. The late Aztec infantry with a gold helmet and elaborately embroidered coat is a personal favorite of mine.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 03:46

darthbob88: Oct 13, 2011; YOSPOS

Epicurius posted:

So I got to thinking about Paradox games today, and specifically, the game Crusader Kings. If you've never heard of Crusader Kings, in it, you play a medieval noble who fights wars, tries to marry well, govern your people, raise heirs, plot with and against other nobles, and does all the stuff a medieval noble did.

Now, in Crusader Kings, the Mongols show up with these giant unstoppable armies, and they do their best to ravage the middle east, and eastern Europe, and do their best to take over everything before ultimately falling apart. The designers wanted to do something similar for western Europe, so they created a DC called Sunset Invasion, where in 1350, the Aztec show up with giant armies in Portugal or Ireland, and do the same thing. Even putting aside the boat question (the fluff has them learning how to build seahorse boats from the Vikings on Greenland or something.), I'm just thinking, "Wow, the Aztec are a terrible choice for your dooms tack villian."

See, the thing is, I think most Americans and Europeans don't know much about the Aztec, other than the human sacrifice thing and that the Spanish took them over, and there seems to be the impression that the Aztec were some ancient empire. They were not.

The Aztec don't show up in records at all until around 1300, when they migrated into central Mexico from either northern Mexico or the American Southwest, and didn't found the city of Tenochtitlan until 1325. Tenochtitlan was a fairly minor power until 1428, when it became part of an an alliance with two neighboring city states against the Tepanec, who had taken over large parts of the area, but we're in disarray after the Tepanec ruler had been poisoned by his sons.

So by the time Cortes showed up, the "Aztec Empire" (really a confederation) was less than a hundred years old, and just in the middle of an expansionist phase.

It just seems amazing that you'd pick the Aztec here.

And just to make matters better, the Aztec invasion can be triggered at any time, as early as the 7 or 800s, centuries before they were historically founded.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:12

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Comrade Gorbash posted:

The difference in color terms (bronze sky, wine sea) in many cases is due to talking about different conditions. English speakers tend to think of the ocean as blue for cultural reasons, but if you go out to the beach and look in many places it is definitely NOT blue, but brown or green or gray.

The Greeks were on the Mediterranean though. Have you seen it in person? Unlike eg the English Channel the Med is in fact very, very blue indeed.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:20

Gnoman: Feb 12, 2014; Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme

Comrade Gorbash posted:

The difference in color terms (bronze sky, wine sea) in many cases is due to talking about different conditions. English speakers tend to think of the ocean as blue for cultural reasons, but if you go out to the beach and look in many places it is definitely NOT blue, but brown or green or gray. The same for the sky depending on the time of the day and the conditions.

For the Hellenes of that period, wine could easily have been the more intrinsic color of the ocean than blue entirely for cultural reasons, and bronze the more intrinsic color of the sky, even as they recognized that both could be entirely other colors at different times and places.

In fact that same cultural understanding even extends to bronze, which modern English speakers tend to understand as sort of red-brown or yellow-brown. But that's not the only color bronze can take. Bronze often takes on what we would call a blue/green color when it develops a patina, which does happen just from every day use and not just being corrosion. It's entirely possible the Hellenes saw that as the natural or intrinsic color of bronze rather than the bright yellow- or red-brown of unused, recently made bronze.

It isn't "the wine colored sea". It is the "wine dark sea". An easy and obvious explanation is that the color of the sea is of the same richness as that of wine, even if the exact color is different.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:32

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

feedmegin posted:

The Greeks were on the Mediterranean though. Have you seen it in person? Unlike eg the English Channel the Med is in fact very, very blue indeed.

in the evening or morning the sea can look reddish

and wine-dark just owns as a phrase, have yall not considered that homer just thought it owned

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:33

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Don Gato posted:

We've already got Aztecs sailing across the Atlantic in 1300 while wielding early modern firearms shaped like Quetzalcoatl, I don't think a few more anachronisms will hurt.

Slightly related to that, but I loved how there were unique models for Mesoamericans in EU IV in the unlikely circumstance that they survive longer than a century. The late Aztec infantry with a gold helmet and elaborately embroidered coat is a personal favorite of mine.

EU4 has a whole range of settings for taking Sunset Invasion into account, creating a High American culture and positing an Aztec Empire that stretches from South America to North, where they have problems with their equally high tech Inca and Iroquois neighbors respectively.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:43

OneTruePecos: Oct 24, 2010

Cyrano4747 posted:

If we're doing animal names my favorite German one is the shield-frog

turtle

That, and thorn-pig for porcupine.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 04:56

Ataxerxes: Dec 2, 2011; What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

i mean if you want an expansionist new world polity the Comanches loving ripped and that one finnish guy wrote a book on them, but that's too late

Which one is that? I hadn't heard of it.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 05:06

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Cyrano4747 posted:

If we're doing animal names my favorite German one is the shield-frog

turtle

Lohikäärme, Finnish for salmon and snake mashed together,

Tip 1
Majestic

Tip 2
Often depicted on heraldry

means dragon :3:

# ? Jun 15, 2018 05:07

HorrificExistence: Jun 25, 2017; by Athanatos

Gnoman posted:

It isn't "the wine colored sea". It is the "wine dark sea". An easy and obvious explanation is that the color of the sea is of the same richness as that of wine, even if the exact color is different.

This just further supports the use of light/dark contrast rather than color.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 05:13

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Ataxerxes posted:

Which one is that? I hadn't heard of it.

Pekka Hamalainen

# ? Jun 15, 2018 05:17

Ataxerxes: Dec 2, 2011; What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

Pekka Hamalainen

Thanks! I'll have to look it up.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 05:25

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

IIRC the German word for a Turkey is "Dangerous Chicken" or something to that effect. But the one that's really stuck with me is that Guinea Pigs are called "Ocean Piglets."

# ? Jun 15, 2018 08:33

Groda: Mar 17, 2005; Hair Elf

Most of the Swedish words for marsupials for marsupials begin with a word meaning "pouch" and "scrotum."

Scrotum-rat
Scrotum-wolf
Scrotum-bastard
Sctotum-badger

# ? Jun 15, 2018 08:49

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

German Wolverines are the 'eats lots animal'

# ? Jun 15, 2018 09:32

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

C.M. Kruger posted:

IIRC the German word for a Turkey is "Dangerous Chicken" or something to that effect. But the one that's really stuck with me is that Guinea Pigs are called "Ocean Piglets."

That explains the way we call them in Lithuania, neat!

# ? Jun 15, 2018 10:08

Falukorv: Jun 23, 2013; A funny little mouse!

Tunicate posted:

German Wolverines are the 'eats lots animal'

Same as their scientific name (Gulo gulo = glutton).

Portuguese named turkeys (the bird) after another country: Peru

Falukorv fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Jun 15, 2018

# ? Jun 15, 2018 10:22

bloom: Feb 25, 2017; by sebmojo

Tunicate posted:

German Wolverines are the 'eats lots animal'

In Finnish it's "ahma" which is related to "ahmia" = "eat a lot".

# ? Jun 15, 2018 11:36

Rodrigo Diaz: Apr 16, 2007; Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

Gnoman posted:

There was also MacArthur's dealings with the ROC "government in exile" on Taiwan. From my understanding, MacArthur met with ROC leadership around the time of Inchon, claiming later that this was a "THOU SHALT NOT USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE FOR AN INVASION" visit from His divine self. The PRC leadership, however, believed that the opposite was true and he was planning to take his armies into China at the ROC's behalf.

That doesn't sound plausible given that he very openly wanted to enter into total war with China and have Chiang invade from the sea. He also wanted to blockade their entire coast, which is definitely something that can happen and would go well.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 11:59

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016

Is battle of the frontiers the start of wwi between France and Germany, but without the swing through Belgium? Do you have any recommendations for books in french on it?

# ? Jun 15, 2018 12:16

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

What is it with the Battle of the Frontiers interest?

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:00

frankenfreak: Feb 16, 2007; I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

Tunicate posted:

German Wolverines are the 'eats lots ~~animal~~'

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:02

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

Is the Guns of August now not the best overview of that whole thing?

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:05

Neophyte: Apr 23, 2006; perennially; Taco Defender

Cyrano4747 posted:

If we're doing animal names my favorite German one is the shield-frog

turtle

him name is hoplite shield-frog

p.s. I'll find my helots
who took my helots

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:10

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

bewbies posted:

Is the Guns of August now not the best overview of that whole thing?

It never was.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:45

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

ilmucche posted:

Is battle of the frontiers the start of wwi between France and Germany, but without the swing through Belgium?

It's often rendered "Battles" to get over how big it was and that it included more than one discrete engagement. The exact definition depends on who's talking. Mr Wikipedia uses the largest possible one, including the battles of Mulhouse (Alsace, 7-10 August), Halen (Belgium, 12 August), Lorraine (Lorraine, 14-25 August), the Ardennes (a big loving forest, 21-23 August), Charleroi (Belgium, 21-23 August), and Mons (Belgium, 23 August). However, what with the hyper-focus on Mons and related semi-focus on Haelen and Charleroi as related actions, lots of people who write in English now exclude them to make clear that they're talking about the fighting south of Luxembourg, where most of the armies actually were and which English histories often overlook.

quote:

Do you have any recommendations for books in french on it?

If you're a fluent speaker, get thee stuck into the French Official History, which is available in its entirety for free on the internet and which will happily drone on for years in bollock-numbing detail about generals and dates and places and plans.

For something slightly less old-fashioned, fifteen minutes with Mr Google turns up one book by an actual historian (Sophie Delaporte's "Samedi 22 aout 1914: Un m�decin dans la bataille", focusing on the personal account of a doctor who was there, she specialises in medicine at war) and two more general efforts by enthusiastic amateurs (one banker and one journalist); can't recommend any of them because my French isn't good enough, desole.

bewbies posted:

Is the Guns of August now not the best overview of that whole thing?

It's 56 years old and the author has more Strongly Held Opinions than hot dinners, without much in the way of primary sources to back them up. Strongly Held Opinions invite research and rebuttal, especially when they win Pulitzers; the field has moved on since then. Aside from anything else, in this day and age she'd never get away with "I'm going to write a general work about everything in August 1914", and then turning round the next minute to say "oh, except the Serbs, I think they're boring so I can't be hosed with them", which if I'd been reading a paper copy of the book instead of on my phone would have made me just throw the thing in a bin and move on. It's a great story, but it's not necessarily good history.

edit: here's an easy example of the sort of problems at play: in chapter 3 she gives the classic story of red trousers and minister of war Etienne intemperately yelling "red trousers are France!" to show how blinkered and doomed to fail they all were. What doesn't fit her story is that by 1913 the Army had finally bowed to the need to change and developed plans for a patriotic red/white/blue cloth which gave a muddy purple colour, which were then delayed another year by some rotter pointing out that all the red was made in Germany; by June 1914 everyone had agreed to go ahead with the white/blue replacement, and then rollout got delayed by more pressing concerns. If the war had taken another six months to start, the French would all have gone into battle wearing horizon blue.

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jun 15, 2018

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:46

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Trin beat me dammit. It was huge, gruesome and the two biggest armies of western Europe were pretty much knocking shades of poo poo out of each other and discovering modern weapons really suck against older formations, tactics and thinking.

# ? Jun 15, 2018 13:47