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I’m not one of those “I hate game journos so much I have to keep tabs on everything they do ever” kinds of people but man it was loving weird how all of them went into a pre-programmed robot mode to defend DmC during its development, promotion, release, and slow sales failure. I think the only thing I’m not looking forward to with regards to DMCV is seeing all those same people go into the same routine. It’s weird how a group of people who are traditionally pretty liberal desperately feel the need to defend a game where a woman is aborted via a .50 cal and child molestation is just kinda dropped as part of a character’s backstory.
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Jun 24, 2018 10:11
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It really was the weirdest thing and had to be coordinated. It has never been done in such a blatant way since.
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Jun 24, 2018 13:28
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If Capcom DIDN'T pay off a bunch of people to defend their controversial reboot I will eat my own hat.
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Jun 24, 2018 13:46
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I was writing an effort post but it's not worth it. Anyway, DmC is not that bad*, it's incredibly unlikely that journos were paid by Capcom, and it's more likely that their opinions of the fanbase were colored by the initial backlash to the first teaser trailer and having seen promising new directions for other gaming series sort of taken down by conservative and vocal fan backlash. * still the second to last in my rankings of the series, but significantly closer to the quality of the other games than DMC2 ever was
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Jun 24, 2018 14:07
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I was writing an effort post but it's not worth it. Anyway, DmC is not that bad*, it's incredibly unlikely that journos were paid by Capcom, and it's more likely that their opinions of the fanbase were colored by the initial backlash to the first teaser trailer and having seen promising new directions for other gaming series sort of taken down by conservative and vocal fan backlash. In short: gently caress that nonsense. gently caress that nonsense right in its rear end. In long: Deciding that, all together now, you will blame the fans for not buying something they expressed no interest in, slander the rest of the series, and treat a game that, as has been mentioned features a sniper rifle abortion, like high art, and essentially plugging their ears before, during and after release to pretend it was some magical blessing that the plebs case aside... If what you're saying is that, instead of money, they did that because people they didn't like were vocally against it, then that's far worse. Instead of being advocates for the consumer, instead of accurately reviewing and reporting on the game, instead of actually listening to the community that was being represented, they chose, and still choose to do, to this loving day, go to swing for a bad product and poo poo all over the people who did the grand, unforgivable sin of not spending $60+ for a game they expressed no desire to play in the first place. At least being greedy is loving reasonable. EDIT: And to clarify, what I am saying is not "Saying DmC is good means you have to have been paid" What I'm saying is "Saying that DmC failed because of entitled fans not spending their money" without being paid, makes you a buffoon Onmi fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 14:32
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Being a games journalist is basically social engineering but by morons and yet, it's still sadly effective. They're really just trying to tell you what is and isn't okay to like. Every time I see someone say Metacritic is proof that a game is good or bad, I die inside.
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Jun 24, 2018 15:11
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I know several people who are severely allergic to anything that seems 'anime' and never played a DMC game before the remake. Most of them enjoyed it even if the story was bad. I have no trouble believing a lot of people in the same position would be taken aback by the sheer force of fan backlash. Especially considering noone in their right mind could call any of the previous games' stories 'good'. It's the scenes that already have been mentioned that really made DMC's story the poo poo pile it is. I'm a pretty bad DMC player myself and had no issue with DMCs lowered skill ceiling. But I still rank DMC3 the highest, followed by 4. 4 would be higher if you didn't fight like every boss twice.
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Jun 24, 2018 15:12
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https://twitter.com/DMC5Info/status/1010876626530336769
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Jun 24, 2018 15:17
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Remember Me already did that  I hope the normal track is fun to listen to, since I will probably never get to hear the chorus haha
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Jun 24, 2018 15:22
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Owns
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Jun 24, 2018 15:24
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Maybe we all need to look at the one thing DmC marketed itself off after the initial reaction, a giant gently caress you to existing fans, expecting them to buy it anyway out of some sort of brand loyalty; and consider that this is what attracted so many journos to Ninja Theory's cause. Because Ninja Theory's Boss sure as poo poo made no small bones about mocking people for not liking the style of their game to the point of saying the older games were far too homosexual for real gamers (while he desperately re-functioned its color, graphics and Donte gabber just to make it more DEVIL MAY CRY LIKE). A vision that this game could let them bully an already typically cowed consumer base into further submission that you'll buy it anyway, while they prance about defenses of ARTISTIC VISION and THIS IS JUST HOW GAMES ARE MADE NOW, MAN CHILD. They hoped to be able to manipulate and profit off of an outrage they started between an imaginary consumer that couldn't care and real physical people that sure as poo poo didn't like them for any of DmC. Only for this all to spectacularly flop possibly harder than DMC2. Nah, Journos could smell the spite in this game and that's why they put effort into trying to hawk it. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 15:33
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Dude it's been five years. NT made a mediocre game with a bad story and did some tone-deaf PR. Let it go.
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Jun 24, 2018 15:37
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No, NT still needs poo poo for those really crude slides where they said that DMC was Brokeback Mountain, thus bad because its gay.
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Jun 24, 2018 15:46
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Crabtree posted:No, NT still needs poo poo for those really crude slides where they said that DMC was Brokeback Mountain, thus bad because its gay. I'll give you that one. But I would like to read what they actually were saying during that presentation. That would be very interesting.
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Jun 24, 2018 15:59
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Yeah, I think more games should integrate Sonic Unleashed music gimmicks, so this is good Crabtree posted:No, NT still needs poo poo for those really crude slides where they said that DMC was Brokeback Mountain, thus bad because its gay. Yeah, this did happen and while it was a terribly lame thing to do it’s still surreal it happened at all, really
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Jun 24, 2018 16:00
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I wonder if the guy who put that slide together was the one who wanted Monkey to kick a defenseless prisoner to his death because it would make him more 'badass'. Alex Garland: "For example, I think the first serious discussion we had about the narrative was on the very first day that I, Tameem and the level designers all sat down together. We got to a section where Monkey was walking down a walkway, and he sees an escaping slave trying to pull himself up to the walkway. And instead of helping the guy up, Monkey kicked him in the face and sent him to his death. They thought that projected the idea that Monkey was a badass. Whereas, to me, it projected the idea that Monkey was a bit of a oval office." Renoistic fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 16:04
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Itsuno did most of the combat for DmC by the way, so thank him for it being not completely awful.
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Jun 24, 2018 16:12
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That slide was part of a longer presentation on DmC's art direction and was a joke on Capcom asking Ninja Theory to show them what Dante would look like in a western movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Pz8WiEW4U I think it was inappropriate to choose Brokeback Mountain specifically because of the undertone of homophobia that it injects in the joke, intentional or not, but I really have no idea how it became "Ninja Theory made fun of the original Dante for being gay." However, I agree that Tameem Antoniades is a boorish buffoon based on the fact that he said he wished Dante *was* gay just to stoke controversy. That's... that's not the representation anyone who isn't straight or cis wants, thank you very much.
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Jun 24, 2018 16:24
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:However, I agree that Tameem Antoniades is a boorish buffoon based on the fact that he said he wished Dante *was* gay just to stoke controversy. That's... that's not the representation anyone who isn't straight or cis wants, thank you very much. speak for yourself
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Jun 24, 2018 16:31
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DMC4 Dante was the best Dante because he was the gayest and cowboyest in that one, it's not rocket science This is the one thing that can make me care about getting good ranks in these kinda games.
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Jun 24, 2018 17:37
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i hate DmC because the giant unborn demon baby boss is like ten minutes long and it's the worst boss in the entire series and everything about DmC's art direction and writing just felt kind of repulsive to me in a way that i've never wanted from devil may cry ignoring anything about game journos or bizarre presentations, DmC is just a hugely unappealing game outside of having a pretty playable combat system. sure, mainline devil may cry doesn't have great plots, but also, they don't pretend they do??? dmc1 maybe but dmc1 is hideki kamiya in his cheesy hollywood movie phase, dmc3 and 4 are goofy as hell. every instance where DmC tries to be funny comes off weirdly mean-spirited or just gross The Colonel fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 17:54
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It's also hilarious that Vergil shooting an unborn baby is the moment he "goes too far" in Dante's eyes but completely overlooks the fact that he had already repeatedly hacked at it with a sword and also possibly shot it himself.
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Jun 24, 2018 20:11
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The Colonel posted:i hate DmC because the giant unborn demon baby boss is like ten minutes long and it's the worst boss in the entire series and everything about DmC's art direction and writing just felt kind of repulsive to me in a way that i've never wanted from devil may cry There is one part of DmC that I love and it's an art direction thing, late in the game your a executing your plan and for a short while the world is just a blueprint/attack plan and I found that really cool. Also I agree that most of the time it's attempts to be cool just fail into being really mean whereas when the original series failed to be cool it just became goofy, which is a lot better IMO.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:08
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Renoistic posted:But I still rank DMC3 the highest, followed by 4. 4 would be higher if you didn't fight like every boss twice. Three times actually. One with Nero, another with Dante and then you fight them again at the end during the dice platform thing  a cartoon duck posted:DMC4 Dante was the best Dante because he was the gayest and cowboyest in that one, it's not rocket science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6UaPnRYcc
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Jun 24, 2018 22:02
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I love that cutscene. 
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Jun 24, 2018 22:04
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I was writing an effort post but it's not worth it. Anyway, DmC is not that bad*, it's incredibly unlikely that journos were paid by Capcom, and it's more likely that their opinions of the fanbase were colored by the initial backlash to the first teaser trailer and having seen promising new directions for other gaming series sort of taken down by conservative and vocal fan backlash. Ya I doubt that was the case. I don't follow game journalists other than maybe Giantbomb who are super transparent and was basically created because one of the founders refused to give a good review to Kane n Lynch a game that was paying Gamespot for promotion/etc. I remember when DmC came out everyone in their team loved it despite not being fans of the original series. I already did a longer post in this thread on how Ninja Theory games are like the oscar bait of videogames. Their games will always get good reviews because the cinematic/linear/casual combat/0 replay value or difficulty is perfect for REVIEWERS and game journalists.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:05
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Hel posted:There is one part of DmC that I love and it's an art direction thing, late in the game your a executing your plan and for a short while the world is just a blueprint/attack plan and I found that really cool. An issue I take with the art direction is that there isn't really enough of that. There's far too many "stick on a colour filter, crank up the bloom and saturation. Done" levels. For example, they had a team of talented street artists. Aside from...one time(?) Dante pulls out some 2D stair-like graffiti to make 3D actual stairs, they don't do anything with it, other than just texture work. Maybe they could have enemies spawn from graffiti, or some other way it could interact with him (traps, more platforms, whatever, doors, you get the idea). Or a level where everything looks like street art. Okami-esque or something. The most visually striking levels are the nightclub and Fox news, and I know the later was drastically shortened - the little area of the Fox News ident that takes about 10 seconds to run past, was meant to have Dante jump into various tv channels themed after whatever; cooking shows, sports shows - before finally getting to Bob Barbas. And while the nightclub area does have its problems (the harsh colour contrasts and strobing lights make it difficult to see what the enemies are doing*) - I personally think it's the best, visually, because they had a clear idea what they were going for. *And thinking of it, for a similar reason, the only hard part of the Vergil fight is not seeing his summoned swords, because they're the same colour as the eye-searing bloom on the background. Jack Trades posted:I love that cutscene. This one is pretty great too
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 22:09
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When journalist said DmC's story was "good" I was like what the hell are you smoking. If DmC had any ANY of that cheese factor in that one scene like dmc4 (the one lin ked above me) maybe I would've liked it. Shindragon fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 22:30
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Crabtree posted:Maybe we all need to look at the one thing DmC marketed itself off after the initial reaction, a giant gently caress you to existing fans, expecting them to buy it anyway out of some sort of brand loyalty; and consider that this is what attracted so many journos to Ninja Theory's cause. Because Ninja Theory's Boss sure as poo poo made no small bones about mocking people for not liking the style of their game to the point of saying the older games were far too homosexual for real gamers (while he desperately re-functioned its color, graphics and Donte gabber just to make it more DEVIL MAY CRY LIKE). A vision that this game could let them bully an already typically cowed consumer base into further submission that you'll buy it anyway, while they prance about defenses of ARTISTIC VISION and THIS IS JUST HOW GAMES ARE MADE NOW, MAN CHILD. They hoped to be able to manipulate and profit off of an outrage they started between an imaginary consumer that couldn't care and real physical people that sure as poo poo didn't like them for any of DmC. It seems that's been more popular (but no more effective) as a marketing strategy recently, going around saying that the old product is garbage, and if you want it back you're racist, sexist, homophobic, a Trump voter, etc. Basically assuming it's the customer's moral duty to buy what you're selling rather than the more traditional arrangement of trying to make something the customer wants to buy. And that makes it much easier for critics to double down. They already get exposed to a lot of the worst aspects of the public from letters and comment sections, and as already mentioned, they tend to like things that play like Ninja Theory's DmC already. If they encounter or set up a narrative that their enthusiasm for the game isn't just correct, but a mark of moral superiority, it feels righteous to defend the game, and quite difficult to back away from earlier positions. Path of least resistance is to keep on with the same arguments. No need to bribe when you can get the same results for free.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:39
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Videogames are art.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:40
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It actually astounds me that Ninja Theory worked on Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice. A game which handles its subject matter extremely well and tastefully. Did they fire the idiots who thought Monkey kicking a slave to his death was badass in Enslaved and thought the entirety of DmC was "high art"? Because I remember my initial reaction upon hearing the premise of Hellblade once I heard Ninja Theory was developing it was "Oh...oh no no no. This is going to be really offensive and disrespectful to those who suffer psychosis yet the press will love it".
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Jun 24, 2018 23:15
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Antoniades is one of the company founders and, as far as I know, still works at Ninja Theory. EDIT: On second thought, I'm not 100% sure the man was responsible for the Monkey scene? But I remember him being very vocally involved in the PR and writing of the company's early games. Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 23:23
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Yeah, he still works there, and there's a marketing/investor pitch thing he did relatively recently floating around talking about sales numbers and design philosophies where he doubled down on the DmC design even more. But since they got MS'd, I guess they're walking down the green mile anyways.
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Jun 24, 2018 23:34
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And with that, 2018 is redeemed BANG BANG BANG Pull my devil trigger~*~*~ Billzasilver fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 25, 2018 |
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Jun 25, 2018 00:16
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Jun 25, 2018 00:59
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man I really wanna get the DMC HD collection for an actually playable DMC3 on my PC but it'd essentially be for one game. No interest in DMC2 and DCM1 isn't that interesting to me. Wish I could get JUST DMC3 because playing the blurry ps2 version is the pits.
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Jun 27, 2018 15:18
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I understand where you are coming from DMC1 is different from 3/4 which is the type of action the series is known for. But 1 is still a great game. It has a very different atmosphere you can tell it was a resident evil game with how much Gothic horror there is. 2 is not worth playing for any reason. I was introduced to dmc with 2 so I have a special place for it even though it is a horrible game.
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Jun 27, 2018 15:39
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If you're gonna play DMC1 at this point you might as well go all the way back to the original stylish action game and play some Rising Zan: Samurai Gunman.
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Jun 27, 2018 15:41
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Or Chaos Legion, apparently 5 has some elements from that game in it.
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Jun 27, 2018 15:43
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I'm revising DMC 1 and it's still decent even though it's clearly more resident evil than devil may cry. Also, how many Nightmares bosses are there cause i keep beating this pile of goo every two levels. honestly the main reason not to revisit dmc 1 is the dogshit camera Mans fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 27, 2018 |
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Jun 27, 2018 21:21
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