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Shooting Blanks posted:This just popped up for me on Steam at $15 (40% off) - it seems like an interesting enough game, but is there enough replayability to make it worth it? I've watched a couple videos and it seemed interesting enough, just can't think of anything to compare it to really. It's Dwarf Fortress. In Space.
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Jun 14, 2018 19:42
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Shooting Blanks posted:This just popped up for me on Steam at $15 (40% off) - it seems like an interesting enough game, but is there enough replayability to make it worth it? I've watched a couple videos and it seemed interesting enough, just can't think of anything to compare it to really. I'm at 745 hours  . And I'm sure there are plenty of people who have more hours. Depends on how you play it of course, but I like to start new colonies after awhile. It's a side scrolling base builder in the way of Rimworld and a little Factorio. I like it better than both of those; I don't care that much for the drama in Rimworld and the dryness of Factorio gets to me after awhile.
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Jun 14, 2018 19:45
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They still have difficulty providing you with real end-game goals. Especially when you limit yourself on the number of dupes which heavily reduces the bleed from heat/oxygen/food that would normally spur you on. This is only a problem if you're like me and struggle to get motivated after reaching an equilibrium point.
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Jun 14, 2018 19:48
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It's very early access still. Which is good news and bad news since if you get bored with the current state there's a substantial addition every few months that range from major balance changes to whole new aspects of the game.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:27
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Shooting Blanks posted:This just popped up for me on Steam at $15 (40% off) - it seems like an interesting enough game, but is there enough replayability to make it worth it? I've watched a couple videos and it seemed interesting enough, just can't think of anything to compare it to really. There are two major resources, water and power, determined by the map. Geysers will give those resources but they are randomly placed in the world. So each map has its own challenges to finding and harnessing those resources. So, the replayability is dealing with each map's layout.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:38
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I wish I could relearn this game from the beginning sometimes. In the early stages of the game I get into the same routine every time now, which leaves me with plenty of momentum to get to cycles 30-40, but I feel like as soon as I try to breach into the other biomes things are gonna go south, I haven't taken much time to see where any of the new buildings fit within all the stuff I've already build, so buildings for things like plastics and refined metals end up way out of place and with me having to rebuild most of my power generation. I also have no idea how to handle cooling and while it hasn't really been a problem, by cycle 40 or so I can already see that the general temperature in my base has risen by about 10 or 15 degrees so it doesn't look like it'll be easy to keep going. I dunno, maybe I just need to play more, but there is a pretty big time investment in getting a colony up and running to get to the new content and by the time I get to it I usually end up alt-F4'ing to go do something else. I think maybe I just need to not be afraid to tear everything down and rebuild sections within the same map, as opposed to starting fresh like I usually end up doing.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:42
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Heat has to be managed from the beginning. Building heavy machines outside of the living quarters helps. My base only has beds, farms, critters, and a kitchen. Things like electrolyzers, refinement, generators (past manual ones), batteries, etc are built outside of my base. Piping cold water inside your base helps a lot. Venting cold O2 helps even more. Getting air and water to be cold is a challenge though.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:48
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Shooting Blanks posted:This just popped up for me on Steam at $15 (40% off) - it seems like an interesting enough game, but is there enough replayability to make it worth it? I've watched a couple videos and it seemed interesting enough, just can't think of anything to compare it to really. One of the best features is the idea that a Dupe can be reprinted again if a particular one dies. Sure, THAT dupe is dead, and the new one one will be crawling over the old ones corpse for days because no one wants to loving finish building the goddamn tasteful memorials, but their legacy will live on! This actually is pretty cool! I can lose a valuable dupe and it doesn’t feel as bad as losing, say, an utterly unique and legendary dwarven weaponsmith. Another Stinky or Ruby is only a short wait and a printer recharge away! As far as the rest of the game, you will have fun, particularly when some small element you overlooked 80 cycles ago comes back to bite you in the rear end, and suddenly your base full of merry assholes are gasping between a layer of hydrogen and chlorine, while pissing themselves because no one got around to unplugging the toilets. And starving to death. Or accidentally entombing themselves in falling sand or constructed titles. Of forgetting water sieves don’t screen out food poisoning germs, and everyone is suddenly sick(er) because there’s piss water in their mud pies (before running of food and starving to death, this time on a med-bed). Or watching as all your crops fail because all of your equipment is making things too drat hot, and you guessed it, everyone starves to death. If you can get all the above problems dealt with as soon as they pop up, you have a choice of digging down into oil and lava, or up into space and meteors. If you get that far, you will have a base that is properly powered and automated, and tastefully decorated too! Everything will still be covered in piss water and corpses, tho
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Jun 14, 2018 20:51
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Breaching into other biomes really isn't nearly as big a deal as the game leads you to think. Duplicants are actually pretty sturdy; they don't mind working in hostile biomes as long as they can run back to breathable atmosphere for a quick break every so often.
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Jun 14, 2018 20:55
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God forbid one of them runs out of calories though. EAT A HATCH! ITS WHAT THEY WOULD DO TO YOU
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Jun 14, 2018 21:21
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Having a dupe spend several cycles working in an environment without breathable air or otherwise very uncomfortable *will* start to make their stress skyrocket tho. That said, exosuits are the best, and you can actually get them much earlier than I assumed. I think they changed the requirements a bit since the first reveal stream?
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Jun 14, 2018 21:26
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Exosuits are a bit of a pain in the rear end, though - you have to run both power and oxygen out to the exosuit station, and it takes a fair amount of micromanagement or automation to get the dupes to use them effectively. They're prone to putting on the exosuit, mining one tile, then immediately returning to base - taking a different route back so that they don't pass the exosuit checkpoint and therefore don't take off the suit. You have to either carefully restrict entry/exit to the exosuit zone, or manually manage your exosuit-wearers. That said, exosuits are very good for extended expeditions and large-scale jobs. A dupe wearing an exosuit can work continuously in hostile conditions all cycle long, as long as they're locked in the work area so they can't path to any other jobs.
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Jun 14, 2018 21:42
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I haven't played in a few patches but from what I recall exosuits are also great for stress, since they eliminate all the little short-term stressors from getting wet, too hot, too cold, too suffocating etc that normally build up. They're a benefit even in totally safe biomes.
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Jun 14, 2018 22:30
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temple posted:im burnt all the way out with the game. it will be a year this summer. primarily cooling water is just a headache and i've done everything from automation to glitches. its a hard cap on my base. i can live without perfectly cooled water but urgh i can't figure out why its so difficult. Yeah, heat is super annoying, primarily heated water since after a point it makes your bristle blossoms too hot and stops their growth. Real pain in the rear end to deal with, especially if you don't pay attention as your water pool slowly heats up from various processes. The most tricky thing is that heat builds up slowly, and is also very slow to get rid of, so if you ever find your base overheated to the point where symptoms start to really affect you (e.g. your plans start dying) things will be difficult to reverse. If you don't have enough buffer (e.g. lots of food stored) then that will most likely be the end of that game. temple posted:Heat has to be managed from the beginning. Building heavy machines outside of the living quarters helps. My base only has beds, farms, critters, and a kitchen. Things like electrolyzers, refinement, generators (past manual ones), batteries, etc are built outside of my base. The problem with having your power generation outside your base is that it then takes a shitload of refined metal to build the conducive wiring from the batteries to the buildings in your actual base. For that reason alone I build my power rooms in the starting biome (usually to the lower right or left, depending on map layout), and use insulated tiles to keep the heat in.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:05
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Main Paineframe posted:Exosuits are a bit of a pain in the rear end, though - you have to run both power and oxygen out to the exosuit station, and it takes a fair amount of micromanagement or automation to get the dupes to use them effectively. They're prone to putting on the exosuit, mining one tile, then immediately returning to base - taking a different route back so that they don't pass the exosuit checkpoint and therefore don't take off the suit. You have to either carefully restrict entry/exit to the exosuit zone, or manually manage your exosuit-wearers. I'd like them to add an improved exosuit that drastically reduces need for sleep and food. Often times what happens is the dupe walks over to the exosuit station, puts the thing on, then walks out to the hazard zone, only to decide that he needs to eat and walk all the way back to the base. It's a huge waste of time, especially if you have only one exosuit station designated to that hazard zone.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:08
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Main Paineframe posted:Exosuits are a bit of a pain in the rear end, though - you have to run both power and oxygen out to the exosuit station, and it takes a fair amount of micromanagement or automation to get the dupes to use them effectively. They're prone to putting on the exosuit, mining one tile, then immediately returning to base - taking a different route back so that they don't pass the exosuit checkpoint and therefore don't take off the suit. You have to either carefully restrict entry/exit to the exosuit zone, or manually manage your exosuit-wearers. Yeah although with today's cosmic upgrade I don't see how your dupes can stay on the surface without them. Yeah they need to improve the AI of the dupes. I saw where they may increase the system requirements before the game goes to 1.0. This could mean that they would add multi threads (apparently the game is actually 32 bit) which would then certainly allow for improved dupe behavior.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:46
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Lorini posted:Yeah although with today's cosmic upgrade I don't see how your dupes can stay on the surface without them. Just because a game is 32bit doesn't mean it doesn't have multi threads. And I'm pretty sure ONI does.. I did a little experiment with my 80 cycle 9 dupe base the other day, checked the processor usage and it was at 18%. Restricted it to 1 core and it dropped to 10%. I don't know if that's indicative of anything but it seems like it's using multiple. Also, Process Explorer said it had 9+ threads.
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Jun 15, 2018 02:00
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Ambaire posted:Just because a game is 32bit doesn't mean it doesn't have multi threads. And I'm pretty sure ONI does.. I did a little experiment with my 80 cycle 9 dupe base the other day, checked the processor usage and it was at 18%. Restricted it to 1 core and it dropped to 10%. I don't know if that's indicative of anything but it seems like it's using multiple. Also, Process Explorer said it had 9+ threads. OK, I thought a game needed to be 64bit to run multi-threaded, apologies.
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Jun 15, 2018 02:27
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Ambaire posted:Just because a game is 32bit doesn't mean it doesn't have multi threads. And I'm pretty sure ONI does.. I did a little experiment with my 80 cycle 9 dupe base the other day, checked the processor usage and it was at 18%. Restricted it to 1 core and it dropped to 10%. I don't know if that's indicative of anything but it seems like it's using multiple. Also, Process Explorer said it had 9+ threads. still dont think it really makes use of multicore tho, I run it on a 1950x and its very sad to see it smash 1 core at 80-90% while the other 15 sit basically idle
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Jun 15, 2018 03:02
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Multithreading is a hard thing to do well; it has a way of introducing bugs that are very hard to diagnose since you can no longer 100% rely on the order things execute in. Most likely they have the main gameplay logic all running on one core and they maybe have the interface on another, since that's a fairly common way to keep the UI smooth even if the game itself starts to chug.
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Jun 15, 2018 03:07
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If you're going to multithread, the temperature and fluid calculations are about as straightforward as it gets. On the other hand those can be handled using OpenCL even faster on the GPU since everything can just be reduced to operations on a really big matrix.
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Jun 15, 2018 03:29
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Seems like they could spin off creature pathing to different cores. Dupes 1 thru 4 on one, 5 thru 8 on another, half of the animals on another, etc. Or do fluid/etc sim based on areas. idk how this works tho
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Jun 15, 2018 03:30
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Multithreading is a hard thing to do well; it has a way of introducing bugs that are very hard to diagnose since you can no longer 100% rely on the order things execute in. Most likely they have the main gameplay logic all running on one core and they maybe have the interface on another, since that's a fairly common way to keep the UI smooth even if the game itself starts to chug. Turning on some of the overlays (such as temperature) later in the game definitely slows the game down, so I don't think the UI runs on a different core.
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Jun 15, 2018 03:35
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I just my colony death spiral out of control because I ran out of algae to feed my oxygen generators, but I got further than I’ve ever gotten before with up 18 duplicatants; so progress was made I say. My biggest struggle this whole time was dealing with power, I would never have enough of it, until I realized I’ve been messing this whole time and kind I figured this one little thing first. Never connect your power generating devices directly into a grid; only connect it to a battery and the battery into the grid.
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Jun 15, 2018 03:41
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Getting as many duplicants as possible isn't the goal of the game btw, and neither is it a good thing.
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Jun 15, 2018 03:44
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on the other hand 20 dups is great for getting poo poo done
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Jun 15, 2018 03:53
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Scarecow posted:on the other hand 20 dups is great for getting poo poo done Totally, but obviously you should only print a new dupe if you'll be able to support it. It's like having a kid!
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Jun 15, 2018 04:07
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Back Hack posted:I just my colony death spiral out of control because I ran out of algae to feed my oxygen generators, but I got further than I’ve ever gotten before with up 18 duplicatants; so progress was made I say. My biggest struggle this whole time was dealing with power, I would never have enough of it, until I realized I’ve been messing this whole time and kind I figured this one little thing first. One day I'll even figure out what use transformers are for, I've given up understanding them and just use smart batteries and power generators.
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Jun 15, 2018 05:37
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Lorini posted:One day I'll even figure out what use transformers are for, I've given up understanding them and just use smart batteries and power generators. So transformers drop the power input from one side down to a max of 1kw on the other side This is important as you build your power station in a cold biome and run heavy wire back to your base along the side and feed that into the transformer. Thst stops your wire being cooked and breaking as your no longer trying to shove 1k+ through it
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Jun 15, 2018 05:45
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stick heavy watt wire into the top of the transformer and regular wire in the bottom part. it creates individual circuits from heavy watt wire.
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Jun 15, 2018 05:45
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enraged_camel posted:I'd like them to add an improved exosuit that drastically reduces need for sleep and food. Often times what happens is the dupe walks over to the exosuit station, puts the thing on, then walks out to the hazard zone, only to decide that he needs to eat and walk all the way back to the base. It's a huge waste of time, especially if you have only one exosuit station designated to that hazard zone. It helps if you use locked doors to prevent them from pathing back to your base - with no way to get to any of their "fulfill needs" jobs, they'll ignore their needs (except for sleep) and keep working until you let them out. I ended up using automation to build an entrance to my exosuit work areas that automatically locks them in and doesn't let them leave till the end of the cycle. Could probably stash a bed and a bit of food at the entrance and let the dupes work till their air runs out, even. Lorini posted:One day I'll even figure out what use transformers are for, I've given up understanding them and just use smart batteries and power generators. You know how regular wires break if you put more than 1kw through them? If you connect heavy wire to one end and regular wire to the other end, the transformer will take only 1kw of electricity from the heavy wire and transfer it to the regular wire. That way, you don't have to use heavy wire for literally everything once your base's total power draw rises above 1kw - instead, you can just divide it up into a bunch of separate <1kw circuits.
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Jun 15, 2018 06:42
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You can also use two transformers in parallel to run a single low resistance circuit. Also worth noting, you can use automation circuits to turn transformers on or off to reduce the power usage of certain circuits.
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Jun 15, 2018 07:21
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Back Hack posted:I just my colony death spiral out of control because I ran out of algae to feed my oxygen generators, but I got further than I’ve ever gotten before with up 18 duplicatants; so progress was made I say. (I realize it failed because I should have moved on from planting mealwood).
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Jun 15, 2018 07:53
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32 vs 64-bit is a memory allocation thing. Basically it means you can access more ram at a time, which usually translates to more game context and state calculations that can be cached at once. it could possibly (but probably not) mean better AI decision making, but more likely would just support more complicated mechanics or better performance with large bases or stuff like that.
ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 09:51
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Glory to Italia!
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Does anyone else get infrequent crashes while running on a MacBook? I think I’m running out of video memory and it seems to be exacerbated by revealing the map with debug mode. E: unrevealing the map doesn’t seem to help, in fact after you reveal the map it seems that everything that was revealed is activated/loaded and start simulating even if they are covered by FOW again. PiCroft fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 12:45
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PiCroft posted:Does anyone else get infrequent crashes while running on a MacBook? I think I’m running out of video memory and it seems to be exacerbated by revealing the map with debug mode. I was getting a lot of CTDs and I think it had somethign to do with something being funky about items moving in pipes/vents. Eithre that or the map seed was cursed.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:03
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1337JiveTurkey posted:You can also use two transformers in parallel to run a single low resistance circuit. Why would you do this? I’m intrigued.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:20
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There are certain machines that require more than 1kW of power. And there's a type of wire that uses refined metal that can support up to 2kW so it becomes a building pattern of its own.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:30
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Exactly what Sage Grimm said. Transformers are a 1 way bridge that takes 1kW from the high connection and outputs 1kW on the low connection. The low resistance wires that appear later can take 2kW before getting damaged. So to actually use those wires to their potential you need two transformers connecting to the same wire to move 2kW. Generally the high connections will connect to the same heaviwatt wire and all the generators will connect to the heaviwatt wire. This can all be hidden away since it's murder on the environment score for the local area. Then you just set up circuits for different sectors of your base with the transformers isolating each circuit. You can use separate plain wires to each transformer instead of pairing them up and it works perfectly fine if you're not running a Thermal Aquatuner. The benefit of using the low resistance wires is that you don't have to spend as much time balancing the load across all the circuits.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:53
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Well Akchtchually, the transformers support 4kw on their outputs. you can go from one straight to conductive wire.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:02
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