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mossyfisk posted:Also worth noting that the Wizard's robe is not red in that picture. Also note that Moraziel is supposed to be the end point of our quest (as far as we know currently), but the lady just says that the wizard in ice will speed us on our quest. As for the puzzle, I got the same result as the others - I don't think it's solvable unambiguously without knowing the treasure and name of the ice dragon or using out of puzzle clues. But the game lets you find out the treasure so you only have two things to brute force. Good thing you have access to the mighty power of save!
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Jun 28, 2018 07:20
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My notes for this are a giant unreadable mess, but my final result was Alain = Peaks = Electrum Balparaise/Carnage = Fire = Rubies Carnage/Balparaise = Ice = Diamonds Demout = Forest = Gold Ebert = Plains = Silver With it being impossible to solve 100% even with the extra hint. Not like it matters, since Ice knows his own drat name so whether he's B or C should be immaterial at that point. 
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Jun 28, 2018 07:50
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I eventually got to the same answer as Straight White Shark, though I won't say how long it took me. This puzzle is bad, but also makes more sense narratively than the similar (albeit less complicated) ones we've seen before. Dragons are immortal and don't have much else to do, of course they develop ridiculously complex riddles, and of course they're assholes about it. Far more plausible than humans who ought to be too busy for this sort of nonsense.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:05
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I am basically getting to the same point as Dragonatrix and Straight White Shark, but if I were the one trying to play this game and wasn't allowed to make the ice dragon figure out his own damned name, I would make one more assumption that isn't exactly spelled out. I would assume that since the ice dragon doesn't know any of the true names to begin with, he's probably not a family man. I guess it could be one of those fantasy bullshit True Name things that nobody but the dragon itself knows, but I'm working on the assumption that the parent dragons would give their child their True Name. That means he's not Alain, Carange, or Demout. Since everything else leads to him being either Balparaise or Carange, that leaves him as Balparaise and my answer as: Ice - Balparaise - Diamonds Fire - Carange - Rubies Plains - Ebert - Silver Peaks - Alain - Electrum Forest - Demout - Gold Alternately: if he was part of the family that likes each other he wouldn't be plotting against them. Either way, it's an assumption that the game doesn't directly spell out. Yakumo fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 08:14
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I was kind of expecting this to be a puzzle where you have to use the fact that the Ice dragon could solve it to get past a point where you can't; narrow down Ice to two names and then find that only one choice then gives you enough information to solve the rest of the puzzle, for example. Unfortunately this doesn't work, as even if you don't assume that clue 1 refers to three different dragons, you can narrow Ice and Fire to the same two names and two hoards, and at that point nothing about the Ice dragon can affect any other point of the puzzle. So here are the possibilities I can think of: 1) The puzzle was intended to be completely solvable, but not enough clues were actually provided; 2) The puzzle was intended to only be solvable using the fact that the Ice dragon could solve it, but too many clues were provided; 3) There's some extra fact about the Ice or Fire dragon's name/familial status/willingness to meet with other dragons in this or another PoP (I guess the dragons we've met until now are all from the other hemisphere, though?); or 4) There's some trick about the way you answer that means you don't need to distinguish between Ice and Fire - either you can say you don't know certain facts and that's accepted, or you can try one answer, be told it's wrong and then (since you now know the right answer) use the Ice dragon's true name to gain power over him. The whole Ice dragon not having a family thing would be 3, but a pretty tenuous "fact". I'm guessing from Nakar's attitude that 4 isn't the case, unfortunately, so it's looking like a mistake was made.
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Jun 28, 2018 08:20
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Level Three: An Ice Wizard In which we are doggedly hunted by that stupid dragon's puzzle, but manage to resolve this branch of the maze all the same. Yeah, so as it turns out, we didn't need to kill the Dream Serpent at all, because Tsoriss is a bullshitter.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:05
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Well at least we know what happened to Persephone I guess
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Jun 28, 2018 16:56
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And Air continues to be the right choice for the Talisman. (Or at least the one that won't get us horribly murdered.)
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Jun 28, 2018 17:10
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Jagged Jim posted:And Air continues to be the right choice for the Talisman. (Or at least the one that won't get us horribly murdered.) We’re gonna be really embarrassed when it’s eventually revealed that Chugotai just means “air”. Why lie to the wizard about the dragons name, by the way? I’m sure it doesn’t affect anything but the wizard was helpful and the dragon was kind of a dick.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:00
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In the other logic puzzles the devs had the character talk through the solution. I was looking forward to that here to explain how the devs thought you were supposed to solve that puzzles. What a copout.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:04
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Added Space posted:In the other logic puzzles the devs had the character talk through the solution. I was looking forward to that here to explain how the devs thought you were supposed to solve that puzzles. What a copout. I think you were supposed to solve that puzzle by being the ice dragon and already knowing your own name and treasure. On the one hand that’s a rude thing to do to a player. On the other hand it’s not a huge time cost due to the save system and it makes a lot of sense in story. If you didn’t have trivial save anywhere then it’d be really stupid. On the third hand I think it’d be a really easy puzzle if you started out with the ice dragon’s knowledge, especially since even if they don’t know their kid’s true name or treasure they’d at least know where they live. Maybe dragons are kind of dumb.
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Jun 28, 2018 23:14
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Zandar posted:I was kind of expecting this to be a puzzle where you have to use the fact that the Ice dragon could solve it to get past a point where you can't; narrow down Ice to two names and then find that only one choice then gives you enough information to solve the rest of the puzzle, for example. Unfortunately this doesn't work, as even if you don't assume that clue 1 refers to three different dragons, you can narrow Ice and Fire to the same two names and two hoards, and at that point nothing about the Ice dragon can affect any other point of the puzzle. So here are the possibilities I can think of: Thinking about it: does including Balparaise in the hate trio actually help move you towards the solution at all? All it tells you is that Balparaise is not Carange, which is not something you needed a hint for. If they had ID'd Balparaise by hoard or location you would have been able to solve the whole riddle. I suspect they had the solution mapped out and slotted in the wrong hint for B/rubies/fire.
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Jun 28, 2018 23:53
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If hiding your true name is so important, why did he even tell us all 5 names?
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Jun 29, 2018 08:16
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Tamba posted:If hiding your true name is so important, why did he even tell us all 5 names? Because shut up don't question it you aren't meant to think about it, that's why.[/smartass]
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Jun 29, 2018 08:27
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Zandar posted:I was kind of expecting this to be a puzzle where you have to use the fact that the Ice dragon could solve it to get past a point where you can't; narrow down Ice to two names and then find that only one choice then gives you enough information to solve the rest of the puzzle, for example. Unfortunately this doesn't work, as even if you don't assume that clue 1 refers to three different dragons, you can narrow Ice and Fire to the same two names and two hoards, and at that point nothing about the Ice dragon can affect any other point of the puzzle. So here are the possibilities I can think of: I feel like there's *nearly* enough clues to get something out of the ages of the dragons, but it runs into the same problem.
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Jun 29, 2018 12:54
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MaskedHuzzah posted:I feel like there's *nearly* enough clues to get something out of the ages of the dragons, but it runs into the same problem. I actually took the approach of finding the partial solution just by age ordering (e.g. forest dragon must be #3 since younger than ice and fire and older than child and silver). It doesn't come to any closer solution (Age order is C/B,D,A,E incidentally). Given the whole thing about true names giving power I really expected them to ask for the first three, and then have the dragon realize that the puzzle is solved and thank you. And if you asked his name he'd say he deliberately doesn't want you to know. It seems such an obvious direction to take that puzzle.
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Jun 29, 2018 14:58
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Something about the ages did make me think I'd figured out which was which but I couldn't connect why. I guess you could stretch his desire to know/meet other dragons as him not being Belparaise because of 5 but that's a really big leap in logic...
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Jun 29, 2018 15:44
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Level Three: Old Friends Return (Bearing Puzzles) In which we contemplate mortality, then meet a familiar face. Kangra posted:Given the whole thing about true names giving power I really expected them to ask for the first three, and then have the dragon realize that the puzzle is solved and thank you. And if you asked his name he'd say he deliberately doesn't want you to know. It seems such an obvious direction to take that puzzle.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:04
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It does not actually seem to be necessary to figure everything out, although once you arrive at the answer it's trivial to finish out the grid. And probably a good idea--submitting a partial answer may be a trap in that you might not know if your answer contains a contradiction that you haven't gotten to yet. Those who wield swords are a different group than Saurians or Orcs. Elves could not wield swords; they wielded bows. Insectidae could not wield swords. Therefore, humans wielded swords. Humans did not ride bears, so they do not worship the Lady. Humans did not wield clubs, so they do not worship Death. Humans did not wield spears, so they didn't worship the First Cause. Humans did not worship the Mad One. Therefore humans worshipped the Hunter. Orcs are different from those who rode warfrogs or those who rode bears. Orcs rode neither zebras nor pterodactyls. Therefore orcs rode wolves. Humans (those who wield swords) were not those who rode warfrogs or those who rode bears. Humans did not wield shuriken, so they could not ride pterodactyls. Wolves are already claimed. Therefore humans rode zebras. Halfway there! (Human - Zebra - Sword - Hunter.) Saurians were not those who rode warfrogs or those who rode bears. Humans and orcs have claimed mounts beside warfrog and bear. Therefore elves/insectidae both rode either warfrog/bear. Wolves and zebras are already claimed. Therefore saurians rode pterodactyls, which means they wield shuriken. Insectidae did not worship Death, so they cannot wield clubs. Bow/sword/shuriken are all claimed. Therefore insectidae wielded spears, which means they worship the First Cause. Insectidae do not worship the Lady, so they did not ride bears. That means they rode warfrogs. That gives us the other half of the answer (Insect - Warfrog - Spear - First Cause.)
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Jun 29, 2018 16:46
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Okay, the writing in that section was pretty funny.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:58
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I love how even the PC is getting sick of this riddle bullshit at this point.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:19
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I did not take notes on how I solved it, but I used that puzzle grid solver and Straight White Shark's first paragraph as a hint that I could make more disassociations using the first rule of the puzzle. After that was just the matter of following the rules, and not forgetting to fill out the logical conclusions.  I arrived at the same conclusion as Straight White Shark, so I think this was my first successfully solved puzzle in this thread. 
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Jun 29, 2018 18:08
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I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but the Questing Beast was from Authurian legend. It would randomly crash Arthur's parties, 3 to 5 knights would pledge to chase after it, and they would get wrapped up in some kind of knightly adventure. They were never able to actually catch the darn thing.
Added Space fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 19:02
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For once, I don't have awful notes because I actually bothered to use a grid due to, well, there being a bunch of categories to keep track of. Once I got about halfway through, I stopped using it in full though since there was an easy and obvious domino effect for who does what via process of elimination to get to that point. In the order I was able to figure things out: Elves ride Bears, wield Bows and worship The Lady Humans ride Zebras, wield Swords and worship The Hunter Saurians ride Pterodactyls, wield Shuriken and worship The Mad One Insectidae ride Warfrogs, wield Spears and worship The First Cause (leaves Orcs with Wolves, Clubs and Death) Weren't asked for the other 3, but they ended up happening as a matter of course.
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Jun 29, 2018 21:20
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Added Space posted:I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but the Questing Beast was from Authurian legend. It would randomly crash Arthur's parties, 3 to 5 knights would pledge to chase after it, and they would get wrapped up in some kind of knightly adventure. They were never able to actually catch the darn thing. It was also probably a giraffe.
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Jun 29, 2018 21:42
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We've now reached the Captain Carrot Inflection Point. Predators leap out of the foliage and greet us with "I'm sorry, I thought you were someone else."
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Jun 30, 2018 03:51
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ManxomeBromide posted:We've now reached the Captain Carrot Inflection Point. Predators leap out of the foliage and greet us with "I'm sorry, I thought you were someone else." Does the Sword of Valterre go ting?
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Jun 30, 2018 05:20
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Like before, we are limited to only to just two candidate solutions because there are only two possible ways to fit the Spears + First cause and Clubs + Death constraint in a grid. The incorrect solution will lead to Insects paired with Death which is not allowed, leaving the only correct solution: 1. Saurians -> Pterodactyl -> Shuriken -> Mad One 2. Insectoids -> Warfrogs -> Spears -> First Cause 3. Humans -> Zebras -> Swords -> Hunter 4. Elves -> Bears -> Bows -> Lady 5. Orcs -> Wolves -> Clubs -> Death
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Jun 30, 2018 06:04
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Again, just the fact that we went from terrified peasant with a rusty knife, to badass warrior with a legendary artifact sword, giving us A) the option to just gut some enemies and B) some respect, is a really cool bit of writing that a lot of other games miss.
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Jun 30, 2018 08:07
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PurpleXVI posted:Again, just the fact that we went from terrified peasant with a rusty knife, to badass warrior with a legendary artifact sword, giving us A) the option to just gut some enemies and B) some respect, is a really cool bit of writing that a lot of other games miss. Seriously, given way too many games have bandits that give one look at your heavily armored party that's almost impossible to see due all the particle effects of your magical doodads and still think they have a chance. It's nice when a game acknowledges you have become a badass or let you go 'Hey, I can loving kill you without even drawing my weapon, back off'
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Jun 30, 2018 15:56
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Level Three: One Dumb Lizard, One Dumber Knight In which we master the intricate dance necessary to command a beast with a brain the size of a walnut.
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Jun 30, 2018 18:03
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Does the Talisman do nothing when you're at the holy man?
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Jun 30, 2018 19:31
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Zereth posted:Does the Talisman do nothing when you're at the holy man?
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Jun 30, 2018 19:45
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I would have figured that the talisman and Mind would've worked with the holy man, but I suppose not. I also like that the player character and the Questing Beast acknowledge that some of the Mad One's obstacles are ridiculous.
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Jul 1, 2018 10:22
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Level Three: A Dapper Proposition In which -- finally -- we meet a denizen of culture and refinement, and assist him in a profitable business venture. Oh, and then we bump into Matilda again. The dial puzzle doesn't work super well as an update-ender, so I just put it in there for fun. We'll consider the current "puzzle" how we could kill Matilda, if we chose to.
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Jul 1, 2018 15:53
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Given that the second half of the dial puzzle can completely undo the first half, I was banking on RIPE being the final answer.
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Jul 1, 2018 16:12
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Mad Jaqk posted:Given that the second half of the dial puzzle can completely undo the first half, I was banking on RIPE being the final answer. The lizardman did specify that he needed to derive a third word. Clever monkeys that are too clever get incinerated.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:50
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While "tine" is a word, it's unsual enough that it feels unfair, compared to "ripe".Also the first word is "SHOD", not SHOP.
Domus fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jul 1, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 19:39
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I'd like to Mind/Spirit the hut before confronting her! Wonder if it's sentient?
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Jul 1, 2018 20:30
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I'm guessing if you want to kill her you have to wait until you're in the pot and then whip out the talisman while her back is turned.
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Jul 1, 2018 21:09
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