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chiasaur11 posted:No, those aren't the Knights of Ren. It would simplify things if they were, but those guys were just el chumpo non-force users. I thought they had cool weapons.
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Jun 29, 2018 01:11
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But Star Wars is pro-rebellion. I suppose it's the nature of all revolutionary counter-cultures to get subsumed under capitalism.
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Jun 29, 2018 01:59
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Jun 29, 2018 02:21
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MonsieurChoc posted:I thought they had cool weapons. They're also supposed to be Teras Kasi masters.
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Jun 29, 2018 02:42
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The MSJ posted:They're also supposed to be Teras Kasi masters. They should have been Kojima bosses, with way-too-long speeches explaining their backstories and cool boss music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWc2qS4tDPU
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Jun 29, 2018 02:54
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Jewmanji posted:Ok so then you agree. Luke was on the verge of deliberately murdering him. That’s the point of the scene. He makes a bad call that has ramifications that go deeper than just anger from Ren. And Luke runs off, away from his mistake, wanting to die. He only wins when he confronts that mistake and owns up to it. He doesn’t excuse it, or justify it. He looks it dead in the eye and says I failed.
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Jun 29, 2018 03:01
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I don't think anyone is arguing that. We are in agreement about that. The original debate was whether it was good characterization for Luke (it's not), and then jivjov went on some tangent about how Luke never intended to kill Kylo.
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Jun 29, 2018 03:14
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Why's it bad? Is it inconsistent for that guy to worry about what might happen in the future, based on things his psychic powers reveal to him, and make a big mistake because of it? To have fleeting homicidal feelings about family? To try to solve everything himself, risking his soul in the process, because he's the only one around with powers? To run off on his own and not tell anybody what he's doing or why because of a feeling?
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Jun 29, 2018 03:47
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didn't you know that once you've done a heroic thing you're literally incapable of ever making mistakes again
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Jun 29, 2018 03:51
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Bongo Bill posted:Why's it bad? Is it inconsistent for that guy to worry about what might happen in the future, based on things his psychic powers reveal to him, and make a big mistake because of it? To have fleeting homicidal feelings about family? To try to solve everything himself, risking his soul in the process, because he's the only one around with powers? To run off on his own and not tell anybody what he's doing or why because of a feeling? It’s consistent but this is the SA star war thread soooooo Just pray Great Value SMG doesn’t quote you
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Jun 29, 2018 03:51
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I don't have an issue with Luke being an insane fugitive murderer; it was already heavily hinted he was heading in that direction during rotj in retrospect. What I do have an issue with is the movie acting like that big of a piece of poo poo should or could be celebrated as a great hero of the resistance who inspires everyone with his sacrifice. It would be like if everyone was celebrating darth vader for being a hero of the rebellion because he had a deathbed conversion
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Jun 29, 2018 03:54
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Bongo Bill posted:Why's it bad? Is it inconsistent for that guy to worry about what might happen in the future, based on things his psychic powers reveal to him, and make a big mistake because of it? To have fleeting homicidal feelings about family? To try to solve everything himself, risking his soul in the process, because he's the only one around with powers? To run off on his own and not tell anybody what he's doing or why because of a feeling? It's bad because it was reduced to two minor flashbacks instead of elaborated upon in any way.
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Jun 29, 2018 04:01
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I mean, as in most other respects the movie is trying to have its cake and eat it too I guess. It wants to have edgy luke who is so colossal of a fuckup that the new characters have to move past him, and if you think about it for more than 30 seconds you realize he's an insane irredeemable hypocrite monster in several respects, but it also wants him to be a big darn hero and have an inspiring heroic death at the end. It doesn't work at all in my humble hmo
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Jun 29, 2018 04:02
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Bongo Bill posted:Why's it bad? The actual issue, that people are struggling to articulate, is that Luke weirdly doesn’t change at all. He is exactly the same character as at the end of Episode 6 - except really bitter because he didn’t change. Luke has spent 40 years doing the same thing over and over, without progress, constantly loving up. He even researched the events of the prequels and remained clueless. His conclusion is, like, “Anakin was really strong. The Jedi should have killed him before he got strong.” That’s both moronic and weirdly dogmatic. Luke is slavishly devoted to the Jedi, but also considers them useless for anything but killing ‘bad guys’. And if they couldn’t kill Darth Sidious then, well, what good are they? Basically Luke spent like two or three decades contemplating a basic (false) dichotomy between ‘letting evil run rampant’ or ‘doing brutal preventative strikes on children’. He couldn’t figure out a third way in all those years. Ben quit the Jedi because he saw Luke was an idiot. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 05:22
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At what age does a person stop being considered a child in Star Wars? Because from this thread it seems like someone can be basically in their early 20s or someshit.
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Jun 29, 2018 05:31
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Assuming Luke's as young as being in his late 40's during the flashback, even if Kylo is 23-24 it's not weird for Luke to refer to him as "a boy." Like that's a pretty big gulf in age and experience.
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Jun 29, 2018 05:51
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AndyElusive posted:At what age does a person stop being considered a child in Star Wars? Because from this thread it seems like someone can be basically in their early 20s or someshit. Well, pretty much every new character in the ST has a mental age of about sixteen, so... no upper limit?
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Jun 29, 2018 05:58
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Harime Nui posted:Assuming Luke's as young as being in his late 40's during the flashback, even if Kylo is 23-24 it's not weird for Luke to refer to him as "a boy." Like that's a pretty big gulf in age and experience. It was more of a phrase I thought. I took it as the way Ben looked at him was like a scared child, not so much he literally.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:16
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The real problem is that Luke actually regresses in the movie and it’s played as a win. Like he’s first “the jedi suck because darth sidious kicked their asses (and I guess the idea is that vader finally kicked sidious’s rear end not luke?)” but then at the end he’s like “no man the jedi own now I guess.” Why? Because Yoda called him a dumb rear end?
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Jun 29, 2018 06:33
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I saw solo in 4dmax in Japan and it was hecka fun and I loved the disgusting wookie smell they sprayed in my face whenever chewie was on screen.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:41
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Because he finally owned up to his failure instead of running from it. He couldn’t teach Rey because he was so broken from what he did. He realizes how he could never live up To the legend of Luke because of his gently caress up. At the end he came to terms with his mistake (I’ll say it as many times as I have too) and realized that Rey can be better then he was. “We are what we grow beyond.”
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Jun 29, 2018 06:42
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Basically Luke is a Star Wars fan who just thought that George Lucas didn't understand his own mythology and got the Jedi completely wrong in the prequel movies, but then he realised that it was supposed to be like that, and his mind couldn't take it.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:23
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I wonder if episode 9 will at least attempt to somewhat explain how the Empire got a lot stronger immediately after Vader and Sidious died, or Snoke’s backstory.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:34
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Lmao if you care at all about snoke.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:36
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CelticPredator posted:Because he finally owned up to his failure instead of running from it. He couldn’t teach Rey because he was so broken from what he did. He realizes how he could never live up Well this is just nonsense, because Rey is just as much of an idiot. The actual way for Rey to have been better was to join with Kylo Ren and rule the galaxy. Then you get a scene where Kylo Ren is portrayed as a crazy idiot for wanting to kill Luke Skywalker, like that comic with the crazy strawman and calm mature Hitler. It's one of those things fans do their best to not think about.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:38
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CelticPredator posted:Lmao if you care at all about snoke. I don’t; I’m just curious if Disney cares at all about major plot holes.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:49
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No one cares about snoke.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:51
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Plot hole: we never saw Snoke graduate, are we meant to believe the highly effective First Order doesn't even require a diploma? Hope Kathleen Kennedy gets fired for this bullshit.
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Jun 29, 2018 08:54
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On his Spacebook page, Snoke indicated that he graduated from the School of Hard Knocks.
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Jun 29, 2018 09:01
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CelticPredator posted:No one cares about snoke. He’s just one major plot hole Disney doesn’t care about, apparently.
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Jun 29, 2018 09:14
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The MSJ posted:On his Spacebook page, Snoke indicated that he graduated from the School of Hard Knocks. Do you think Snoke ever used his Force Discord powers to shitpost
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Jun 29, 2018 13:16
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RBA Starblade posted:Do you think Snoke ever used his Force Discord powers to shitpost kylo: grandfather...please...show me the power of the dark snoke force timing kylo pretending to be grampa: https://giphy.com/gifs/top-challenge-squee-lU4CM5iHnQ8uI Jerkface fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 13:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:His conclusion is, like, “Anakin was really strong. The Jedi should have killed him before he got strong.” his conclusion is that the rise of Darth Vader was the Jedi's fault, which is almost verbatim what he says in the film and is also the thesis of five entire other movies
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Jun 29, 2018 13:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:They should have been Kojima bosses, with way-too-long speeches explaining their backstories and cool boss music. Hideo Kojima should direct every future Star Wars film.
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Jun 29, 2018 14:59
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Skyyywalkers in flight Interstellar fight
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Jun 29, 2018 15:05
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Bleck posted:his conclusion is that the rise of Darth Vader was the Jedi's fault, which is almost verbatim what he says in the film and is also the thesis of five entire other movies Luke does not say that; you’re mixing up two different statements. Luke says the Jedi were responsible for Vader’s training. (And that’s not entirely true, but whatever.) But then, Luke says Sidious and Snoke were the external evils responsible for ‘the rise of darkness’, and the Jedi should have ‘done something before it was too late’. His complaints are consistently that the Jedi didn’t act fast enough to kill the baddies: “In my hubris, I thought I could train him,” but “by the time I realized I was no match for the darkness rising in him, it was too late,” and “at the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out.” Note the passive language and deflection: ‘we allowed it to happen because we just didn’t realize it was happening.’ SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 15:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Luke does not say that; you’re mixing up two different statements. I don't know if we're agreeing, exactly, but I took it to mean that Luke questioned how he could possible stop the power of the Dark Side if an entire group of Jedi Masters couldn't stop it?
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Jun 29, 2018 16:21
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They should have hired Chris Avellone as a creative consultant.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:27
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tadashi posted:I don't know if we're agreeing, exactly, but I took it to mean that Luke questioned how he could possible stop the power of the Dark Side if an entire group of Jedi Masters couldn't stop it? He does say how it’s possible, in his view: just don’t be hubristic. The repeated emphasis on hubris is important. Luke believes the Jedi defied the will of God and generated imbalance by allowing Anakin and Ben to live. Their confidence, that they could eventually overpower ‘the darkness’ with sufficient Jedi training, was excessive and so they were punished.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:43
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On the other hand, he also says the Force belongs to everyone and the Jedi trying to paint themselves as the sole guardians of the Force was bad.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:05
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