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vessbot posted:This is on the same level as the ones that don't like flying airplanes. First I was flabbergasted, then I became genuinely emphatically disappointed for them. It's actually tragic, starting on this career for whatever initial reason (maybe they saw a really cool flying movie, or something, who knows) and by the time the initial appeal wore off, they're locked into a miserable career doing something they don't enjoy. And stuck as a lifer at a regional, to boot. Those ones are dangerous, too. They are always complacent as gently caress and can’t handle a visual approach or any non standard situation. The airplane nerds may be painful to talk to but at least most of them are on top of things in the cockpit. The “i’m here cause daddy was a pilot” is the kind I hate the most.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:21
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vessbot posted:And stuck as a lifer at a regional, to boot. Other than self-selecting it for whatever reason, what is it that'll keep you stuck at a regional forever?
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Jun 18, 2018 01:23
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Animal posted:My favorite ones are the ones who will walk for 20 minutes wondering around insanely awesome culinary places like Taipei or Naples... looking for a Subway or a McDonalds. They eat, and go back to lock themselves in their hotel room to stream Fox News on their computers and rant on Airline Pilot Central. Ugh, yeah. At a previous job I flew to a conference in Vancouver with a couple of coworkers. Hey, guys, it's dinnertime -- want to wander around this incredible dynamic city and try some of the world-class Chinese food? No? How about Japanese? Thai? Vietnamese? Or literally anything else that's new and unusual? Nope, they shot down every suggestion I gave and eventually decided on a Moxie's (think Canadian version of Applebee's) and then the whole time bitched that it wasn't actually an Applebee's or T.G.I.Friday's. Waste of air.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:32
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DrDork posted:Other than self-selecting it for whatever reason, what is it that'll keep you stuck at a regional forever? Like any other career, a vicious cycle of self loathing that leads to a lovely resume and personality. Most of them hate their place in life, but are so ground down by the system that they have no motivation or will to improve their situation. After a while they are locked in place by a set of excuses: can’t afford first year pay somewhere else, can’t move or commute to a junior base, can’t be proactive about going to job fairs or getting a degree or volunteering (I totally understand these.) Before they realize if, they are in their late 40’s and suddenly their regional is about to die. Some of the happiest pilots I have worked with in my company are the late 50’s guys who worked at the regionals for 20 years, and finally found the strength of will to leave. They are happy as gently caress like they just left prison, thrilled to be flying a widebody airplane and visiting new countries for the first time. There are at least 3 that I used to fly with in my regional days who were absolutely miserable captains and are now completely different persons as FO’s here. It’s great. They even open Instagram accounts to share their travel selfies like rich teenage girls studying abroad Animal fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 01:32
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Some are self-selecting booger eaters like we've been complaining about, but to be fair some are plain unlucky. You ever had a genuine misunderstanding with somebody over something? There's only so much you can glean in an interview (positive or negative), no matter how good of an interviewer you are.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:38
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loving awful app ate my post
Animal fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 01:42
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vessbot posted:This is on the same level as the ones that don't like flying airplanes. First I was flabbergasted, then I became genuinely emphatically disappointed for them. It's actually tragic, starting on this career for whatever initial reason (maybe they saw a really cool flying movie, or something, who knows) and by the time the initial appeal wore off, they're locked into a miserable career doing something they don't enjoy. And stuck as a lifer at a regional, to boot. I don't understand this. I mean, it's so expensive and so much work to get to the point that you're a commercial pilot, much less an ATP, I just can't imagine who would go through all that without enjoying flying airplanes. I wasn't sure I'd like it enough to do it as a career (I suppose I'm still not 100% sure), and that's why I took a decade between finishing my PPL and starting my CPL to try other things. And if it turns out I hate doing it as a career, I'll quit and do something else. It'd be an expensive mistake to make, but not insurmountable, and it's better to give up and move on than to stay miserable your whole life.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:42
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vessbot posted:Some are self-selecting booger eaters like we've been complaining about, but to be fair some are plain unlucky. You ever had a genuine misunderstanding with somebody over something? There's only so much you can glean in an interview (positive or negative), no matter how good of an interviewer you are. This is true. You also have guys who are great pilots and have paid their dues and then legacy airline HR departments will reject them for the most fickle reasons like “he’s got too much PIC time maybe he’s too set in his ways.” Then they’ll turn around and hire some 26 year old rich kid with only two jobs in his resume. Speaking of which, I actually have one of these 20-something dudes in my facebook who was genuine bitching that he got assigned the MD88 at Delta. Literally all “I’m grateful for the job BUT I was expecting the 737 this is disappointing but oh well” I was daydreaming I could telekinesis his smartphone to explode in his eyes
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Jun 18, 2018 01:50
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DrDork posted:Other than self-selecting it for whatever reason, what is it that'll keep you stuck at a regional forever? Some of it can be bad timing. I'm at a regional that's seriously top heavy, and a lot of those guys got caught here for several years with the 2001 and 2008 recessions, so they're now in their 50's, and lack college degrees, so it's less work to stay here than try and get to a major.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:50
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Animal posted:This is true. You also have guys who are great pilots and have paid their dues and then legacy airline HR departments will reject them for the most fickle reasons like “he’s got too much PIC time maybe he’s too set in his ways.” Then they’ll turn around and hire some 26 year old rich kid with only two jobs in his resume.  did that guy know anything about Delta?
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Jun 18, 2018 01:51
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The MD88 seems way cooler than the 737 anyway. Love that buzzsaw noise
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 01:53
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Aaand that's my cue to post this again https://youtu.be/7R0CViDUBFs Edit: and to quote myself from the AI thread: me posted:Every time I see this video I think it's interesting but too boring to watch again, but every next time, nope! I'm proven wrong yet again. vessbot fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 02:11
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vessbot posted:Aaand that's my cue to post this again https://youtu.be/7R0CViDUBFs Thanks for sharing that. Mad Dogs own. They may be uncomfortable to jumpseat on but it’s always fun to sit there and watch, it’s like some Steampunk flying contraption, all that’s missing is if they could make all the levers and handles and gauges out of bronze. It would look badass. I really wanna fly one, it’s one of my favorite airplanes.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:16
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Animal posted:Thanks for sharing that. Mad Dogs own. They may be uncomfortable to jumpseat on but it’s always fun to sit there and watch, it’s like some Steampunk flying contraption, all that’s missing is if they could make all the levers and handles and gauges out of bronze. It would look badass. 
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Jun 18, 2018 02:17
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The compass is the  est thing
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Jun 18, 2018 02:18
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Well I'd love to keep talking airplane nerd poo poo (while simultaneously shaming the... wrong kind of airplane nerds?) but it's time to go to bed for my 0500 van tomorrow 
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Jun 18, 2018 02:23
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My check ride now starts at 0600 in a couple weeks and, due to an odd number of people, I will be coupled with my instructor. I feel like I won the lottery.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:48
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I took a taxi to a local bike shop and rented a bike and rode 40 miles around Cape Girardeau Missouri on a 40 hour sit this weekend and had a blast. My crew looked at me like I was crazy as they sat in the hotel doing fuckall. SAD 
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Jun 18, 2018 02:48
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All this talk about bizarre personalities reminds me of the guy in my Orientation to Aviation class when I was a student who was such an optimist that he just didn't want to get that Delta would not hire him with 300TT and a partially completed associate's degree if he took the initiative to self-pay for a 737 type rating while in college. "But they'll really be impressed that I made the effort!" There are few people in the world I've wanted to kick in the nuts repeatedly more.  Honorable mention goes to the actually-737-type-rated person who came to my office about three weeks ago wanting to finish their A&P (they have the general and airframe courses done, they just need Powerplant) and also wanting to be a maintenance helper at an FBO and (stifles laughter)...wants to go fly the line one day a week at PSA so they can stay current. It took all I had to not laugh them right out of the office suite. Why yes, a regional airline is going to give you an out-and-back line to fly every Tuesday, come on down! Aviation can be...special. (e- Completing the podium is the guy who came into the office on campus one day wearing a suit jacket with his flight school uniform wings pinned to it. Christ.  )Sagebrush posted:The MD88 seems way cooler than the 737 anyway. Love that buzzsaw noise Did someone say buzzsaw noise? Praise be to the 757, in its two flavors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rF0nE3jatw&t=619s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-1Q2vtLDis&t=60s CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 14:47
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azflyboy posted:Some of it can be bad timing. Yeah, that's the sort of thing that's giving me pause about joining the industry. I know being military and having a technical degree are generally helpful, but being a rotor guy with no ME time makes me worry about getting stuck at the regionals for a good while. Doubly so in that part of the rationale for leaving the military in the first place was the lovely quality of life and schedule.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:17
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Meanwhile at PSA: 
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Jun 18, 2018 15:48
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AWSEFT posted:Meanwhile at PSA: Typos are included? One of my friends who now works as an audit manager there has been pressed back into service as a scheduling coordinator due to the clusterfuck.
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Jun 18, 2018 17:01
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AWSEFT posted:Meanwhile at PSA: They can only afford one 'r' per word? Things must be really bad!
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Jun 18, 2018 17:09
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vessbot posted:Aaand that's my cue to post this again https://youtu.be/7R0CViDUBFs I'd forgotten about Kent Wien, but he seems like he'd be a top quality guy to fly with. Also, watching that video and seeing all the little quirky, glorious things the Mad Dog can do makes me sadder they'll all probably be gone (at least in the MD-80 form) by 2021, though the magic mirrors watching the compass might be a pain in the dick if you really had to lean on the mag compass itself. At least Delta's keeping the MD-90s around a while longer.
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Jun 18, 2018 17:33
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CBJSprague24 posted:I'd forgotten about Kent Wien, but he seems like he'd be a top quality guy to fly with. With Boeing throwing temper tantrums and Trump in the White House it would not surprise me to see Delta flying them well into the 2020s because they can't get the C-series and A321s they ordered.
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Jun 18, 2018 17:40
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hobbesmaster posted:With Boeing throwing temper tantrums and Trump in the White House it would not surprise me to see Delta flying them well into the 2020s because they can't get the C-series and A321s they ordered. Both are being built in the USA. Shouldn't be a problem.
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Jun 18, 2018 17:44
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Butt Reactor posted:That's why I delayed upgrade until I could hold a line, and also got rid of my place in SLC and moved to Chicago so I wouldn't commute, unlike many of my friends here. If you are ORD based come down to Logan Square and get drunk with me some time (and yes that's an open invite to anybody else that's based here) Hah, I'm in Avondale every Thursday night at PS:1. Details may need a PM, we've got a couple pilots too.
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Jun 18, 2018 21:44
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AWSEFT posted:Both are being built in the USA. Shouldn't be a problem. Never underestimate how stupid Trump is.
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Jun 18, 2018 22:06
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Weep for the next generation of pilots... I'm an instructor now!  Class 4, I start working Thursday.
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Jun 19, 2018 03:58
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PT6A posted:Weep for the next generation of pilots... I'm an instructor now! Congrats! Hardest rating by far.
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Jun 19, 2018 04:14
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e.pilot posted:Congrats! Hardest rating by far. It was certainly a lot of work. I feel like there's a difference between the Canadian and US regulations and standards, because although it was a lot of work, I don't feel it was difficult or tricky in the way a lot of American pilots have said. In a way I felt like the flight test was less stressful than any of the others I've done. It was built around actually teaching a lesson (plus some other randomly-chosen exercises) after being told where the "student" is in their training, so it felt a lot more like a flight that would actually happen, instead of a CPL flight test which is an amalgamation of all the situations that might happen on any given flight. PT6A fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 04:32
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PT6A posted:It was certainly a lot of work. I feel like there's a difference between the Canadian and US regulations and standards, because although it was a lot of work, I don't feel it was difficult or tricky in the way a lot of American pilots have said. Canada, the rating is easier but you are effectively an "apprentice" still as a Class 4. America, the rating is harder, but you're on your own. For some context for our freedom-lovin' friends, in the land of Maple Syrup we start as a Class 4 Instructor and must work for a school and be closely supervised by a Class 1 or 2. After 3 solos and 3 successful flight tests you become a Class 3 and can work with minimal-to-no supervision. After 10 flight tests (no solo requirement, but an hour requirement I forget) you can do a written exam and a ride and become a Class 2 and start supervising. After another exam, more hours, and a ride you can become a Class 1 and teach Class 4 Initials. Each step typically comes with a significant pay raise. I bailed on instructing as a Class 2 despite having the hours to go Class 1 because I was just way too done with instructing after 1500 hours of Dual Given. Interestingly, there is a mass shortage of Class 1 and 2 instructors now as everyone seems to be jumping to better jobs straight from Class 4 or 3. I've gotten some unsolicited but impressive job offers that I'm in no way interested in. I have a friend who decided to become a career instructor (he's a crazy person) and is running a flight school for $120k+ despite having like maybe 5-6 years experience
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Jun 19, 2018 04:46
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Desi posted:Canada, the rating is easier but you are effectively an "apprentice" still as a Class 4. America, the rating is harder, but you're on your own. For some context for our freedom-lovin' friends, in the land of Maple Syrup we start as a Class 4 Instructor and must work for a school and be closely supervised by a Class 1 or 2. After 3 solos and 3 successful flight tests you become a Class 3 and can work with minimal-to-no supervision. After 10 flight tests (no solo requirement, but an hour requirement I forget) you can do a written exam and a ride and become a Class 2 and start supervising. After another exam, more hours, and a ride you can become a Class 1 and teach Class 4 Initials. Each step typically comes with a significant pay raise. I bailed on instructing as a Class 2 despite having the hours to go Class 1 because I was just way too done with instructing after 1500 hours of Dual Given. Yeah, I figured the apprenticeship-style thing might be the difference but I wasn't familiar enough with the American system to say anything. We're absolutely suffering a shortage of class 1 and 2 instructors -- we have two class 2s and one class 1 (the CFI) working full-time at the moment, so getting supervision signed off should be a bit of an adventure. Hopefully there's enough class 3s who want to upgrade, but I doubt it at the current pay scale the way the job market looks right now. I think the hour requirement for class 2 is something like 500 hours instructing and 400 towards PPL, CPL or RPP specifically, but barring very fortunate circumstances I can't see getting the required number of flight tests in during that time unless you're uncommonly lucky. I think the CARS also say you have to have held a class 3 rating in the previous 12 months, but I'm not clear on whether that means you have to have held it for 1 year continuously, or just any time within those 12 months.
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Jun 19, 2018 05:04
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Captain Apollo posted:Even me? Yes even you, just don't go off on a tangent on Mooneys otherwise you'll never get invited again KodiakRS posted:1. Leave your west coast base for ORD Wait how did you know how I've been living the last several months? Sagebrush posted:Ugh, yeah. At a previous job I flew to a conference in Vancouver with a couple of coworkers. Hey, guys, it's dinnertime -- want to wander around this incredible dynamic city and try some of the world-class Chinese food? No? How about Japanese? Thai? Vietnamese? Or literally anything else that's new and unusual? Oh god, you probably had to spend the night at either the travelodge or sandman if that's the YVR hotels I'm thinking of with a Moxie's attached  I'm not fond of the slam-clickers, but I get it if this 4-day is your only escape from a bitchy wife, bratty kids, or overbearing neighbors. However lately I've been lucky enough to fly with people who are actually willing to go out and check out stuff on the overnights. Hell, I just finished Day 5 of a 4-day and if it wasn't for the copilot and FAs I flew with being personable, I would've blown my brains out when getting stuck in Toronto on the last night of the trip. e.pilot posted:I took a taxi to a local bike shop and rented a bike and rode 40 miles around Cape Girardeau Missouri on a 40 hour sit this weekend and had a blast. My crew looked at me like I was crazy as they sat in the hotel doing fuckall. This, loving this. Make something of it, even if it's somewhere as lovely as the hometown of Rush Limbaugh. Nerobro posted:Hah, I'm in Avondale every Thursday night at PS:1. Details may need a PM, we've got a couple pilots too.
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Jun 20, 2018 23:32
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Butt Reactor posted:Yes even you, just don't go off on a tangent on Mooneys otherwise you'll never get invited again It actually was a lot better riding than I was expecting for bumfuck missouri, nice rolling hills, drivers were all super polite, I had a great time other than the humidity basically being 100% on a 90º day. https://www.strava.com/activities/1642827830     
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Jun 20, 2018 23:47
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Butt Reactor posted:Oh god, you probably had to spend the night at either the travelodge or sandman if that's the YVR hotels I'm thinking of with a Moxie's attached Wow, Vancouver has a horrible Sandman attached to a Moxie's that's used as a crew hotel as well? Calgary has one too!
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Jun 21, 2018 00:44
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I should start taking my bike now that I’m getting on a plane it will fit in... Hmm...
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Jun 21, 2018 01:49
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e.pilot posted:It actually was a lot better riding than I was expecting for bumfuck missouri, nice rolling hills, drivers were all super polite, I had a great time other than the humidity basically being 100% on a 90º day. Hey man, welcome to the south.... please don’t tell anyone
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Jun 21, 2018 02:28
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PT6A posted:Wow, Vancouver has a horrible Sandman attached to a Moxie's that's used as a crew hotel as well? Calgary has one too! TBF that sandman in YYC is a shithole but it's saving grace is that it's downtown, I've had more than one overnight end up in some nearby crazy bar like Ceili's or that stupid country bar by the overpass.
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Jun 21, 2018 05:09
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 This pretty much sums up how I feel about flying. I'm over it. Not miserable, not ecstatic, just neutral and ambivalent. Same with layovers -- literally do not care where I go. My only desire is to do what I gotta do and then go home.
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Jun 21, 2018 06:10
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