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Maybe if you quit drinking for a couple days you could actually read.rudatron posted:sorry not sorry loogs You're right, they're not equivalent because a demand is an order, and orders are only commonly expressed as purchases. That's why the expression of demand under socialism is different from the expression of demand under capitalist markets, but it's still an order. The basic understanding of demand is wrong, because it's intentionally conflated with desire - but demand and desire aren't the same thing.
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Jun 16, 2018 06:24
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| # ? May 25, 2024 21:19 |
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https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1007649794528071681
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Jun 16, 2018 06:45
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https://twitter.com/ellonkmusk/status/1007860870494543872
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Jun 16, 2018 07:01
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No, a purchase is an order. You are paying for something, and getting a product, thus realizing your demand. Capitalist exchange has taken place. Under socialism, an order would simply be an instruction, to produce, and thereby realize demand. It's exactly the same thing, under either capitalism or socialism.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:13
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are yall ok
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Jun 16, 2018 07:17
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one of the cool things about analytic philosophy is when they make the distinction between two different senses of a word, using subscripts. 'demand(subscript1)' = blahblahblah 'demand(subscript2)' = blahblahblah
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Jun 16, 2018 07:24
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all this econ stuff is poor praxis compared to yelling da zdrastvotje miravaya revolytsiya and shooting into the ceiling
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Jun 16, 2018 07:25
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wouldn't just in time manufacturing allow for a planned economy where you never overproduce paperclips but also don't run into a situation where the region/country/world doesn't run out of paperclips halfway through the planning period due to an unforeseen circumstance since digitalization of the process allows for real time adjustment of production targets
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Jun 16, 2018 07:25
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rudatron posted:No, a purchase is an order. You are paying for something, and getting a product, thus realizing your demand. Capitalist exchange has taken place. Under socialism, an order would simply be an instruction, to produce, and thereby realize demand. It's exactly the same thing, under either capitalism or socialism. I demand that you stop making dumb arguments. gradenko_2000 posted:wouldn't just in time manufacturing allow for a planned economy where you never overproduce paperclips but also don't run into a situation where the region/country/world doesn't run out of paperclips halfway through the planning period due to an unforeseen circumstance since digitalization of the process allows for real time adjustment of production targets Yep.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:wouldn't just in time manufacturing allow for a planned economy where you never overproduce paperclips but also don't run into a situation where the region/country/world doesn't run out of paperclips halfway through the planning period due to an unforeseen circumstance since digitalization of the process allows for real time adjustment of production targets the fact that people actually attempted this in 1917 for the social good is still mind-boggling to me, but yeah we could def pull it off now
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Jun 16, 2018 07:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I demand that you stop making dumb arguments. I told you, I'm sticking on this until you relent. You need to learn the lesson, that you can't always dig you way out of a hole, that you put yourself into, by throwing up obfuscating garbage. So long as you keep playing semantic games, you haven't learnt anything.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:32
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rudatron posted:A demand that will never be realized, so long as you keep playing this game. How dare you defy my order?
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Jun 16, 2018 07:32
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I need to speak with your manager.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:33
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You're not just using the colloqiual definition of 'order', as opposed to 'order' in the consumer sense, where you 'order' something, by paying for it.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:33
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how many pages back do i need to start reading to make sense of this
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Jun 16, 2018 07:35
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Over the past couple of pages, you tried obfuscating using a) 'will' (and internal disposition) and 'will into existence' (an idiot for an act of creation) b) 'Price Elasticity' and 'Price' and now c) 'Order' and 'Purchase'. All to save face, because simply saying 'okay, I misspoke' or whatever, is simply too much.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:37
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Are you saying that you're being intentionally annoying because you don't like the way I used a word?
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Jun 16, 2018 07:39
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this semantic argument about demand is tedious and dumb as hell rudatron makes good posts much of the time, but this is not one of those times, and both parties should have had the good sense to disengage by now
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Jun 16, 2018 07:41
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Wheeee posted:both parties should have had the good sense to disengage by now buddy have i got news for you
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Jun 16, 2018 07:42
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Are you saying that you're being intentionally annoying because you don't like the way I used a word?
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Jun 16, 2018 07:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:wouldn't just in time manufacturing allow for a planned economy where you never overproduce paperclips but also don't run into a situation where the region/country/world doesn't run out of paperclips halfway through the planning period due to an unforeseen circumstance since digitalization of the process allows for real time adjustment of production targets depends on how planning is organized, how knowledge flows through the system, and whether any given planner should believe (purported) 'knowledge' flowing to them and vice versa for the workers
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Jun 16, 2018 07:47
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would requesting a sixer on this conversation constitute a Demand, an Order, or require a Purchase?
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Jun 16, 2018 07:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Are you saying that you're being intentionally annoying because you don't like the way I used a word? you're both loving stupid because you don't realize that there's more than one (semantic) sense that can be attached to the exact same string of characters
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Jun 16, 2018 07:49
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[pener, with a fishing rod]: eeyyyyy, i'm goin' down to the BANK [rudatron]: well you owe me money, so i expect you'll be payin me back tonight when i sees ya [pener]: nah, i'm going to THE BANK. by the river, to catch some fish [rudatron]: THE BANK's where money comes frmo, you loving MORON [pener]: hold on, while i type a hundred words or so
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Jun 16, 2018 07:52
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these last couple pages remind me why i just read books and don't bother talking to anyone lol
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Jun 16, 2018 07:53
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Finicums Wake posted:[pener, with a fishing rod]: eeyyyyy, i'm goin' down to the BANK lol
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Jun 16, 2018 08:01
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Finicums Wake posted:these last couple pages remind me why i just read books and don't bother talking to anyone lol A thread is a book that constantly updates 
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Jun 16, 2018 08:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:wouldn't just in time manufacturing allow for a planned economy where you never overproduce paperclips but also don't run into a situation where the region/country/world doesn't run out of paperclips halfway through the planning period due to an unforeseen circumstance since digitalization of the process allows for real time adjustment of production targets Capitalism is also subject to the same forces & laws though, it cannot magically evade them. But it's often possible to get 'good enough'. They're always some waste, but it can always be manageable.
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Jun 16, 2018 08:22
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rudatron posted:Yes and no. It's got to do with something called Control Theory. Whether you're able to control the output of some function by using another function. The insight there is that instantaneous control is impossible, and attempting to achieve it can actually introduce overshoot, or worse, instability into the system. It's made worse by the process of production having a lot of time delays inside it - setting up, retooling, etc, all takes time, and all introduces a delay. in factorio i just put a chest down
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Jun 16, 2018 08:24
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 control can't be a theory. you need a gamepad to make inputsthe distance between a wireless controller and the console is boundless
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Jun 16, 2018 08:27
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One of the myths of capitalism is that everything is spontaneous. It's not. When the USSR tried to keep up with Western fashion trends, they ran into problems of simply having to keep up with changes in production, in response to direct input & polling from consumers. They found out what consumers want, and then tried to shift production that way. This lead to continuous shifts in production, which when delivered to market, were always late, and out of style. But that's not how capitalism works - modern fashion is basically driven by large companies, they're able to side-step issues like delays in manufacturing, because they put themselves on the 'leading edge' of what is fashionable, through pure brand power alone. They drive consumption, through sublimation. Point in case: did any one of apple's customers ask for the 'notch'? Or getting rid of headphone jacks? Nope, of course not - the company did that unilaterally, and was able to simply declare them as fashionable. The design was probably months in the making, but they sidestepped the time delay of trying to deliver what people want, by simply telling them want they want.
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Jun 16, 2018 08:28
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rudatron posted:Point in case: did any one of apple's customers ask for the 'notch'? Or getting rid of headphone jacks? Nope, of course not - the company did that unilaterally, and was able to simply declare them as fashionable. The design was probably months in the making, but they sidestepped the time delay of trying to deliver what people want, by simply telling them want they want. this seems like a bad example because afaik no one likes that poo poo or wants it
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Jun 16, 2018 08:36
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while killing some time in a store the other day I noticed that a bunch of manufacturers of android phones are now aping the iphone x's notch, and the notch has now become part of the iphone silhouette in apple marketing, replacing the old silhouette of an iphone with the circular home button when they first announced the iphone x i was unsure whether the notch would stick around beyond the first generation, but it appears that it will for the foreseeable future
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Jun 16, 2018 08:44
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:this seems like a bad example because afaik no one likes that poo poo or wants it Liking or wanting the thing doesn't make any difference, because to the consumer an iphone is an inelastic product. There are other smart phones on the market they could substitute for an iphone, but they want the iphone because Apple phones are the best ones. The brand itself has a perceived value in excess of the product's actual use value, even after the product has become objectively worse.
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Jun 16, 2018 09:03
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unless you're doing some really esoteric poo poo iphones really are straight up better than android phones, especially when you consider apple's history on privacy and security versus that of google i still use an android phone but really, unless youre going to be flashing a custom install of android for whatever reason, iphones are the best
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Jun 16, 2018 09:14
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Baloogan posted:*literally dies* 
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Jun 16, 2018 09:15
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holy poo poo lmao
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Jun 16, 2018 09:20
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oh my lol
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Jun 16, 2018 09:20
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how did that idiot become a forum mascot anyhow, he has never posted anything particularly entertaining and he sure as poo poo has never posted anything insightful
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Jun 16, 2018 09:22
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still not as good as the this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fGe7cT2x08
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Jun 16, 2018 09:23
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