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So many loving chuds. Although one of my military friends went the opposite chud direction and is now a legit full on communist.
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Jun 18, 2018 03:51
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DoktorLoken posted:So many loving chuds. Although one of my military friends went the opposite chud direction and is now a legit full on communist. Greetings,
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Jun 18, 2018 03:56
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LingcodKilla posted:When did seeking asylum become a crime? mlmp08 posted:A popular right wing talking point is that all but a tiny fraction of asylum seekers are just saying the right words to help get asylum, but actually they're migrating for either economic or criminal reasons. Some of these cases are people throwing a Hail Mary after other attempts to normalize their status have failed, or when facing imminent deportation, but it's impossible to say what percentage of rejections are "justified" or "unjustified" because every case is different and people on both sides have strong incentives to defend their actions. WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:Our country is going to have to take the same tack that Germany did towards nazis when all this is over. Hot Karl Marx posted:did you buy your AV or was it given? cause its pretty funny  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 18, 2018 05:27
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So do you think seperating kids from their parents is a bad thing or no? I can't really get a handle on what you're arguing here. Sure, it's the law (or so you say, I'm not going to bother checking up on it), but since there's pretty much universal outrage from everyone non-chuddy, it should be pretty clear that it's not a good thing.
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Jun 18, 2018 06:19
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Slavic Crime Yacht posted:So do you think seperating kids from their parents is a bad thing or no? I can't really get a handle on what you're arguing here. Sure, it's the law (or so you say, I'm not going to bother checking up on it), but since there's pretty much universal outrage from everyone non-chuddy, it should be pretty clear that it's not a good thing. He's laying out the details and not making an argument I think. The last two presidents prosecuted it under a misdemeanor so it wasn't a big deal but Sessions and the Trump White House have decided it's a felony and this is the result. Please correct if this is wrong cause the details are tricky. So I guess they could very technically be correct with an extreme interpretation of the law but there's no way to see this as anything but monstrous no matter what the law says.
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Jun 18, 2018 06:33
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It's weird because it's laid out like a rebuttal but he's literally just rambling
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Jun 18, 2018 06:40
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Well he is providing the justification used by Sessions. So, again, technically it is a crime and why the rebuttal is always "I'm fine with someone who goes through the LEGAL process like a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN" etc etc. It's a fairly informative post I think with nothing really wrong. I didn't realize the central American rejections were so high but I guess that makes sense now. I didn't think about that. lightpole fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 06:46
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When my ancestors came to America, we had to go through the rigorous citizenship process of "be white, recite oath".
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Jun 18, 2018 07:06
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Senator Patrick Leahy asked (DHS) Secretary Nielsen whether Norway was a predominantly white country. Kirstjen Nielsen appeared to hesitate before answering, "I actually do not know that, sir." She added, "But I imagine that is the case."
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Jun 18, 2018 07:06
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Sergg posted:Senator Patrick Leahy asked (DHS) Secretary Nielsen whether Norway was a predominantly white country. Kirstjen Nielsen appeared to hesitate before answering, "I actually do not know that, sir." She added, "But I imagine that is the case." They do border fake Mongolia (Finland), so it's a valid question!
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Jun 18, 2018 07:44
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Chuds legit believe Scandinavia is now part of the caliphate due to waves of Musselmen tho I’m not sure if that was what she was pulling from or not.
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Jun 18, 2018 07:59
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Slavic Crime Yacht posted:So do you think seperating kids from their parents is a bad thing or no? I can't really get a handle on what you're arguing here. Sure, it's the law (or so you say, I'm not going to bother checking up on it), but since there's pretty much universal outrage from everyone non-chuddy, it should be pretty clear that it's not a good thing. I wasn't really arguing for anything, just explaining. I think it's a tough subject to have a reasonable conversation about because people on both sides deliberately cloud the issue. I understand why LingcodKilla was confused, because there are a ton of articles with headlines like, "Asylum seekers fleeing South American gangs have their children taken away at the border" that deliberately muddy the cause and effect, immigration court and immigration detention vs criminal court and criminal detention, and the underlying laws about refugee status. There are also a bunch of tweets flying around with kids in cages and a bus at a detention center full of child car seats that don't acknowledge that those photos were taken during Obama's term, or the context surrounding them. On the other side, you have Trump saying, "well, it's the law", which is technically correct, but something it is within his power to set priorities for and also when the gently caress did he start caring about what the law is? ICE and CBP are always going to look like the bad guys, because their most visible enforcement actions are pursuing people who are poor, powerless, and likely a member of an ethnic minority, for what are essentially paper crimes. But we need some sort of border control, and some sort of immigration policy, and someone to enforce those rules, whatever we as a country decide those rules should be. The first step in figuring that out is having a common understanding. You can say, "hey, we shouldn't be arresting people for entering the country illegally, because then they're separated from their kids", but at least engage with what alternative you would prefer. Should it not be illegal, merely an administrative matter, to deliberately evade border control when entering the country? Not illegal so long as you have your kids with you? Let people bring their kids to federal detention with them? If you're going to punt and say we should selectively enforce the law, who gets to make that call? What guidelines do they use in making that decision? How do we decide who gets to stay in America? How do we deal with the fact that there are far more people who live in countries with weak rule of law, scarcity, and pervasive violence against women, who would like to emigrate to America, than most Americans would be comfortable letting immigrate? How do we deal with the fact that we have allowed our agricultural sector (among others) to become dependant on a hidden underclass of illegal immigrants? Big Dogs doesn't make a "Outrage isn't a feeling, it's a value judgment masquerading as a feeling, and is meaningless without a logical alternative" t-shirt, so have this instead: 
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Jun 18, 2018 08:22
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lightpole posted:The last two presidents prosecuted it under a misdemeanor so it wasn't a big deal but Sessions and the Trump White House have decided it's a felony and this is the result. Please correct if this is wrong cause the details are tricky. 
Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 08:24
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Carry on then. I couldn't tell if you were defending or just explaining. Good dogs.
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Jun 18, 2018 08:36
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Best Friends posted:Chuds legit believe Scandinavia is now part of the caliphate due to waves of Musselmen tho I’m not sure if that was what she was pulling from or not. I'm reading this really long bio about her https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-dhs-secretary-kirstjen-nielsen-became-one-of-president-trumps-fiercest-loyalists Basically she was one of the Bush admin officials responsible for disaster relief who resigned in disgrace following Hurricane Katrina. She leveraged her political connections to work in the private sector as a "cybersecurity consultant" after the Bush years. The hilarious part about that? From her Wikipedia page: "At a May 2018 congressional hearing, Nielsen said that she was unaware of the intelligence community's conclusion that Russia sought to interfere in the 2016 presidential election to help candidate Trump get elected.[29]" After Trump's election she was John Kelly's personal aide and she was willing to do whatever she was told and had no history of strong political opinions, working in gov't during Obama, or opposition to Trump. She was angling for a much smaller job as an undersecretary in a sub-agency but with tons of personal access & face time with John Kelly and Trump, she somehow managed to finagle her way into a cabinet position. By all accounts of everyone interviewed, she's incompetent, lacks basic knowledge, and does whatever Trump and Stephen Miller tell her to, including issuing press releases attacking immigration bills in Congress. I spent 20 minutes reading her Twitter feed just now and it's basically nothing but "Had the great honor of discussing #thing with #person and #group." and a photo of her standing next to whatever person she had dinner with. That and retweeting Trump, Pence, or Fox News but mostly the namedrop/photo op Great Privilege To Meet.
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Jun 18, 2018 10:42
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She sounds like a good lackey
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Jun 18, 2018 10:52
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Dead Reckoning posted:The premise of the question doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, separating parents from their kids is bad, and we should favor keeping parents and children together. Unless they're lovely or dangerous parents, in which case we should separate them from their kids. But if someone was losing access to their kids because they were going away for multiple homicides, or perhaps for colluding with Russia to undermine an American election, no one would bat an eye. So saying "thing is bad" in the abstract is kinda meaningless. Never thought I'd see DR advocate for "full communism now", but here we are. Welcome friend.
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Jun 18, 2018 10:54
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No, he's still just being DR. He's advocating that we "Need" BP and ICE, despite the fact that most immigration law only became a thing in the 1960s when suddenly whites became distinctly aware that they were beginning to lose their grip on the country. There is no justification for what Sessions is doing, full stop. And arguing that there is law (there isn't law for separating families), does not make it just or correct. Lest we forget: Slavery was law. Jim Crow was law. Being law does not make it right. Also: Bonus, DR doesn't understand that Sessions is specifically gutting immigration courts to make it more difficult to get public defenders. And no, DR, even minor offenses are entitled to Public Defenders. Stop justifying loving Jefferey "KKK Smokes Pot, So I couldn't Join" Sessions. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 13:09
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It's also the administration talking out of both (several?) sides of their mouth with regard to who's to "blame" for kids being separated from their parents. Explanation 1: These parents did a crime, and now our hands are forced into putting kids into holding centers and then giving them back to someone who may or may not be related to the kids. Explanation 2: Democrats did it! They didn't want to build a wall, so now by jove, we have no choice but to put kids in holding centers where they may or may not be released to a relative. Explanation 3: We have very deliberately established a system where we publicly separate kids from their parents. This is to make immigrants too scared to immigrate here, including deterring people from trying to claim asylum, lest we decide their asylum claim isn't valid and then charge them with a crime. Their fear of losing their kids will keep them out of our country. So yes, we established a deliberate policy to separate kids from parents to scare people, but really the Democrats and these illegal immigrants made us do it. Explanation 4: MS-13 or something, I dunno. CommieGIR posted:There is no justification for what Sessions is doing, full stop. And arguing that there is law (there isn't law for separating families), does not make it just or correct. Truth. It turns out you can have rule of law and border security without doing so in an intentionally painful and monstrous way as a means to scare the poo poo out of people and try to force capitulation of your political rivals in the legislature! Who coulda node? mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 13:10
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CommieGIR posted:There is no justification for what Sessions is doing, full stop. And arguing that there is law (there isn't law for separating families), does not make it just or correct. Sounds like that's just a problem with your ethical framework 
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Jun 18, 2018 14:10
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1008692333771132929?s=19
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Jun 18, 2018 14:19
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I’m sorry I’m too busy following the multiple mass school shootings by US born assholes to track MS13 shootings.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:23
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There's no excuse or reason to split up parents from their children if they're being deported anyway except sheer vindictiveness and hatred.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:29
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Melania enters the child separation fray:quote:"Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform." Gosh, if only she knew somebody who could change the policy. Oh, well. Laura Bush has also weighed in quote:On Sunday, a day we as a nation set aside to honor fathers and the bonds of family, I was among the millions of Americans who watched images of children who have been torn from their parents. In the six weeks between April 19 and May 31, the Department of Homeland Security has sent nearly 2,000 children to mass detention centers or foster care. More than 100 of these children are younger than 4 years old. The reason for these separations is a zero-tolerance policy for their parents, who are accused of illegally crossing our borders.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:34
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Ah yes, the “stop hitting yourself” style of politicking. This horrible thing I’m doing will stop once you give me the horrible thing I want!
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Jun 18, 2018 14:34
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Fallom posted:Sounds like that's just a problem with your ethical framework Want to hear the most annoying sound in the world? Imagine having to talk to Stephen Miller or Jeff Sessions about anything.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:37
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 Germans. Thought of immigrants and died. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1008696508697513985
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Jun 18, 2018 14:47
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mlmp08 posted:
Oh, only the fourth or so factually wrong thing he said today, if he stays below ten, I think that counts as a good day
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Jun 18, 2018 14:50
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Fox and Friends Facts again?
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Jun 18, 2018 15:01
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mlmp08 posted:
Nobody tell him about the immigrants who showed up in North America after 1492; he'll flip his poo poo about how violent they were.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:18
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:There's no excuse or reason to split up parents from their children if they're being deported anyway except sheer vindictiveness and hatred. While we're at it, gently caress contrarian dipshits who Kramer into every conversation about this on Twitter and elsewhere with "YEAH BUT OBAMA AND BUSH ALSO PUT ILLEGALS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS INTO FACILITIES LIKE THIS, WHY DIDN'T YOU CARE THEN?" It's loving concern trolling at its finest. People did care then, maybe not on the same scale, but they did. It's also possible to recognize that those were lovely things that happened under previous administrations, but not nearly as lovely as separating families out of pure vindictiveness.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:27
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Handsome Ralph posted:While we're at it, gently caress contrarian dipshits who Kramer into every conversation about this on Twitter and elsewhere with "YEAH BUT OBAMA AND BUSH ALSO PUT ILLEGALS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS INTO FACILITIES LIKE THIS, WHY DIDN'T YOU CARE THEN?" It's loving concern trolling at its finest. And that's before we get to the fact that, shockingly, Liberals DO respect the law, but recognize the law must be measure by its morality and how just it truly is. No Liberal is saying "Just open the borders", they are saying "Yes, they broke the law, but going for a repeat of the Japanese Internment (one of our greatest national shames) is hardly going to make the law more in the right. But that's missing the forest for the trees: This is about Jeff Sessions, Steve Miller, and Trump's White Supremacist leanings. That's it.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:30
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Both Wisconsin and Maryland gerrmandering cases hit today. Maryland was where republicans sued because they felt they were subject to retaliatory gerrymandering. The posture of the case was the district court denied them a preliminary injunction that would invalidate the maps for the 2018 election because there was the supreme court case in Gill pending that would provide guidance on how to rule. SCOTUS via per curiam order said "that's a good and valid reason" and the case is punted back down to the district court. Wisconsin case was also punted on standing because the plaintiffs didn't actually live in gerrymandered districts. Kagan laid out in a concurring opinion how to demonstrate standing. Both cases unanimous and both punts.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:38
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Remember when people got pissy about punching nazis? Feels like decades ago and drat were those people wrong.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:47
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BadOptics posted:Remember when people got pissy about punching nazis? Feels like decades ago and drat were those people wrong. Hell yeah they were, also an excuse to repost this.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:50
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DHS Secretary is now claiming they don't have a policy of seperating family members at the border. So: Kelly, Trump, Miller, are all liars?  https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1008695502379077637 https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1008726798136377344
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Jun 18, 2018 16:07
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BadOptics posted:Never thought I'd see DR advocate for "full communism now", but here we are. Welcome friend. CommieGIR posted:No, he's still just being DR. He's advocating that we "Need" BP and ICE, despite the fact that most immigration law only became a thing in the 1960s when suddenly whites became distinctly aware that they were beginning to lose their grip on the country.  In such a hurry to be woke that you forgot history. Immigration law didn't start in 1960. The contentious Naturalization Act was signed into law by President John Adams in 1798. Tensions about immigration are as old as this country. "Native born Americans blaming cheap foreign labor for undercutting their wages during an economic downturn" isn't even a novelty: the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882.CommieGIR posted:There is no justification for what Sessions is doing, full stop. And arguing that there is law (there isn't law for separating families), does not make it just or correct. Lest we forget: Slavery was law. Jim Crow was law. Being law does not make it right. CommieGIR posted:Also: Bonus, DR doesn't understand that Sessions is specifically gutting immigration courts to make it more difficult to get public defenders. And no, DR, even minor offenses are entitled to Public Defenders. mlmp08 posted:We have very deliberately established a system where we publicly separate kids from their parents. This is to make immigrants too scared to immigrate here, including deterring people from trying to claim asylum, lest we decide their asylum claim isn't valid and then charge them with a crime. mlmp08 posted:
CommieGIR posted:DHS Secretary is now claiming they don't have a policy of seperating family members at the border. 
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Jun 18, 2018 16:12
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Maybe we should make some provision for keeping families together if we're going to be assholes and keep them in custody for illegally crossing the border.
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Jun 18, 2018 16:17
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Your a loving moron and your cherry picking Immigration law if you think the Naturalization Act was what I was talking about. Also: LMAO that you'd mention one of the most racist of Immigration Acts ever devised by bringing up the Chinese Exclusion Act. Well done. quote:Get off your soap box. No one here is arguing that the law is right because it is the law, I'm asking: if you think the law is wrong, what do you think the law should be instead?  There you go again with "The Word is the Law, and The Law is the Word" bullshit. The INTERPRETATION of the Law differs, and Sessions/Miller/Trump are loving vile racists who are using the interpretation of the law to push their vile views. Maybe not try to defend facist racists? Might be a good start for you DR. quote:You are not entitled to a public defender in immigration court, because it is an administrative hearing and not a criminal trial. You can't be convicted of any criminal offense in immigration court. See, here's where your wrong again: Sessions and Miller are arguing ANY and all immigrants appearing at the southern border are "Illegal", and its being widely reported that DHS is stopping people while trying to apply for legal immigration and arresting them, seperating them from their families, and then throwing them into jail to be prosecuted. Well done. You can't even defend LEGAL poo poo properly, because you are willingly ignoring what is going on. quote:Now you're doing it. Can you provide a single example of someone who entered the country legally, applied for asylum, had their claim rejected, and was subsequently charged with a crime related to their asylum application? https://splinternews.com/ice-agents-arrest-asylum-seeker-at-his-own-asylum-heari-1822930272 ICE has specifically targeted people seeking asylum/legally applying for asylum, you loving moron. quote:Separating families at the border =/= people being charged with crossing the border illegally not being able to bring their kids to federal detention with them. Stop confusing the issue. Hey, you. Bootlicking loving facist motherfucker https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/bogus-reasons-ice-uses-lock-asylum-seekers Please, by all means, keep defending Trump, Miller, and Sessions. Its not likely they have a racist history or anything that might compel them to disenfranchise asylum seekers.... ....oh.
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Jun 18, 2018 16:21
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DR. How about this perspective: There are 2000 children locked in concentration camps that WE loving put there. Cause this isn't a Democrat vs Republican thing. These are Americans locking children up and refusing aid and comfort. Argue all you want but that is what is happening right now. Being pedantic about why they showed up is irrelevant.
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