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jivjov posted:And neither did Luke. There was no "contemplation". A brief moment of blind panic that he doesn't act on isn't "contemplation" Splitting. Hairs.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:43
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Oh, Bob Iger is again supposed to rescue Star Wars from the forces of "evil" (this time those pesky progressives that RUIN EVERYTHING I AS WHITE MIDDLE AGED MANCHILD HOLD DEAR TO MY HEART!!!!!)? Like he was taking Star Wars away from EA. Or at least make sure there aren't any lootboxes in Battlefront 2. Yeah, that was great when he did that.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:45
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Milky Moor posted:I have never contemplated murdering a student because I got horror movie jump-scared. Do you have mind powers that can look into the future? Cuz that’s what Luke has.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:49
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CelticPredator posted:Do you have mind powers that can look into the future? Luke is not prescient. Luke was afraid. His supposed mind powers would not hold up in a court of law.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:51
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Milky Moor posted:Luke is not prescient. Luke was afraid. His supposed mind powers would not hold up in a court of law. Yes true. I forgot Star Wars wasn’t real for a second. My bad.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:52
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If he hadn’t awoken to uncle Luke standing over him with a weapon drawn like a crazed maniac planning to murder him perhaps Ben Solo wouldn’t have turned megaevil.
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Jun 28, 2018 06:16
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It was always gonna happen
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Jun 28, 2018 06:18
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Self-fulfilling prophecies are a trip, man.
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Jun 28, 2018 06:20
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Again, haven't seen the movie, but Luke getting startled and accidentally thumbing the switch on his lazer sword seems uh, a little farcical
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Jun 28, 2018 06:26
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Maybe you should actually see something before commenting on it
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Jun 28, 2018 06:50
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So that IS what happens?
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Jun 28, 2018 06:54
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Galaxy brain: Luke was a lovely character in TLJ for sure, and a lunatic murderer to boot, but he was kind of a lovely character and a murder lunatic to begin with. Mark Hamill carried the poo poo out of that lean rear end role in the OT, and even then it was only to mixed success, particularly in return of the jedi where he comes off as a huge weirdo constantly
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Jun 28, 2018 07:00
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CelticPredator posted:It was always gonna happen So he should have killed him in his sleep? Maxwell Lord posted:Maybe you should actually see something before commenting on it He is exactly right about what happens though.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:21
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Maybe TFA should've been set during Ren's schooling so we could actually see how Luke becomes scared of the dark side, instead of being told in a 3 second blurb.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:32
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The Last Jedi had its work cut out for it trying to fill in the gaps it inherited from The Force Awakens' lack of clarity in its context and stakes.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:34
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It was always gonna happen, it was a moment of panic, he was just contemplating it, etc. etc. Brainstorming rationalizations for botched murder attempt itt
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Jun 28, 2018 07:35
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Harime Nui posted:So that IS what happens? Here is what the film explicitly shows, that we assume to be the whole truth and when we are not bringing in aspects like books or whatnot that say other stuff like "Snoke was loving with Ben's head from a very young age." 1) Luke said he could sense 'it' building in Ben every now and then during his training. We are to assume he means the darkness. We see this worried him, so he went into Ben's room when he was sleeping to take another look. 2) Luke took a glimpse again and saw said great potential darkness, even worse than he thought, that Snoke had 'already turned his heart' and the possibility of immense death and pain caused by Ben. 3) Luke ignites his lightsaber and says he wanted to kill Ben, 'for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it." 4) Luke then says that urge passed within another moment "and I was left with shame." 5) Luke looks at his lightsaber and then realizes Ben has woken up. 6) Ben sees Luke standing over him with an ignited lightsaber and quite justifiably panics and grabs his own via the Force. Luke says "And all I saw were the frightened eyes of a boy whose master had failed him." 7) Ben swings at Luke, clearly assuming a blow is coming. Luke, who still has the lightsaber out, blocks it. We can see by Ren's own flashback that his memory has been corrupted to remember it as Luke explicitly swinging at him, rather than just sort of holding the lightsaber out in front of him. 8) Luke tries to cry out and stop what he accidentally set in motion, but Ben, still in a panic, uses the Force to pull the building down on Luke/himself. When Luke dug himself out, his temple was burning down, and his students were either dead or left with Ben, now Kylo Ren. We still don't know the exact precise circumstances of what happened there and if later films are going to fiddle around with assumed events (ie: Snoke came and burned down the temple and killed the students). As we've seen from the past two pages, there seems to be a lot of ways to read this scene.
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Jun 28, 2018 07:35
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Harime Nui posted:So that IS what happens? No watch the movie
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Jun 28, 2018 07:39
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Ultimately the new canon is that Luke was already going mad with power by return of the jedi. We see the beginning of a downward spiral that would lead to attempted murder on the sleeping Ben for thoughtcrimes. What I'm trying to say is that those pigmen at jabba's palace were just doing their jobs, they didn't deserve to be choked (to death???)
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Jun 28, 2018 07:43
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ya’ll forgot that Luke was about to kill Vader in anger in ROTJ and then stopped when he saw Vader’s missing arm, and realized he was becoming like him. And then stopped. It was almost like A moment Of Weakness
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Jun 28, 2018 07:46
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He became like vader anyway though, insofar as his actions led to the collapse of a democracy, the deaths of millions on several exploded planets, and another massacre of children at the jedi temple. But I guess he did hesitate and feel really bad about it after edit: I mean, he didn't feel bad enough about it to try to help anyone for several years, or get off his rear end, ever; but still, he really felt bad No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 07:55
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I suppose this will be an old chestnut argument in threads of the future.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:01
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Lampsacus posted:I suppose this will be an old chestnut argument in threads of the future. Yeah. It’s a pointless cycle. Like Star Wars!
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Jun 28, 2018 08:21
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CelticPredator posted:ya’ll forgot that Luke was about to kill Vader in anger in ROTJ and then stopped when he saw Vader’s missing arm, and realized he was becoming like him. And then stopped. Hmm. I don't think Luke pulling back from killing Vader is a moment of weakness.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:31
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No Mods No Masters posted:He became like vader anyway though, insofar as his actions led to the collapse of a democracy, the deaths of millions on several exploded planets, and another massacre of children at the jedi temple. But I guess he did hesitate and feel really bad about it after Luke was a true Jedi after all.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:46
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Milky Moor posted:What even is 'the darkness' in Ben, anyway? This is why on one hand I like Johnson killing Snoke off, because gently caress that paper-thin excuse for an emperor wannabe, maybe doing that was a bad idea if he was the direct cause of Luke Skywalker's greatest failure? He is simultaneously an idiot who gets ganked by his student mid-film, and also capable of doing what even Palpatine failed at, e.g. causing Luke to gently caress up bad. I have no problem with Luke loving up like this, it's just they give no explanation of how he went from the dude in RotJ who redeemed his dad to this guy who would consider murdering his nephew. I'm fine with that journey, but we need more than "I had some visions and this dude Snoke was around, so, you know..." We actually needed to see the problems with Ben and what brought Luke to that place. And no, I don't care that this sounds too similar to the prequels. If Snoke is that important, make him an actual character, don't just throw him away because who gives a gently caress about that loser? Or don't make him the cause of the darkness in Ben. Put simply, we are told why Luke is in exile (he hosed up), but the actual explanation should be about why he hosed up. One line of dialogue in a subjective flashback doesn't cut it.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:48
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Milky Moor posted:Hmm. I don't think Luke pulling back from killing Vader is a moment of weakness. Maybe watch ROTJ again.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:49
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CelticPredator posted:Maybe watch ROTJ again. ???????????
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Jun 28, 2018 08:52
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I find it a bit galling that Luke goes into "exile" at all. You can always tell a true champion of democracy and the rule of law by how he goes off the grid and becomes a fugitive instead of facing trial for a probable crime. Truly, an inspirational hero for the next generation of the resistance
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Jun 28, 2018 08:54
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I suppose the idea is that Luke went right up to the line in his fight with Vader and looked across it, but stepped back when he realised he'd made a mistake.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:54
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garycoleisgod posted:This is why on one hand I like Johnson killing Snoke off, because gently caress that paper-thin excuse for an emperor wannabe, maybe doing that was a bad idea if he was the direct cause of Luke Skywalker's greatest failure? Luke forgiving his dad didn't grant him super dad powers that need to be explained away for him to be his own lovely dad.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:54
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No Mods No Masters posted:I find it a bit galling that Luke goes into "exile" at all. You can always tell a true champion of democracy and the rule of law by how he goes off the grid and becomes a fugitive instead of facing trial for a probable crime. Truly, an inspirational hero for the next generation of the resistance He even seems to believe, himself, that it was a crime and he was guilty; as his own judge jury and executioner, he simply decided his punishment should be feeling really bad and drinking titty milk
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Jun 28, 2018 08:57
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If you weigh them up and try to get them to balance, Luke probably had about as much basis for assuming Vader still had good in him as he did for thinking Ben was definitely going to turn evil.
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Jun 28, 2018 09:04
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He never faced Ben's parents or confessed to his role in events to them.
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Jun 28, 2018 09:05
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luke loves to kill dudes. killing people makes him horny. its not a big deal
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Jun 28, 2018 09:09
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I'm starting to think this sequel trilogy might not have been well thought out
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Jun 28, 2018 09:09
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josh04 posted:Luke forgiving his dad didn't grant him super dad powers that need to be explained away for him to be his own lovely dad. A character makes a decision that turns out to be 100% correct. Like 20 years later he considers, however fleetingly, choosing differently when faced with a similar situation. I'm cool with this, but I do need to see the journey between those two points in time. Saying "people change" doesn't cut it because this is a story and character change in stories is the interesting/dramatic bit, not the bit that should be skipped because we need that screen time for prank calls in space or space horses.
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Jun 28, 2018 09:21
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The two things just aren't all that similar, unless you think Luke is Batman and refusing to kill Vader was his code of honour.
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Jun 28, 2018 09:24
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Freakazoid_ posted:Maybe TFA should've been set during Ren's schooling so we could actually see how Luke becomes scared of the dark side, instead of being told in a 3 second blurb. I find it baffling when people say we don't know Ren's motivation incidentally, it's like the one thing TFA clearly established through his characterisation (and TLJ backs it up). He's a weak and insecure man who was offered validation and power by the First Order.
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Jun 28, 2018 09:29
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josh04 posted:The two things just aren't all that similar, unless you think Luke is Batman and refusing to kill Vader was his code of honour. They are not 100% the same, but surely you can see some similarities? Remember that Luke stopped fighting Vader, only to attack again when Vader threatened to turn Leia. His stated reason for the Ben thing was to prevent future horrors? Zero similarities?
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Jun 28, 2018 09:32
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