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It was a dice roll before that too.
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Jun 27, 2018 23:55
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Good Will Hrunting if you're interested in a C# hedge fund PM me a resume (or just a PM to see if you might be interested in us). I'm not a hiring manager or recruiter or anything but we have some open reqs and I can submit you. I like my job a lot.
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Jun 28, 2018 00:07
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Not yet, they are on my list somewhere though. Should I avoid? Tossing some other names out: Last time I hit Betterment, Mark43, Spring, and Rent the Runway. This time I've got... Oscar, Stash, Capsule, Curalate, and a bunch of other smaller ones remaining still.
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Jun 28, 2018 00:21
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Good Will Hrunting posted:So my career progress is reduced to a dice roll because of two jobs where I learned some poo poo but apparently not enough to reach the god engineer tier or having free employment will? Basically.  But as said, its a numbers game. If you keep it up and you really do show interest in helping out and learning, it *should* just be a matter of time before you reach career nirvana.
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Jun 28, 2018 00:41
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Not yet, they are on my list somewhere though. Should I avoid? Tossing some other names out: Last time I hit Betterment, Mark43, Spring, and Rent the Runway. This time I've got... Oscar, Stash, Capsule, Curalate, and a bunch of other smaller ones remaining still. My last NYC job search sounds as miserable as yours, I spent a lot of time talking with recruiters who all worked with 4 or 5 startups that seem to be perpetually hiring. My search also included Compass (convoluted DP programming problem then telling me their day consisted of formatting data to store in Mongo) and ClassPass (crazy python tech debt and aggressive CTO interview) and I skipped out on the RentTheRunway onsite after getting another offer. If you're interested in any
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Jun 28, 2018 01:31
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Got rejected from Amazon. I really have no idea what level of completeness and correctness these companies expect but these questions are certainly not just to "see how you think and solve a problem" in my experience because I've been rejected multiple times now from places where I was told I came up with an acceptable solution. And I've frequently verified my solutions afterwards and sure, maybe I don't write the most neatly organized perfect code in a loving interview on a text editor, but it seems ludicrous at this point to be told "yeah that's the solution we were looking for" on multiple occasions only to be rejected. gently caress it, gonna start screenshotting my code and posting it here to get some actual feedback afterwards. Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 04:17
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Maybe record yourself walking through something on leetcode like it was an interview? And watch it back? Or post it here? At this point, it's probably not technical skills losing you jobs, so you might want to review and pay attention to how you come off in your recordings. I interview a bunch for work, (we don't do algorithm questions, our equivalent is an hour long pairing exercise) -- I'd like to get better at conducting these interviews, and so if you want I'd be happy to take some time to work through one of those with you and I'll give you some honest feedback. Just hit me up via PM.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:00
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2nd Rate Poster posted:Maybe record yourself walking through something on leetcode like it was an interview? And watch it back? Or post it here? At this point, it's probably not technical skills losing you jobs, so you might want to review and pay attention to how you come off in your recordings. I just got a webcam because I'm going to become a camguy if I fail another 10 interviews or so. This sounds like a really good plan after I decompress from the next set I've got in the pipeline and I think I may fire it up and put it on Twitch. I'll definitely PM you in a few days as well. raminasi posted:Good Will Hrunting if you're interested in a C# hedge fund PM me a resume (or just a PM to see if you might be interested in us). I'm not a hiring manager or recruiter or anything but we have some open reqs and I can submit you. I like my job a lot. I'm definitely interested in discussing this as well. I'll PM you a few days down the road after I clear up the 2 outstanding interviews and the 2 I have tomorrow and Friday.
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Jun 28, 2018 05:06
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Do you have any open source code published that would be representative of the "poorly structured" code these interviewers seem to be rejecting?
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Jun 28, 2018 12:22
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No, I haven't contributed to anything open source. I pretty much went to work right from finishing school. The thing about Amazon though is that I did 2 hours of a takehome that I "passed" that was representative of my ability to write actual code, not a stupid 1-hour power-hour of three questions in a row I felt needed to be handled as quickly as possible so I could move to the next.
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Jun 28, 2018 13:49
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That’s always annoyed me when places ask for code samples or open source contribution and it’s like, sorry for having a job continuously since school? Do you want some one line changes in weird RTOSs that happened to be open source?
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Jun 28, 2018 13:56
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Phobeste posted:That’s always annoyed me when places ask for code samples or open source contribution and it’s like, sorry for having a job continuously since school? Do you want some one line changes in weird RTOSs that happened to be open source? I have a handful of forks with changes I made to OSS in my work's repo but those are private and I'd rather not risk the lawsuit.  Also the code I was editing is so bad (looking at you LinkedIn!).
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Jun 28, 2018 13:59
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I have a handful of forks with changes I made to OSS in my work's repo but those are private and I'd rather not risk the lawsuit. If you modified GPL code, especially GPL3 code, the company legally must open source your modifications.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:03
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ratbert90 posted:If you modified GPL code, especially GPL3 code, the company legally must open source your modifications. Only if you release the product, right? If it's purely for internal use there's no release required. The GPL FAQ posted:Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public? raminasi fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 14:13
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raminasi posted:Only if you release the product, right? If it's purely for internal use there's no release required. Yeah, essentially the idea is your end user has to be able to rebuild/modify the source. If your company is the only end user, then you don't have to publish it. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#InternalDistribution
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Jun 28, 2018 14:17
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kitten smoothie posted:Yeah, essentially the idea is your end user has to be able to rebuild/modify the source. Yeah, sorry, I have been releasing products for the public for so long I forget about internal use.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:23
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It's a job scheduler we use internally. Also just bombed the easiest tech question. Like completely bombed. My brain was just not working at all and I couldn't do something I've solved multiple times. Burnout is real.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:53
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's a job scheduler we use internally. I forgot what an anagram was once and wasn't getting any help from the guy over the phone. I guess they were a Serious Anagram Detector Company.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:40
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Got rejected from Amazon. I really have no idea what level of completeness and correctness these companies expect but these questions are certainly not just to "see how you think and solve a problem" in my experience because I've been rejected multiple times now from places where I was told I came up with an acceptable solution. And I've frequently verified my solutions afterwards and sure, maybe I don't write the most neatly organized perfect code in a loving interview on a text editor, but it seems ludicrous at this point to be told "yeah that's the solution we were looking for" on multiple occasions only to be rejected. Amazon interview feedback is done with respect to how the candidate fit one or two leadership principles. This includes the tech interviews. You might have failed to demonstrate "Have Backbone; Disagree and Commit" in your fizzbuzz solution.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:41
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Sign posted:How are you doing this so it isn't terrible? Work with recruitment and engineering leads to create a process you actually like. Move the hell away from algorithm whiteboarding. Focus on actually providing a good candidate experience. Make sure you have clearly laid out scorecards for each rec that layout outcomes as well as qualifications for the candidates. Make sure your hiring team knows which areas to focus on for their respective interviews. Know that hiring is the most important thing you can be doing, particularly as an engineering leader.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:49
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NovemberMike posted:Amazon interview feedback is done with respect to how the candidate fit one or two leadership principles. This includes the tech interviews. You might have failed to demonstrate "Have Backbone; Disagree and Commit" in your fizzbuzz solution. What does that mean with respect to the interview itself? The interviewer tells you to do something stupid and they expect you to catch that and disagree and argue? Or ... what?
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Jun 28, 2018 15:49
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https://amazon.jobs/principlesquote:Earn Trust uhhh
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Jun 28, 2018 15:54
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I forgot what an anagram was once and wasn't getting any help from the guy over the phone. I guess they were a Serious Anagram Detector Company. This was just keeping an extra array index of a previous value already found to recalc a value later and my brain just could not function. Doesn't help that I stayed up until 1 playing Overwatch because I was depressed about another rejection. I desperately need a break from this, good thing is it feels like my TL is checked out as well so work is just a few hours a day. I brought this up to my roommate last night. He's a finance/accounting dude that worked at Comey's ex fund and is very "business"-y. Even he thought this (and the others) were approaching scary levels of cult and they have a loving office in the middle of the woods in Connecticut.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:55
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Again, Amazon is a cult and a monopoly, and it and Bezos should be treated accordingly. 
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Jun 28, 2018 16:07
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I brought this up to my roommate last night. He's a finance/accounting dude that worked at Comey's ex fund and is very "business"-y. Even he thought this (and the others) were approaching scary levels of cult and they have a loving office in the middle of the woods in Connecticut. Bridgewater? Is that the real cult-y one? I mainly thought that was a really weird phrase to make it out of what I assume was at least one round of legal and HR review. My main worry would be that it sounds like they're trying to encourage you to take initiative and get stuff done even if it doesn't work, which isn't bad unless they've failed to defeat the tendency of people to judge mistakes more harshly than successes are judged positively.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:09
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Munkeymon posted:Bridgewater? Is that the real cult-y one? Yep, it's Bridgewater. My roommie told his boss before he started interviewing and his boss was cool with him taking a day off per week to interview for over a month. Place may be culty, but that's a cool as gently caress culture. Of course he had been there 3 years and they had established a relationship of trust, and he was accomplishing his work still and agreed to stay an extra bit to train a potential new hire or offload his work but that's still pretty awesome, imo.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:10
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Yep, it's Bridgewater. My roommie told his boss before he started interviewing and his boss was cool with him taking a day off per week to interview for over a month. Place may be culty, but that's a cool as gently caress culture. Of course he had been there 3 years and they had established a relationship of trust, and he was accomplishing his work still and agreed to stay an extra bit to train a potential new hire or offload his work but that's still pretty awesome, imo. Hey if you think the problem with your interviews now is that all the candidates for the position aren't in the same room, each trying to explain why they should be hired and the others are losers, then maybe Bridgewater is for you!
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Jun 28, 2018 16:24
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Yeah, they probably should have gone with either "like roses" or "poo poo don't stink," to avoid the gendered connotation of "perfume."
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Jun 28, 2018 16:25
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raminasi posted:Hey if you think the problem with your interviews now is that all the candidates for the position aren't in the same room, each trying to explain why they should be hired and the others are losers, then maybe Bridgewater is for you! Is this a real thing? That's like some CodeFights level poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:32
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How about the sentence before, where you're expected to host your own struggle session regularly?
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Jun 28, 2018 16:32
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Volguus posted:What does that mean with respect to the interview itself? The interviewer tells you to do something stupid and they expect you to catch that and disagree and argue? Or ... what? Most of the time the interviewer doesn't drink the cool-aid too hard, but that's how they have to give their feedback.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:44
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My interviewer seemed fine. The question was a variation of char count where I had to determine whether there was 1 of a certain letter, then 2 of another letter, then 3 of another and return true only if the sequence held true. (For example, 1 a, 2 b, 3 c, 4 d, no other characters). I approached it by counting the characters and storing them in a hash map, then going through the map's entry set and creating an array, using the value of <Key, Value> pair in the created map as an index and overwriting the initial "false" value to "true". Then at the end, I made sure there were no gaps in that array. The one thing I hosed up was I made the arrays of size string instead of size created map, and that threw my loop off the firs time I wrote my code. I didn't organize it with multiple functions or anything, I just tossed it all in 1 method. Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 16:51
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GWH, your frustration is understandable, let me tell you how my journey is into finding a new Senior Java developer who is somewhat familair with Spring Boot and at least has some understanding of the surrounding eco system. This person is to translate vague business requirements into technical direction and to coach me (a I work in a department with 14 teams, this is lead by a single Delivery Manager (DM, I prefer to think of him as a Dungeon Master) and I think we have a few product managers who delegate into a bunch of product owners. When we interview, it is just me and the DM, we have about one hour to find out if a person is a match either for us or another team. This is for contract positions only, sometimes the DM hires contractors into perm roles. I am a contractor myself as well and do not have the ambition to move into a perm role anyway. So I have been send a bundle of CV's, profiles, many are 5+ pages and ramble on and on about projects. I have 20 years of experience in the workforce and my CV is 2 pages, first one with recent experience and second with skills, education and some sort of list with project work for older experience. So any CV that is first a page with "This awesome guy was a dicksucker at corp Dick&Balls where he spearheaded the dicksucking initiative to transition all carpet munching into the latest dicksucking technology" is stupid to me. These days I just CMD-F for "Spring" and "Boot" to see where he used it last and scan for other familiair terms. Considering this is a pre-filtered list, I wonder how bad the garbage really is. I reject some because they are either not senior enough or did not work with the right technologies. Any canidate that meets "Spring Boot" one way or the other and has over 8 years of experience in a software development environment (not even as a dev), I will want to talk to. From the fact that you, Good Will Grunting, get invited for so many on calls, on-sites and whiteboarding, means to me you are confident and eperienced and you know how to write a CV and letter that are readable with all the relevant tech in demand. So now we had three interviews and I had to reject them all. Keep in mind that I did a grand total of 4 interviews on the hiring side of the table in my life, it is learning for me as well. The questions I ask are real problems we run into, technical debt or just hard problems we struggle with. My two personal favorites are: "We work with microservices. How would you go about ensuring that these services play well together when they are put in a test environment?" and "Currently many of our unit test suites are slow, like up to 60 seconds for a full run where my preference would be less than 5 seconds. If encountered, what would you do?" I tell the candidate that these are honest struggles we have and that I would like to know his opinion and approach, and to have a conversation instead of an interview. The first person claimed to be a java developer and mumbled a lot about vague general things. Only when I asked him about something more ops related, he sat up and started enthousiastically telling me about server setup. This told me he is not a developer at all but is trying to transition his career in that direction. Which is fine, but not what we are looking for and also not how he was trying to sell himself. The point: be upfront about what you want, who you are and where you want to go. If he said that he was very knowledgable in ops and only recently moved into java development, instead of painting himself as a senior java dev, he might actually receive an offer for a team. The second guy was great, was confident in his java knowledge and explaining his choices and solutions to the above problems. Could name the pro's and cons of the various paths and had been working with technology similar to our department's for a while. We explained we work with React and Spring Boot, he was knowledgable about Javascript and java backend. When asked what he would love to do, he answered that he would love to work with Angular and Spring (maybe Boot). He received an offer for the department in general, our team would not feed his goals. The third guy claimed to know Spring Boot but was not clear when he worked with it. He then went on to explain that it was almost the same anyway and could not elaborate on why he thought this, so it indicated to me he knows nothing of Boot. Not that it is so important, but please say: "I am not that knowledgable in Spring Boot, so I have to take a pass on this one." Also he kept on an on talking about things I never asked about and that weren't that relevant to the question either. Basically dodged the question and talked about something that he was familiair with, which is nice in different settings but painted him as someone that I cannot answer questions as it would take hours out of my day. He must be technically proficient, but not in the domain we work and he tried to cover that up instead of fessing up. So here we are, a bunch on interviews done and no body to relieve team pressure so we can work on the techdebt that is getting in our way of faster feature development. The point of this post is to tell Good Will Hrunting that it is often not you or your skills, but rather a lack of overlap in what you can do and what the other party is looking for. And I hope to make clear to you as well as to others interviewing, that the other side of the table often also has no clue and is just doing their best.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:27
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Well, just got rejected from my other onsite I had last week. Didn't think I could have done any better in those 4 interviews, to be honest. Not even sure where to go from here in terms of prep and review.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:46
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Well, just got rejected from my other onsite I had last week. Didn't think I could have done any better in those 4 interviews, to be honest. Not even sure where to go from here in terms of prep and review. Sorry man. Have you tried searching for remote jobs that aren't based in your area? My last three jobs have been fully remote with my team spread around the country. None of the interviews involved whiteboarding either, just high-level technical discussion. Try large banks, healthcare companies, insurance companies...unsexy places, basically.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:07
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Something else that may be working against you is simply that I'd guess 90+% of interviewees get rejected out of hand. I know at Google the policy is that if even one interviewer doesn't like you, then that's a no (but please try again in 6 months or a year). And interviewers will tend to err on the side of saying no if they're on the fence, because that means maintaining the status quo and that feels safe. So basically you have to wow absolutely everyone in order to pass.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:16
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Can you roughly reproduce your code here?
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Jun 28, 2018 20:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Something else that may be working against you is simply that I'd guess 90+% of interviewees get rejected out of hand. I know at Google the policy is that if even one interviewer doesn't like you, then that's a no (but please try again in 6 months or a year). And interviewers will tend to err on the side of saying no if they're on the fence, because that means maintaining the status quo and that feels safe. So basically you have to wow absolutely everyone in order to pass. In this case I was straight up told by the first two people that I was a yes and that they enjoyed talking to me. So it's one of two people: the weird guy who did the system design portion that I thought I nailed because he said "yeah I can't think of anything else we can improve either" or the weird girl who had literally no idea how to read the Java I was writing (lol).
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Jun 28, 2018 20:19
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apseudonym posted:Can you roughly reproduce your code here? Sure, I've got some of it written down and I'll do it tonight as close as I can get.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:19
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Keetron posted:Considering this is a pre-filtered list, I wonder how bad the garbage really is. I reject some because they are either not senior enough or did not work with the right technologies. Any canidate that meets "Spring Boot" one way or the other and has over 8 years of experience in a software development environment (not even as a dev), I will want to talk to. So this is exhibit A of why the interviewing process is so hosed up in software. "You have to have experience with technology X, version 1.2.3 otherwise you're not even invited to the interview". And you, Keetron, are not alone in this approach. Almost everyone does the same thing. So, what is one to do to get experience with technology X? Well, there are a few options:
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Jun 28, 2018 20:22
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