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The line I got the most traction with is, "Telling people with depression to suck it up and deal with just be happy is like telling someone with schizophrenia to stop hearing voices." Most people believe in schizophrenia and it's more convincing lumping depression into a more immediately visible mental illness. Of course my dad, early on in my depression, thought I was possessed by demons, so I dunno maybe he was right. For the "I don't believe in depression," folks, "Depression doesn't care if you believe in it," either works to jar them into a more accepting state of mind or lets them know to shut the hell up about it rather than try to argue. When my dad died, I was the most profoundly sad I've been in my life (he turned into a better man after that whole "You're depressed because of DEMONS," bit). I wasn't depressed, though, because I was already on meds for that. Depression and sadness are entirely different things. I don't get sad when an episode hits or I backslide into my old, pre-meds baseline. Lethargic, annoyed, having a sense of physical weight like my bones turned to metal, cynical, pessimistic, a weird touch of feeling betrayed for some reason, all while those obtrusive thoughts of failure and suicide, sure. Sad, though, nah. That's why it pisses me off when people misuse depressed when they mean sad, and vice versa.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:43
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OutOfPrint posted:Of course my dad, early on in my depression, thought I was possessed by demons, so I dunno maybe he was right. When I'm depressed, performing the most basic task is like running an ultramarathon. When I'm able to push through and accomplish something, I call it "conquering my demons."
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Jun 28, 2018 14:51
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Cat Army
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Sarcopenia posted:Looove this article but I really think that you should put a content warning on that. I'm accurately medicated with no signs of depression now but if I had read this a year ago this could very well have triggered something terrible. .I'm glad I read the quoted part before I clicked through because having strikingly familiar intrusive thoughts written out like that is really unnerving. That excerpt alone made me chuck back a handful of propanolol before continuing with my day. People really don't get how depression and anxiety poison your mind - your description of wriggling worms is spot on. Thinking "I have no reason to feel this way" is just another form of self-harm that depressed people engage in. I have to say, though, I prefer dealing with people who just don't get it/think it's the same as being sad to the people who understand depression just enough to be like "just go the gym! Exercise helps! You need to get out more! You just need to suck it up and force yourself! I read an article once which...." etc. That's just handing a depressed person a stick and encouraging them to beat themselves with it - now I get to think "I'm such a gently caress up I can't even do [easy thing]. This is my fault. I'm not really depressed, I'm just lazy. Should probably just off myself because I'll never be better and I'll never be good" on repeat all day. I've had quite good results with "if I was functional enough to get to the gym right now, I'd be functional enough to get out of bed on the weekends. Let me work on that first and then I'll be interested in your opinion on my mental healthcare plan."
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Jun 28, 2018 15:02
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This story MMA fighter/podcast host/pro wrestling enthusiast Chael Sonnen tells is pretty drat weird and there’s not really a better way to explain it because even he still doesn’t get it https://youtu.be/a881X4SYWDs Aesop Poprock has a new favorite as of 15:56 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 15:53
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Aesop Poprock posted:You’d think Anthony Bourdain, Robin Williams, etc etc etc should be enough of a hint to people about that but nope Robin Williams had been been diagnosed with and was suffering from an incurable and debilitating degenerative neurological disorder that was going to kill his mind before it killed his body. It's possible he killed himself because he was depressed, but it's also possible that he freely and with full awareness chose to self-euthanize rather than find himself trapped in a living prison with only occasional bouts of lucidity.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:57
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Phanatic posted:Robin Williams had been been diagnosed with and was suffering from an incurable and debilitating degenerative neurological disorder that was going to kill his mind before it killed his body. It's possible he killed himself because he was depressed, but it's also possible that he freely and with full awareness chose to self-euthanize rather than find himself trapped in a living prison with only occasional bouts of lucidity. Well yeah but he’s been depressed since the 70s and was pretty open about it. I’m not an expert on his disease so don’t know if it gestates that long though tbh
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Jun 28, 2018 15:58
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Werong Bustope posted:I have to say, though, I prefer dealing with people who just don't get it/think it's the same as being sad to the people who understand depression just enough to be like "just go the gym! Exercise helps! You need to get out more! You just need to suck it up and force yourself! I read an article once which...." etc. That's just handing a depressed person a stick and encouraging them to beat themselves with it - now I get to think "I'm such a gently caress up I can't even do [easy thing]. This is my fault. I'm not really depressed, I'm just lazy. Should probably just off myself because I'll never be better and I'll never be good" on repeat all day. Mmm. There's a thing called "behavioral activation" which is a fancy brain doctor word for "do stuff that makes you feel happier" which can be part of some treatments for depression (so too can exercise), but only if it's something you can realistically do, and usually not as the only treatment. not to turn this into depression chat but the.... the brain wears grooves. patterns of thoughts where you know what comes next. thoughts like the quoted ones, like, I know how they're gonna go, and there's this ease to them, like they're natural. the sadbrain knows the words to this song. more positive thoughts, or doing things that aren't part of that depressive funk, they're not easy at all. they seem alien and foreign and sometimes downright impossible even if they're not, actually (*thinks back to the days she was too depressed to take a 5m shower but could certainly spend 15m ruminating about exactly how she'd ruined everyone's lives*). and when the sadbrain doesn't have the energy for new, foreign, or alien, well... that easy groove is right there.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:36
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Lewy body dementia is basically what we would normally think of as the slide into dementia but in fast forward. Someone I knew who died from it went from slight tremors in the hands to death in 18 months, with only a few months between diagnosis and an inability to function independently. Obviously, we can't know with certainty what his motives were, but his family has said that his diagnosis was the reason he committed suicide, with the explanation that he did not have more than a few months left and so he chose to go out on his own terms. Personally, as someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts, I don't choose to use him as an example because of that uncertainty.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:40
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Azathoth posted:Obviously, we can't know with certainty what his motives were, but his family has said that his diagnosis was the reason he committed suicide, with the explanation that he did not have more than a few months left and so he chose to go out on his own terms. Personally, as someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts, I don't choose to use him as an example because of that uncertainty. According to what I could find, his widow said they didn't have a definitive diagnosis until after he died. But it's not as if a diagnosis would have helped much, there's little that you can do by that stage. What surprises (and shocks) me is that it's 4 years on and today is the first time I understood the pathology of the symptoms he had, even though it's the second-commonest form of dementia after Alzheimer's and I've had medical training about dementia. Ask most people and they think he was just depressed.
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Jun 28, 2018 17:29
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Aesop Poprock posted:This story MMA fighter/podcast host/pro wrestling enthusiast Chael Sonnen tells is pretty drat weird and there’s not really a better way to explain it because even he still doesn’t get it  ok so Steve is totally an actual for real psychopath right
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Jun 28, 2018 18:00
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:not to turn this into depression chat but the.... the brain wears grooves. patterns of thoughts where you know what comes next. thoughts like the quoted ones, like, I know how they're gonna go, and there's this ease to them, like they're natural. the sadbrain knows the words to this song. Yeah, when I was first being treated for major depression in my mid-twenties I had both a psychiatrist who would monitor my mood (through self-reporting) and prescribe meds to alleviate that and a psychiatrist who would work with me on developing coping mechanisms most other people take for granted (or don’t even need). His specialty was CBT (no, not *that* one. The other one. For brains), and I learned the two most valuable things I’ve learned as an adult: 1 - I can’t fix the mind I got with the mind I got 2 - I can’t think my way into acting better, but I can act my way into thinking better Like you say, it’s loving *hard*. And alien and counter to everything my broke-brain wants. It took a long, hard time. But it worked and I was eventually weaned off my meds. I’m not “cured” in any sense of the word. I still have episodes of depression. But they aren’t as deep, and don’t seem quite as insurmountable. The biggest difference is I now have tools I can use to not only recognize when this is happening to me, but to return to a more even keel emotionally and cognitively.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:14
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These are both very good posts. Like, doing things you enjoy to lift yourself up, or relearning alternatives to maladaptive habits/behaviours/thought patterns is a worthwhile and important part of treatment for many people and it's a process I'm going through at the moment, supplemented by meds because without those I wouldn't be able to do the smallest thing. But it takes time to undo a lifetime of sick thinking, it's hard, and as my health care professionals keep reminding me, it's really easy to set unattainable goals, fail and regress. "Just" doing something like going to the gym regularly might as well be crossing the Sahara if you're struggling to have a shower once a week, or get out of bed before 4pm on your day off, or whatever. It's like having a broken leg; yes, you need to do physio and exercise, but a random person isn't qualified to tell you how far you should be walking or how hard you should push yourself. Anyway, sorry for continuing the brain problems derail! I can't remember if he's been discussed in this thread before but a recent episode of mfm introduced me to Harvey Glatman, the Glamour Girl Slayer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Glatman Notable for getting caught practicing autoerotic asphyxiation with a rope at twelve years old.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:36
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:Mmm. There's a thing called "behavioral activation" which is a fancy brain doctor word for "do stuff that makes you feel happier" which can be part of some treatments for depression (so too can exercise), but only if it's something you can realistically do, and usually not as the only treatment. I find mindfulness stuff most helpful when I'm on the edges of a depression, when I'm medicated and functional but still feel that pit inside sucking at me. It helps me determine where my emotions are being warped and helps me avoid feeding the depression too badly. But when I'm in a severe episode, that doesn't really work. It still might get me up and get me to eat or shower or do basic self-care, though, which is a victory for maintaining myself so I can feel better later.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:37
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Basically being clean and fed and hydrated isn't going to cure my depression, but being dirty and hungry and thirsty will certainly make it worse. Same like taking regular long walks won't cure me, but sitting on my rear end all day will make me feel worse.
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Jun 28, 2018 18:41
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Sarcopenia posted:That's exactly my point. I don't know how many times I've tried to explain to people that for example, that time when someone close to you died is not the same thing. It always seems like they feel like it is a slap to their face. As if I'm diminishing the pain they've felt due to things that have happened to them. "I felt a huge loss and I got through it without being a sad sack.". I could have gotten a million dollars tomorrow and be promised world peace but it wouldn't have changed the fact that in my mind I was a worthless sack of poo poo that people would be way better off not having in their lives because I'm a big fakey faker who is draining the life out of everyone around me. I've been thinking about this a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that while a brain can imagine living without legs or without an arm to some extent, because those factors do not affect the working of one's cognition, a brain just can't imagine itself being deformed by a mental illness, no matter how well meaning the person trying to understand depression can be. It's like, cogito ergo sum, but what happens when the cogitum breaks down, can the being that flows from it relate to the being built up from the "normal" cogitata? Hardly, if it really is true that we are just a product of our experiences.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:00
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In the end, the only thing* the brain couldn’t understand… was itself *not the only thing
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Jun 28, 2018 19:23
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Sarcopenia posted:it wouldn't have changed the fact that in my mind I was a worthless sack of poo poo that people would be way better off not having in their lives because I'm a big fakey faker who is draining the life out of everyone around me. This is a feeling that cannot be adequately described to anyone who hasn't already felt it. It crushing and you feel like your death would be a favor to everyone and, while they might be sad for a little while, eventually they'd realize they are totally better off without having your around to bother them and make them worry and constantly provide validation for your existence. I'm so much better now but that's after medication, years of therapy, and a gender identity disorder diagnosis and related treatment. It's still a struggle every day, but Cognitive Behavioral Therapy was a big help.
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Jun 28, 2018 19:50
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Aleph Null posted:This is a feeling that cannot be adequately described to anyone who hasn't already felt it. It crushing and you feel like your death would be a favor to everyone and, while they might be sad for a little while, eventually they'd realize they are totally better off without having your around to bother them and make them worry and constantly provide validation for your existence. I'll second all of this. CBT has been such a huge help.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:01
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In conclusion, mental illness is a land of contrasts.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:02
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Azathoth posted:I'll second all of this. CBT has been such a huge help. Whoa for some reason I complete forgot the acronym for cognitive behavioral therapy and only remembered the one for cock and ball torture. Jesus wept.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:23
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Wasabi the J posted:Whoa for some reason I complete forgot the acronym for cognitive behavioral therapy and only remembered the one for cock and ball torture. Yeah, that confused the poo poo out of me the first time I saw CBT in a porn video's title. CBT (not the cock and ball one) pulled me out of the worst of it. Now I'm on antidepressants because lol American healthcare system I can't afford therapy but pills are dirt cheap.
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Jun 28, 2018 20:30
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OutOfPrint posted:Yeah, that confused the poo poo out of me the first time I saw CBT in a porn video's title. I hear this confusion all the time on SA, but I think you're the first to take it from the the angle of "What, there are cognitive behaviour therapy pornos?"
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Jun 28, 2018 20:55
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Wasabi the J posted:Whoa for some reason I complete forgot the acronym for cognitive behavioral therapy and only remembered the one for cock and ball torture. Although, I haven’t seen any studies that suggest that cock and ball torture doesnt help treat depression.
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Jun 28, 2018 21:04
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Jedit posted:I hear this confusion all the time on SA, but I think you're the first to take it from the the angle of "What, there are cognitive behaviour therapy pornos?" Therapist porn has to be a thing.
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Jun 28, 2018 21:05
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Yup. Anything where you gently caress with power dynamics is definitely going to have porn.
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Jun 28, 2018 21:36
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:Yeah, between this and the Nutty Putty incident, caving can just gently caress right off. Jesus H Christ. I can’t even read to the end of that, my chest feels tight by the end of the first few paragraphs. 
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Jun 28, 2018 22:03
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monkeytennis posted:Jesus H Christ. I can’t even read to the end of that, my chest feels tight by the end of the first few paragraphs. It might be the writing, but I found it weird when it said they couldn't pull him out without breaking his legs... so they just didnt and then he died
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Jun 28, 2018 23:20
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monkeytennis posted:Jesus H Christ. I can’t even read to the end of that, my chest feels tight by the end of the first few paragraphs. Is it flakiness on my computer's end, or does that article just end with "welp, not gettin' this guy out alive"? Also, I've been sky-diving, which is a kind of batshit crazy thing to do, but I really don't get why anyone would deliberately squeeze themselves into a cave where other people have died. "Hmm, yes, I'm a grown man, lemme just try to navigate a 8.5" inch corkscrew crevasse that a 140 pound teenager got stuck in"
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Jun 28, 2018 23:34
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Yeah, same here the article just sort of ends quite abruptly.
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Jun 28, 2018 23:37
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NLJP posted:
It's worth noting that Chael Sonnen is congenitally incapable of telling the truth, and every single word of that story is undoubtedly a lie.
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Jun 28, 2018 23:51
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It’s a little confusing from what I remember since it’s been a while since I read the article but wasn’t it basically they were sure he’d die from tha trauma or something and he was in agony as they tried to move him? In retrospect yeah it seems weird they wouldn’t even attempt it as a last ditch resort though In regards to the nutty putty cave not chael sonnen. What a weird story to tell if none of it was true, is he from 1.0 GBS or something?
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Jun 28, 2018 23:52
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fruit on the bottom posted:Yeah, same here the article just sort of ends quite abruptly. JacquelineDempsey posted:Is it flakiness on my computer's end, or does that article just end with "welp, not gettin' this guy out alive"? Sorry 'bout that y'all -- it was actually a two-part article, and the second part apparently wasn't linked. Here's the end if you want to read it.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:03
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Drunk Nerds posted:It might be the writing, but I found it weird when it said they couldn't pull him out without breaking his legs... so they just didnt and then he died It's the writing. When they tried to pull him out, one of the pulleys gave way because the walls are made out of soft clay and it wasn't anchored fully into solid rock, they tried to fix it but couldn't get that critical pulley anchored right for a long time. By the time they got it working enough to try again, he was unconscious and they determined that the bends in the cave meant that they needed him to be able to make small adjustments as they pulled.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:22
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:Sorry 'bout that y'all -- it was actually a two-part article, and the second part apparently wasn't linked. jeeze louise, I almost wish you hadn't posted that. It just gets worse and worse.quote:"John loves the outdoors; he loves Utah; he loves wide open space," said Emily. "It's so fitting that it's his spot now." Emily, sweetie, this story brought me to tears and I want to give you all the hugs in the world, but I think what killed your man was the exact polar opposite of "wide open space"
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Jun 29, 2018 00:47
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Jedit posted:I hear this confusion all the time on SA, but I think you're the first to take it from the the angle of "What, there are cognitive behaviour therapy pornos?" I had the same confusion, since CBT had *always* meant cognitive behavioral therapy to me loooong before porn had really moved off usenet. I guess I was expecting something more along the lines of Dom/Sub operant conditioning games or something when I saw a title “CBT - Dom and her Slave.mpg” To say I was... surprised would be understating things. The Internet failed me and continues to this day.
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Jun 29, 2018 00:57
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JacquelineDempsey posted:
That’s what makes it so fitting! It’s his arch-nemesis
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Jun 29, 2018 01:05
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...i4Zb?ocid=ientpquote:A team of cold-case investigators claim they’ve decoded a 1972 message by D.B. Cooper — and that it contains a confession from Vietnam veteran Robert Rackstraw, long suspected of being the infamous skyjacker.
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Jun 29, 2018 01:07
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Why am I not seeing this reported anywhere else? If it turns out to be true then that makes two amazing cold case solves so far this year. Gonna cross my fingers they figure out who the Zodiac and Jack the Ripper are next. Live in a world with no more mysteries!
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Jun 29, 2018 01:31
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Solice Kirsk posted:Why am I not seeing this reported anywhere else? If it turns out to be true then that makes two amazing cold case solves so far this year. Gonna cross my fingers they figure out who the Zodiac 
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Jun 29, 2018 01:36
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Solice Kirsk posted:Why am I not seeing this reported anywhere else? If it turns out to be true then that makes two amazing cold case solves so far this year. Gonna cross my fingers they figure out who the Zodiac and Jack the Ripper are next. Live in a world with no more mysteries!
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Jun 29, 2018 01:50
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