|
If you ignore the pages of monologue in which his suffering is described in agonizing detail and informs the way he acts and thinks, then sure his suffering doesn't matter. Really it's his promotion that is immaterial. He is more powerful but less free. His influence is borrowed, and he is now forever indebted. Your reading of Glokta as a self-insert of intellectual superiority says more about your own self than anything to do with the text.
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 10:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:If you ignore the pages of monologue in which his suffering is described in agonizing detail and informs the way he acts and thinks, then sure his suffering doesn't matter. This is a good example: Glokta doesn't suffer because of this. He doesn't really mind that he's a servant to Bayaz. The thing about internal monologues is that they are just internal monologues. They illustrate thought, and don't influence human behaviour that much compared to learned or involuntary responses. What matter are actions. Doubtless a lot of dictators stub their toes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 10:50
|
|
|
A human heart posted:Are you ok my man Upon further reflection, it's probably okay to like things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 13:01
|
|
|
I think Nicomo Cosca is hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
He's no Švejk.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 16:26
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:I am enjoying people reimagining the plot of the series so that they don't have admit that the cool witty sarcastic viewpoint character is a self-insert fantasy. I’m glad I’m not you. This is kind of sad.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 04:40
|
|
|
I dunno, he seems to be enjoying trolling the poo poo out of everyone. Maybe he's still shooting for the most ignored poster spot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 05:42
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:He's no Švejk. yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago so fuckin relatable
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 13:32
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago Same but unironically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 13:58
|
|
|
Bravest of Lamps is good cause he stirs up debate in dead threads and makes me slightly reconsider books I otherwise uncritically enjoy. Even if he's just trolling it's still fun to discuss these books, and it's rare a real troll will be able to cite quotes the way BotL can.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 15:55
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago Powerful self-own
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 16:04
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 00:34
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:yeah who don't love to lay back and read books from a hundred years ago 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 03:33
|
|
|
Good news everyone!Joe Abercrombie posted:Looks very much as if the first book, A Little Hatred, will be published September 2019 in the UK and US, with the other two books, The Trouble With Peace, and The Beautiful Machine, following at beautifully regular and predictable one year intervals. This is the hope. No promises are made, of course. That would be MADNESS. We also hope that at least some of the key translations can be done in the meantime, so we can make that release date across a few different languages, which would be lovely. https://www.joeabercrombie.com/2018/06/29/progress-report-june-18/ It'll take place mostly in the Union and the North, so those of us hoping to see a bit more of Gurkhul will have to wait. Still, exciting news. Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jun 29, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 22:42
|
|
|
Wonder if they'll be well-written this time around!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 22:45
|
|
|
Cool I’m excited and posting in here because I enjoy the books.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2018 00:59
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Wonder if they'll be well-written this time around! l o l never stop
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2018 08:11
|
|
|
Interesting choice to stick with the Union & The North. I was really hoping for Gurkul, and some stuff in the (new) old empire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Interesting choice to stick with the Union & The North. I was really hoping for Gurkul, and some stuff in the (new) old empire. I dunno if I’d call it sticking with, he’s mixed the settings up some with Best Served Cold and Red Country. I’d like some more Gurkul as well, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2018 15:57
|
|
|
Wanna see the Magus deal with a depression and run on the bank.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 02:47
|
|
|
Ccs posted:Bravest of Lamps is good cause he stirs up debate in dead threads and makes me slightly reconsider books I otherwise uncritically enjoy. Even if he's just trolling it's still fun to discuss these books, and it's rare a real troll will be able to cite quotes the way BotL can. I agree with this but he was funnier and more relevant with Rothfuss. I liked his early stuff but this latest album is a stretch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 09:50
|
|
|
Joe re-read all his books are part of the work on the new ones and wrote a little report on each: http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/ "At the end of this one I actually missed Temple and Shy and, rather pathetically for someone who wrote the book, sorta wanted to know what happened next in their lives…" I would be happy to see more Shy in the new trilogy, Temple, meh. Also, how about Ferro? We left her going crazy and half demon possessed IIRC, I'd love a follow up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
So if these books are subversive, why do they feature a race of universally evil subhumans? Isn't that like the first thing you're expected to "subvert" if you're trying to avoid genre fantasy cliches? Or is Abercrombie subverting subversion? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jul 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
yeah i'm sure that wouldn't get old as gently caress super quickly you still have to play some tropes straight for the subverted ones to have any impact, that's like writing 101 botl. it's like if every story beat in an m night film was a twist instead of just once a film. Big Bowie Bonanza fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:you still have to play some tropes straight for the subverted ones to have any impact, that's like writing 101 botl Only if you treat TvTropes as a writing guide and take the idea of "subverting tropes" seriously. Again, why have a race of universally evil subhumans if you're trying to avoid cliches? Besides the obvious purpose of serving as fodder for juvenile action sequences. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
tropes and subverting tropes existed far prior to tvtropes lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
also if u missed that abercrombie plays genre cliches/tropes straight and focuses on playing with character tropes/cliches you're bad at reading
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:tropes and subverting tropes existed far prior to tvtropes lol Big Bowie Bonanza posted:also if u missed that abercrombie plays genre cliches/tropes straight and focuses on playing with character tropes/cliches you're bad at reading The actual words are "cliche" and "parody". TvTropes developed phrases like "subverting tropes" and "playing with tropes" in order to pretend that cliches are a serious subject of art and criticism. This leads to baffling ideas such as "you still have to play some tropes straight for the subverted ones to have any impact". You need to translate it into english in order to see just how stupid it is: "You still have to refrain from complete parody for the parody to have impact." Or in this case: "You still have to include a race of evil subhumans without a hint of parody for your parody to have any impact." So why are the non-parodic orcs so necessary?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
even translated into english it makes total sense galaxy quest is a parody of the star trek films but it's good because it's actually still a competent star trek film AND a parody. you just don't seem to really get your own argument here dude
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
This argument is the worst.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
it sucks because you can usually tell when botl has actually thought about what he's writing
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:even translated into english it makes total sense Your idea of "impactful parody" is for it to have its cake and eat it too. Galaxy Quest is neither a good parody of Star Trek nor is it a good science fiction film. It's just a dull comedy. Again, why are the non-parodic race of orcs necessary for The First Law series?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
i already told you why but you missed the part too where i said you're bad at reading
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:i already told you why but you missed the part too where i said you're bad at reading Your argument is that Abercrombie needed to "play some tropes" straight in order to write impactful parody. And according to your example, "impactful parody" means that a work should be both a good parody and in itself a good example of its genre. Thus you're saying Abercrombie needed orcs so that he could parody genre fantasy, but also needed them to be un-parodic so that he could write a good work of fantasy. Like we can point out the obvious problem here: orcs do not actually make for good fiction. Even arch-hack Tolkien thought that a race of universally evil subhumans was an artistic and intellectual failure, and the Shanka are even more one-dimensionally evil than the orcs, who have at least personalities and character. It's hard not to notice that they could be replaced entirely with just ordinary humans without changing anything, which is probably why they haven't appeared for four books aside brief mentions, as if they were just some embarrassing obligation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:in order to pretend that cliches are a serious subject of art and criticism. Yeah gently caress you Vladimir Propp "subverting tropes" kinda didn't exist as a term before TvTropes tho The Vosgian Beast fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jul 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
The Vosgian Beast posted:Yeah gently caress you Vladimir Propp Propp and Aristoteles aren't working on cliches, they were studying the structure of very specific genres (and not in the sense of a story having orcs or spaceship) in order to understand them. The principles TvTropes in contrast are that cliches are like Pokemon, and having the most Pokemon is the best. The same "tropes" apply equally well in both animation and literature, just as long as you can have the longest list of examples.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Propp and Aristoteles aren't working on cliches, they were studying the structure of very specific genres Yes, some of which we might call the cliches of said genre although I can understand why you might want to avoid the normative judgement associate with "cliche" Aristotle wasn't a formalist though, so I don't know why you're bringing him up. BravestOfTheLamps posted:The principles TvTropes in contrast are that cliches are like Pokemon, and having the most Pokemon is the best. The same "tropes" apply equally well in both animation and literature, just as long as you can have the longest list of examples. I'd be interested to hear your argument on why a cliche can't be translated from one medium to another. It seems obvious to me that the the mad doctor from Disney's The Mad Doctor is the same basic stock character as the mad doctor from Maniac as are the innumerable stock mad scientists in pulp paperbacks around the same time, but maybe I'm missing something and it's like comparing a melody to a sketch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:36
|
|
|
Because it idiotically places the content of a medium over its form. This is why different media are practically interchangeable for TvTropes: the formal qualities don't matter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Because it idiotically places the content of a medium over its form. This is why different media are practically interchangeable for TvTropes: the formal qualities don't matter. Please elaborate, I'm interested
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:43
|
|