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drjuggalo posted:no its pretty bad and goes against a lot of other things the manga has portrayed/pushed out thematically How so?
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Jun 19, 2018 06:45
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Endeavor is meant to run counter to the established viewpoints and themes of the story presently because his problem is that he doesn't align with any established ideal of heroism. He's got none of the earnest, plucky idealism, none of the self-assuredness. He's all bluster and by-the-numbers. He represents another problem with the "pillar" idea - what it does to those below you. An unattainable goal combined with his competitive drive warped into something dark and he did some unforgivable poo poo. The heartening thing is that the story has made it fairly evident that he knows he did wrong, his son knows it, and his family knows it. His wife doesn't want to see him, and his children think he's scum. Shoto reluctantly learns from him, but it's thoroughly presented as a pragmatic decision for the good of his own future interests. All through this he's now the default top dog in a society freshly lacking its legendary support, and he (and everyone) is accutely aware that he's not up to the task of filling that role as he is now. The only problem with the whole thing is that it's a work of fiction - anything Horikoshi writes in from the mother's point of view has to be taken with a duty to the audience in mind. Even if it's possible that a victim of abuse might find a way to forgive, it would be irresponsible for a manga to portray things that way. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 07:16
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My issue with that tweet is that he contextualizes it as "humanizing an abuser" as if the fact that he is inhuman is not up for debate. For me, inhuman or monster is like knowingly and maliciously committing genocide or mass murder. Endeavor is somewhere on the "big loving piece of poo poo" tier of things.
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Jun 19, 2018 07:37
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oh jay posted:My issue with that tweet is that he contextualizes it as "humanizing an abuser" as if the fact that he is inhuman is not up for debate. For me, inhuman or monster is like knowingly and maliciously committing genocide or mass murder. I.E. In this very manga, Overhaul, who comatose'd a girls legal guardian, literally broke her down into pieces to create bullets full of her flesh and blood and then put her back together again, over and over again torturing and killing her.
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Jun 19, 2018 07:40
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oh jay posted:My issue with that tweet is that he contextualizes it as "humanizing an abuser" as if the fact that he is inhuman is not up for debate. For me, inhuman or monster is like knowingly and maliciously committing genocide or mass murder. I'm reminded of an old exchange. "These fiendish German atrocities----" "But are not fiends a figment of the imagination?" "Very well, then; these brutal atrocities----" "But none of the brutes does anything of the kind!" "Well, what am I to call them?" "Is it not plain that we must call them simply Human?" The same people who take part in a genocide on Monday might teach the neighborhood children how to play football on Tuesday. The most vile human beings are still human beings, and refusing to admit that makes it easier to do the same poo poo yourself. After all, you're not a bad person. It's different when you're the one doing it. (And if the people you're going to do it to are "less than human", well.) Of course, humanizing a real piece of poo poo is one thing. Excusing their actions is quite another.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:00
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I think treating your family like a Eugenics experiment is pretty inhuman. Anyway, I’m honestly really liking the interactions between Hawks and Endeavor and what it’s bringing to Endeavours character. There’s some cool stuff there. However to me it feels like there’s way too big a gap between the Endeavour of the past few chapters and how he was introduced, and it’s really hurting the story. I get that since All Mights retirement he has changed but while I can buy current Endeavour as a lovely dad and bad husband who alienated his family out of hatred of someone he has no reason to hate. I can’t really see him as the guy who married someone solely because of quirk compatibility and treated his kids less as individuals and more as things he could use to vicariously triumph over some guy he was jealous of.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:06
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Anyway, I’m honestly really liking the interactions between Hawks and Endeavor and what it’s bringing to Endeavours character. There’s some cool stuff there. However to me it feels like there’s way too big a gap between the Endeavour of the past few chapters and how he was introduced, and it’s really hurting the story. I get that since All Mights retirement he has changed but while I can buy current Endeavour as a lovely dad and bad husband who alienated his family out of hatred of someone he has no reason to hate. I can’t really see him as the guy who married someone solely because of quirk compatibility and treated his kids less as individuals and more as things he could use to vicariously triumph over some guy he was jealous of. Yeah, getting to know a person and understand how they act and react means it's harder for you to link that person back to your first impression of them, when all you had to go on was their looks and reputation. Honestly I don't think he's changed yet. He still acts the same as the Endeavour we first met, and while All Might is now gone and he's done some self reflecting, that has yet to materialize in his actions. Like, I don't think anything he said or did while walking and talking with Hawks was something he wouldn't have done back then, save maybe trying to give out an autograph. Also I think he's not gonna die for any kind of redemption, he's gonna die cause he's aiming to be number one and is eventually gonna bite off more than he can chew.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:20
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Onmi posted:I.E. In this very manga, Overhaul, who comatose'd a girls legal guardian, literally broke her down into pieces to create bullets full of her flesh and blood and then put her back together again, over and over again torturing and killing her. That probably falls under a very specific example of mass murder that can't possibly happen in real life. And I rewrote that post a half dozen times knowing I was going to word it wrong no matter what. I don't think I'm going to sway anyone, but in my personal morality, inhuman means that I would be willing to brain that person without losing much sleep. Hitler qualifies for me. That Vegas shooter I actively try to not learn the name of qualifies. Endeavour wouldn't. Your personally morality probably differs so I won't try to convince anyone otherwise.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:26
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Even Horikoshi doesn't seem to want to do it, seeing all the other characters being all about how he's an rear end in a top hat. "But he remembered my favorite flower" lady please, just because Endeavour is trying to change doesn't mean he has changed yet. I don't care if he changes and if the wife forgives him, actually. But I'll have a problem if Shoto forgives him out of the blue. The Dabi stuff makes even more leery of forgiveness. That said his maximized Scorching ray was pretty cool.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:29
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Also I think he's not gonna die for any kind of redemption, he's gonna die cause he's aiming to be number one and is eventually gonna bite off more than he can chew. first nomu all might fights: 'you're stronger than me at 100%??? ill just go stronger than that hahaha you're poo poo  first nomu endeavour fights: this thing is stronger AND faster than me?!?! with how much the manga made a point to show the gap between all might and endeavour if he at least doesnt die from this im not going to be impressed with this manga
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Jun 19, 2018 08:30
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For the record. Does ANYONE know if Dabi is actually related to Endeavour, or is this totally just fan theory still?
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Jun 19, 2018 08:30
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Onmi posted:For the record. Does ANYONE know if Dabi is actually related to Endeavour, or is this totally just fan theory still? full on fan theory all stemming from dabi knowing todorokis name (which would be possible by having his TV on during the sports festival) edit: and they both ate the fire-fire fruit drjuggalo fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 08:31
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drjuggalo posted:first nomu endeavour fights: Wait, no, he took down a bunch of the trash ones during the raid, too.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:46
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drjuggalo posted:full on fan theory all stemming from dabi knowing todorokis name (which would be possible by having his TV on during the sports festival) And we know Todoroki has two older brothers, with only one of them showing up this chapter, and no mention of where the other one might be. And Dabi joined based on Stain's message of "Seriously, heroes who aren't All Might are garbage." And we didn't get Dabi's name when everyone else's full name was being passed out. I was pretty skeptical at first, but the more we get, the better it fits. And if Endeavor's going to have any kind of redemption arc, shoving his face in the fact his parenting lead to one of his kids being a serial killer seems to be a pretty good way to force him to deal with consequences.
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Jun 19, 2018 08:58
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chiasaur11 posted:And we know Todoroki has two older brothers, with only one of them showing up this chapter, and no mention of where the other one might be. i GUEZZ, i wish todoroki would have either recognized the quirk or dabi himself when they saw each other especially now that we know their family actually all lives together edit: ok it makes sense if dabi is only a half brother, i would still rather have dabi killing endeavour than him becoming a family man lowercase16 posted:Second. couldn't wood man take them out too? best jeanists feat was more impressive than that drjuggalo fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 09:32
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Yeah, getting to know a person and understand how they act and react means it's harder for you to link that person back to your first impression of them, when all you had to go on was their looks and reputation. He asked All Might for advice, which is something I doubt he'd have done before and he seems very willing to listen to Hawks for advice. Who knows if he'll take the advice but he was listening. Like, this was a guy who saw his entire family as just a way to beat All Might and get that number 1 spot, and now he's gotten it and he doesn't seem to be either happy about it or enraged that he's lost any chance of surpassing All Might. Dude seems to be taken the whole thing rather seriously and maturely in a way. Which is just super weird cause he was introduced as like super obsessed with getting this thing, it was like one of the major parts of the character, and now that he's getting focus that part of his character just seems to be gone. Or way less important than it was originally presented.
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Jun 19, 2018 09:47
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getting the number 1 spot the way he did and having the object of his envy just disappear the way all might did left endeavor completely at a loss. he doesn't know what to do with himself and that's why he's asking people for advice. I think endeavor's being less of a dick because all might was like that and he's trying to emulate him. just acting like all might isn't the right thing either tho, as shown by his fans being disappointed and confused when he tried to sign that autograph earlier
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Jun 19, 2018 09:57
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It's been a while now, and he already threw his tantrum earlier.
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Jun 19, 2018 11:42
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Endeavor is that dog who REALLY wants to catch the car and now that he has doesn’t know what to do with it. Also he’s annoyed that the car stopped on its own instead of him overtaking it.
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Jun 19, 2018 16:08
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Well, it's also that the car's tires all blew out at once, and the body panels and doors fell off once it hit the ground to just reveal a regular guy inside.
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Jun 19, 2018 16:17
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the car was just a golf cart with a BIG BIG ENGINE but someone had punched the transmission out and blood was leaking everywhere the engine is now on a plywood go-kart covered in duct tape
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Jun 19, 2018 17:35
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Patware posted:the engine is now on a plywood go-kart covered in duct tape Hey that’s not a nice thing to say about Deku.
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Jun 19, 2018 17:44
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if he tries real hard eventually he'll move up to a nice larch
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Jun 19, 2018 17:51
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Patware posted:the car was just a golf cart with a BIG BIG ENGINE but someone had punched the transmission out and blood was leaking everywhere 
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Jun 19, 2018 22:09
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Shere posted:and he did some unforgivable poo poo. This is the part I don't agree with. It's largely because I am a bleeding heart who heavily believes in atonement and second chances. Particularly if the person genuinely wants to atone. drjuggalo posted:first nomu all might fights: 'you're stronger than me at 100%??? ill just go stronger than that hahaha you're poo poo The Nomu's vary in strength and honestly Endeavor is way better suited to fighting things like Nomu then All Might. So I highly doubt he will die. (Added on he has fought and beat several Nomu's at this point.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 22:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Nomu's vary in strength and honestly Endeavor is way better suited to fighting things like Nomu then All Might. So I highly doubt he will die. (Added on he has fought and beat several Nomu's at this point.)
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Jun 19, 2018 22:55
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symbolic posted:Those several Nomus were nowhere near the caliber of the current one. Even the one he tried to take down during Stain's arrest lacked the intellect of the current, and was probably not as physically powerful. I might not believe he'll die during this fight, but it's already proving to be a helluva challenge for him. Oh no doubt.
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Jun 19, 2018 22:58
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I don't think we're getting set up to have him die. This is basically the "Endeavor becomes a true hero of the people" moment where he gets beaten to poo poo saving people and fighting a tough opponent and shows his mettle and blah blah blah. That setup with his wife and kids wasn't so he can just die.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:18
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High-End is basically a combination of Muscular and Kurogiri, which is terrifying since both those quirks were tough to deal with when they were both active
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Jun 19, 2018 23:19
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Carlosologist posted:High-End is basically a combination of Muscular and Kurogiri, which is terrifying since both those quirks were tough to deal with when they were both active He does not seem at all like Kurogiri.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:21
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He's not gonna die during this fight. He's also not gonna live to see the end of this manga. There's gonna be some build up before he cans it.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:24
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Things would get seriously hosed up in society if Endeavor even won but got put in the hospital with severe injuries which is why I don't imagine anything happens here other than giving Endeavor a chance to show his stuff and establishing that there's a force out there that can crank out Top-Tier Noumu for the main cast to fight later.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:27
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Kanos posted:All the talk about Endeavor got me thinking about how completely hosed quirk society is going to be in a couple generations. I feel like quirk society would inevitably end up with a tiny minority of people bred to have super-quirks, like Todoroki, and a large majority of people with quirks diluted to uselessness due to like 20 unrelated minor quirks going into the mix. Also, we're shown examples of people who have obvious combos of their parents' quirks, but what combo initially lead to stuff like "nitroglycerin sweat" by itself? I get the impression that these people with obvious "Quirk A + Quirk B = Quirk C" situations might be an exception to the norm and over-represented at Deku's school due to it being an elite hero school in the first place. It seems like there's at least some chance of having random quirks unrelated to your parents'; at the very least that must have been the case with the very first quirks. edit: I mean, it's pretty clear that getting the sum of your parents' quirks isn't common, since there have already been quite a few generations since quirks first popped up (and most people don't have like 5+ different powers).
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Jun 19, 2018 23:56
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Ytlaya posted:I feel like quirk society would inevitably end up with a tiny minority of people bred to have super-quirks, like Todoroki, and a large majority of people with quirks diluted to uselessness due to like 20 unrelated minor quirks going into the mix. Most people have quirks related to their parent's quirks. Not necessarily combos, a lot lean more to one parent or another (see: Todoroki's family), but some are. People like Eri with completely new quirks are the exception, not the rule.
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Jun 20, 2018 00:07
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It's also implied quirks are expressing earlier and/or stronger. Mic comments during the test with the kids that he wasn't able to use his quirk like that at their age. So even if new quirks aren't being developed, the quirk factor that was mentioned during Overhaul arc still gets stronger.
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Jun 20, 2018 00:36
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Kyte posted:It's also implied quirks are expressing earlier and/or stronger. Mic comments during the test with the kids that he wasn't able to use his quirk like that at their age. Of course, it's pretty funny that Mic is the one saying it, since his quirk manifested at birth. Caused some serious hearing damage, too.
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Jun 20, 2018 00:38
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MonsterEnvy posted:He does not seem at all like Kurogiri. Even if it isn't made of Kurogiri, there's a good chance it has his Quirk. I would presume that his appearance is because of his Quirk and not a Tokoyami situation, and High End seems to resemble him at least a bit. Plus, I believe Hawks mentioned High End's been sighted all over Japan which, even if it has wings, would be an incredible feat...but not if it could warp wherever it wanted at a moment's notice.
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Jun 20, 2018 00:51
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chiasaur11 posted:Of course, it's pretty funny that Mic is the one saying it, since his quirk manifested at birth. Caused some serious hearing damage, too. 
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Jun 20, 2018 00:58
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symbolic posted:Even if it isn't made of Kurogiri, there's a good chance it has his Quirk. I would presume that his appearance is because of his Quirk and not a Tokoyami situation, and High End seems to resemble him at least a bit. Plus, I believe Hawks mentioned High End's been sighted all over Japan which, even if it has wings, would be an incredible feat...but not if it could warp wherever it wanted at a moment's notice. He does not look like Kurogiri at all and has shown no instances of using Kurogiri's quirk. There are rumors of Nomu sightings but nothing that says High End is teleporting. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 02:15
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