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Well, good luck with that. Certainly gonna need it if your fighters aren't getting any!
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Jun 20, 2018 19:05
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Allies certainly got some hits in there 
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Jun 20, 2018 19:25
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It's fine, those Allied CV's are gonna do something like pull up and try to duel the shore batteries with nothing but a very brave ensign on a .50 cal, everything is PERFECTLY FINE AND WILL BE FOREVER
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Jun 20, 2018 21:50
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19 June 1944 American troops began landing on Saipan last week, barely a week after D-Day, with the full might of Spruance's Fifth Fleet in support. In response, the Combined Fleet sortied in force under Admiral Ozawa seeking Decisive Battle. Nine Japanese carriers, five battleships, 13 cruisers, 31 destroyers, and 24 submarines opposed 15 American carriers, seven battleships, 21 cruisers, 68 destroyers, and 28 submarines. The American sub force detected Ozawa's fleet several days ago and, today, drew first blood (the Japanese carriers had already launched strikes, taking advantage of their long-range aircraft, but achieved nothing of significance). Albacore put a single torpedo into the brand-new fleet carrier Taiho. The damage was eminently survivable but, famously, serious damage-control blunders ultimately doomed the ship after the crew mistakenly vented aviation fuel fumes throughout the interior. As Taiho built to a climax, USS Cavalla hit the veteran Shokaku with three torpedoes, causing heavy fires, heavy damage. Shokaku was destroyed when the bomb room exploded. Russian MTBs torpedoed the German torpedo boat T-31 in the Gulf of Finland. 20 June 1944 Fifth Fleet's counterpunch came today from maximum range. The tattered Japanese air groups were less effective than the tyranny of distance and time. American aircraft sank Hiyo and damaged several other ships, but were disappointed by their inability to complete the destruction of Ozawa's force.
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Jun 21, 2018 02:26
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:19 June 1944 The conventional wisdom is that the CV eclipsed the BB after Pearl Harbor and they e ruled the waves ever since. What I see though is that the SS was the real threat to sea power, we’ve just never had the peer battle to dramatically prove it.
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Jun 21, 2018 06:15
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Ron Jeremy posted:The conventional wisdom is that the CV eclipsed the BB after Pearl Harbor and they e ruled the waves ever since. even outside of the successes of the Silent Service against Japanese combat ships, it's also quite true that the Japanese logistical system ground to a halt over the sheer amount of tonnage sunk of their merchant marine - essentially what Germany had been wanting to do to the UK, the US managed to do against Japan.
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Jun 21, 2018 07:33
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Ron Jeremy posted:The conventional wisdom is that the CV eclipsed the BB after Pearl Harbor and they e ruled the waves ever since. Subs can also only deny the seas, not control it. They have a very limited ability to project power and even that is more by an indirect delivery system for nukes/cruise missiles. Strategy requires not just denial of the sea to the enemy but the ability to control it for your own ends, and at least tactically now purely submarines cannot wholly manage this.
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Jun 21, 2018 07:34
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wedgekree posted:Subs can also only deny the seas, not control it. They have a very limited ability to project power and even that is more by an indirect delivery system for nukes/cruise missiles. To elaborate a little more on this for others, subs lack 'staying power.' Japan saw the carrier as a tactical weapon, the Kido Butai as a raiding force capable of doing immense damage but not suited for anything but hit-and-run affairs to sink enemy ships and damage installations. It was the Americans who developed the true carrier task force, fleets that could stand toe to toe with occupied islands and grind them down with sustained air power. This is what's meant by control of the sea, and it's an effect submarines were not capable of. Submarines could and did strangle enemy logistics and prevent reinforcement and resupply, but they could not make a stretch of the ocean safe for their own side's supply convoys, invasion forces, etc.
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Jun 21, 2018 13:29
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Ron Jeremy posted:The conventional wisdom is that the CV eclipsed the BB after Pearl Harbor and they e ruled the waves ever since.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:36
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quote:Albacore put a single torpedo into the brand-new fleet carrier Taiho. The damage was eminently survivable but, famously, serious damage-control blunders ultimately doomed the ship after the crew mistakenly vented aviation fuel fumes throughout the interior. 
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Jun 22, 2018 01:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:even outside of the successes of the Silent Service against Japanese combat ships, it's also quite true that the Japanese logistical system ground to a halt over the sheer amount of tonnage sunk of their merchant marine - essentially what Germany had been wanting to do to the UK, the US managed to do against Japan. Not helped by the fact that the Japanese didn't put commerce defense into their overall war plan.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:33
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SolarFire2 posted:Not helped by the fact that the Japanese didn't put commerce defense into their overall war plan. And ASW was a low-priority, low-prestige role. So they gave it zero money and assigned all of the washout idiots to run it.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:35
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To be fair, weren't even the Americans surprised at just how effective their sub campaign turned out to be? Though I guess Japan's general lack of a response meant it was like the German Happy Times, but like, the whole time.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:40
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:To be fair, weren't even the Americans surprised at just how effective their sub campaign turned out to be? Though I guess Japan's general lack of a response meant it was like the German Happy Times, but like, the whole time. They were surprised at how ineffective Japanese ASW was, but no. Japan had the same vulnerability to submarine interdiction as Britain, and so the US employed submarines for the same reason Germany used them against Britain. One of the alternative plans for dealing with the Home Islands was Operation Starvation: impose a total blockade of Japan and wait for starvation and disease to bring the Japanese to their knees. Zeroisanumber posted:And ASW was a low-priority, low-prestige role. So they gave it zero money and assigned all of the washout idiots to run it. Minesweeping, too. By the end of the war the Inland Sea was a nightmare of explosives under the surface just waiting for a ship to be foolish enough to set sail. The US and Australians were very free with air-dropped naval mines.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:47
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PittTheElder posted:To be fair, weren't even the Americans surprised at just how effective their sub campaign turned out to be? Though I guess Japan's general lack of a response meant it was like the German Happy Times, but like, the whole time. The effectiveness took a while. They had to develop aggressive tactics and doctrine, weed out non-aggressive skippers, and fix torpedo problems. There was a lot of frustration for a couple of years at the beginning, and by the end presumably a whole bunch of old ideas about what a modern navy could accomplish had been upended. Also a lot of secrecy, I think it took awhile for what they actually did to get out.
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Jun 22, 2018 03:06
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   We sink another ship off Buna.  Aww, no kill here.  This is getting better!  Oof. Spoke to soon.   We're going through another quiet phase, and I've still not been able to show off my Tojos! Wait, that sounded less dirty in my head. 
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Jun 22, 2018 18:20
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  I almost feel sorry for the poor buggers.  This is just extermination.  My god they are everywhere!  Something out here has carrier support.  Here come the air strikes. There are five more, but nothing happens bar a few damaged planes.  My Tojo's see action at last!  We sink two more ships. Actual ships this time.  The carriers are on hand, and strike the light carrier, but the flak is murder.  These guys go for an easier target.  We pick off some of their bombers here.  We slam more shells into Buna airfield.   Hmm, that's two US sub attacks in a month!   The superforts hit Saigon.   They have a carrier off Wake.  A nice world spanning day. Shame we didn't get any hits on that carrier!  No points for the landing craft, just a feeling of happyness.
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Jun 22, 2018 18:21
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Grey Hunter posted:
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Jun 22, 2018 18:52
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Air defence only works on the target hex.
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Jun 22, 2018 18:53
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*flips a giant bird at the allies losing so many ships because god damnit this spreadsheet is yuge*
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Jun 22, 2018 18:59
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Get those raiders back to resupply because the USN is doing the same thing they did before the Iowa /Musashi battle and making the IJN run out of ammo.
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Jun 22, 2018 19:06
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Jobbo_Fett posted:*flips a giant bird at the allies losing so many ships because god damnit this spreadsheet is yuge* I don't think boats need to be tracked the same as ships, unless there's some jokester claiming LCVPs.
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Jun 22, 2018 19:09
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ponzicar posted:I don't think boats need to be tracked the same as ships, unless there's some jokester claiming LCVPs. I'm tracking all ships all ways though. Also each of those LCVPs is 1 VP
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Jun 22, 2018 19:14
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So what angry shooty hell ship were those LCVPs acting as shell absorbers/"ablative armor" for?Grey Hunter posted:Air defence only works on the target hex. "Most realistic WWII game", huh? 
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Jun 22, 2018 19:44
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Shouldn't they be attached to an LSD mothership or transport group or something if they're not making a landing? It's not like they can even do ASW.
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Jun 22, 2018 20:22
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21 June 1944 I almost inextricably associate PT boats with the Solomons campaign, but they also saw plenty of service in the Mediterranean, today sinking the German torpedo boat TA-25 (ex-Italian Ardito) near Viareggio. Mines off Normandy claim another ship: destroyer HMS Fury crippled and run aground in a storm. Russian aircraft badly damaged the minesweeper M-538 near Viborg; never repaired. 22 June 1944 British "Chariot" human torpedo sinks the decommissioned Italian cruiser Bolzano (intended by the Germans as a blockship) at La Spezia.
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Jun 22, 2018 20:56
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Would minesweepers rigged to set off magnetic mines have any chance at prematurely detonating magnetic fused torpedoes?
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Jun 22, 2018 21:29
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Decoy Badger posted:Would minesweepers rigged to set off magnetic mines have any chance at prematurely detonating magnetic fused torpedoes? I suppose, except magnetic influence torpedoes sort of didn't work during WWII.
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Jun 22, 2018 21:46
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Decoy Badger posted:Would minesweepers rigged to set off magnetic mines have any chance at prematurely detonating magnetic fused torpedoes? Norway prematurely detonated magnetic exploders, so I don't think there's any reason why a minesweeper couldn't in principle. I'm sure there are plenty of potentially confounding factors in practice, though.
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Jun 22, 2018 22:47
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frankenfreak posted:How are they getting all the way from Burma to the southern end of Vietnam? Is there no air defence to stop them anywhere along the presumed route? CAP gets assigned to priority targets in the range of defending airbases, depending on how the CAP/LRCAP sliders are set. Fighters in Burma can't intercept since they're too far from the target hex. Not that this is too unrealistic, the Superfortress can fly higher and faster than just about anything Grey has in theater, and the Japanese did not have the elaborate air-defense network that Germany developed. I read in a supplemental manual that air superiority (a hidden stat over all hexes) can increase operational losses from long range missions flying over those hexes, but if that mechanic does exist it's been intentionally obfuscated like many of the weird rules in the game. Edit: Just had this happen. Proof that planes can get intercepted on the way back without being shown. 
Triggerhappypilot fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 23, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 01:57
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Triggerhappypilot posted:CAP gets assigned to priority targets in the range of defending airbases, depending on how the CAP/LRCAP sliders are set. Fighters in Burma can't intercept since they're too far from the target hex. Not that this is too unrealistic, the Superfortress can fly higher and faster than just about anything Grey has in theater, and the Japanese did not have the elaborate air-defense network that Germany developed. Did they have the capability? I think the territory Japaan occupied would have just been too large to cover even if they did. Burma alone was bigger than Greater Germany.
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Jun 23, 2018 02:53
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https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1010175700660301824
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Jun 23, 2018 14:32
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Wow, I didn't think that the coast of South America would have seen so much action. Also surprised by the cluster of action along the west coast of Africa, but that's probably Germans trying to keep British colonial resources from coming up towards Great Britain. Too bad this doesn't have the west coast of the US/Canada and Hawaii.
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Jun 23, 2018 15:57
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habeasdorkus posted:Wow, I didn't think that the coast of South America would have seen so much action. There was a pretty big convoy route for oil from Port of Spain, Trinidad to Rio de Janero.
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Jun 23, 2018 17:33
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  This one worries me for a moment, as this is the best defended convoy I've seen, but experience wins the day!  They then take out a PT boat.  The two more.  The Japanese version of Das Boot is looking good....  I pay a heavy price, but I get some hits on the light carrier!  The flak from destroyers is murder now. Let alone the larger ships!  The flak continues.  We do get a couple of kills.  Yeah, the American subs are back in action.   Something happens in Burma – still only planes, but it's something.  Owch, that was a lot of flak.  Boom, it was worth it though!
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Jun 23, 2018 18:36
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What happened with I-5? It fired a torpedo, and then ran at the convoy balls out with its 3 inch gun? It's too bad it sank, that Captain would've been perfect TF leader for the raiders.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:08
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No, I will not be labeling/dating all of these.  23 June 1944 Mines claim yet another ship off Normandy as anti-aircraft cruiser HMS Scylla is a constructive total loss after massive shock damage irreparably warps her hull members.
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Jun 24, 2018 00:43
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:No, I will not be labeling/dating all of these.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:26
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7 bomb hits on a CVL should be pretty serious. And at that range they are the 500kg bombs right? I think I asked this before and I dont remember if anyone answered, but does the game actually put George HW Bush on the San Jacinto or is it just random names?
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Jun 24, 2018 05:14
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Lakedaimon posted:7 bomb hits on a CVL should be pretty serious. And at that range they are the 500kg bombs right? no matter what else happens if grey manages to send Bush I down into davy jones locker this becomes the better timeline
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Jun 24, 2018 07:16
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