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TheAgent posted:June was an abyssal funding month. No wonder crobbear was sweating like a farm animal. Maybe their slacking backers should get off their ungrateful asses and offer more dollars for the savior of PC Games to wipe off his sweat which is the direct result of working late hours in a hot summer and not taking his well deserved vacation to an exotic location as he well loving should.
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Jul 1, 2018 16:59
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Pharohman777 posted:Welcome to the viewing party for the trainwreck we call star citizen. i will be meta / off-topic on the first day here. but here is my 2 cents concerning trainwreck: my live is a trainwreck. and thats why i love star citizen. it's a giant one, my live cannot compare to this. so while my live is a little choo-choo train heading for disaster STAR CITIZEN is a runaway (glitchy) freight train. thats why i love it. But for completely different reasons than the backers  also i could never hate anyone on any forum. to me it's all entertainment. and THIS star citizen provides in spades. it got to a point where it is almost like soccer or sports. People can argue season after season who is going to win, who are the "good" boy and tha "bad" ones. the "i told you so", the "i saw it all coming" etc. i started as someone realyl interested in SC. later i surfed the reddit pages, then over to the frontier forums where SA is mentionned often. so i got interested in SA. lurked here for a long time, watched the great bootcha videos and also gorfs recent video. and today i said: THATS IT! i'm paying 10$ for all this now 
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Jul 1, 2018 17:03
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space-X-chicken posted:i will be meta / off-topic on the first day here. but here is my 2 cents concerning trainwreck: Source your quotes
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Jul 1, 2018 17:09
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zaphod stop being a grouch
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Jul 1, 2018 17:13
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SpaceXChicken have you visited other threads on sa I for one legitimately enjoy browsing birds and porn on Sunday afternoons https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3842573 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3676751
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Jul 1, 2018 17:19
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I wonder if Chris has finally been hit with the realization that right now his legacy is _at best_ "that dude who squanders 100s of millions making an impossible failure of a game and a laughing stock" all the way too "some 2 bit shyster who struck scam gold" And is trying to circle the wagons back into reality. but who knows which Chris will show up next week so...
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Jul 1, 2018 17:20
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Somewhat interesting video comparing 3.1/3.2. Actually well done that shows off all the refractoring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ft0vU1muQA But at 2:09 is where I was going wtf.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:23
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C-Bangin' it 
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Sabreseven posted:I've watched your awesome vid several times now with the closed captions enabled, not because I am hard of hearing, but because I love that you put so much effort into it for our hearing impared buddies. I agree.  And G0RF is a cut above everybody! A true gentleman that tries to cater to everybody with amicable cheer and understanding.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:24
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Evil_Greven posted:Folks, I know we hammer Star Citizen a lot, but have you seen the VR backpack PC? Still haven't, link gives access denied.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:28
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Agony Aunt posted:Still haven't, link gives access denied. Works for me. Its a backpack that's a PC and it costs $2300 Which is like, not even the price of some of the better SC ships, much less the super 27k package? Pah, plebians. Also its got a 1070 so good luck doing much VR on that, my 1080 frequently has trouble keeping up with VR.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:30
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Agony Aunt posted:Still haven't, link gives access denied. MSI VR One quote:Directional Exhaust pushes hot air away
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Jul 1, 2018 17:31
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Colostomy Bag posted:Somewhat interesting video comparing 3.1/3.2. Actually well done that shows off all the refractoring. I think that's supposed to be the emp generator.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:32
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Scruffpuff posted:This right here is what pisses me off the most about people insisting that Chris has "vision" or that "the technology isn't ready for his vision" like he's some kind of loving futurist. Spiderdrake posted:And then all he can think of is a dude in his space helmet drinking at a bar placed a foot too far from him while wearing many, many coats. It's a vision of the most mundane, horrifyingly boring space fantasy. A mash up of age of sail and ww2 dogfighting with hand loaded cargo and electrical warnings from 1970 stuck on the wall. Occasional spurts of vaguely modern sci-fi, but only a facade, a potemkin village of references to That Thing You Like as you roll down the river of mining rocks with a laser and corridor fps action from the 90s. I'm glad other people are picking up on this too. I think I need to start harping on the whole "Chris lacks understanding at even a basic of what he's trying to do." Now that all may be totally moot, since I still believe the Roberts have mostly left the project at this point to die beyond swooping in and flexing their impotent authority once a week to help ensure it stays screwed up. CR never knew what he was getting into, hasn't a clue how it would come together (I'm pretty sure he thought you could build separate"modules" and then just OOP magic them together, and systems where you told it how to do a thing and it would magically function with everything because it's a system, not some piece of code). Ironically though his complete lack of understanding made him a millionaire. It may be his sheer ignorance that people could bank on so assuringly because he could flat out lie to people and not realize he is lying, because he's clueless.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:34
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Colostomy Bag posted:Somewhat interesting video comparing 3.1/3.2. Actually well done that shows off all the refractoring. What's with the quantum drive stuff? What is happening differently here? Is it finding it's own way around the planet? Also LOL spending dev time to get rid of all the fidelious movement that shitizens have been begging for.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:34
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The Titanic posted:I'm glad other people are picking up on this too. I think I need to start harping on the whole "Chris lacks understanding at even a basic of what he's trying to do." What I love is how star citizens thumb their noses at elite dangerous because it isn't good enough to fulfill their vision, but if CIG ever actually produces something it'll be less than elite dangerous. EVE and elite are real games because they made concessions and focused on core gameplay and built from there, rather than being a fantasy simulator of everything you could ever want. Star citizen did that by making the greatest concession of all; existence.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:39
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bought a bunch of space games today, including heat signature and star traders for under $50 hurray
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Jul 1, 2018 17:39
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And I want to be super clear here that if this was merely an absurdly ambitious game in development for 6 years with a questionable leader at the helm and very little progress to show BUT they hadn't charged any money yet since it wasn't out, then we'd be in a wildly different situation. Then we could look on and say 'hey, maybe they will eventually put it out, who knows.' And that would be that. But the fact that they're pre-selling in game content ships and space-land, for a game that isn't even out yet, that's the truly scammy thing here that makes SC unique and terrible among even tons of lovely videogames or even outright failed ones. And these ships aren't $10 apiece but hundreds or thousands of dollars. If there was a framework playable with hundreds of beta participants in the same server and several working ships and just needed to finish more content, that'd even be a wildly different situation. But the fact that the core game concept itself is unproven and the core engine is unfinished and unplayable is again the truly scammy thing here that makes SC uniquely awful. It shouldn't need to be said that you shouldn't take people's thousands of dollars, promise a product in a couple years, spend 6 years with almost nothing to show and continue to ask for more money. That's just not okay. Its not ethical.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:44
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Armadillo Tank posted:On the argon in SC thing. Honestly I think it's because CR doesn't understand how games work at even a basic level. He doesn't realize how games obscure and trick people into believing they are more complex than they really are. He's making it complex because he thinks if he builds life, his life simulation will naturally happen. So he has a tick of monitoring these values and thinks that because they exist, the rest of his game is going to just magically utilize them. He has no clue that you don't just set values on things and then you need to program everything else around it that has to use these values to actually use them. I totally believe he thinks this is how computers work. To him it's like physical legos. You put a brick here, and other bricks automatically have to interact with that brick because it's there. He utterly fails to grasp that in a computer, there is no LEGO. There is no "file" even. You can't take a file out of a computer and play with it (barring printing it, but that's not the concept here). All these things are just imaginary tricks. One of his cornerstone "I don't understand how engine's work" moments probably has to have been his obsession with holograms. How he went in to make them "real" and trumpeted this. And then somebody got a hold of it, and it was faked. And of course since then we haven't heard about the stupid holograms anymore. He didn't understand the concept, he didn't understand how it's done, and he didn't even know what he was asking his programmers to do. That is probably the worst offense here, and why Star Citizen is years late and has no hope of coming out. He doesn't know what to ask for. When he sees the results, he's unhappy with it because it's not what he "knows" it should be. He's probably wasted thousands and thousands of hours of programming time churning out unusable poo poo because he's asking for the dumbest things and wanting them built in the exact opposite method of how they should be done in a game engine.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:45
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The Titanic posted:Honestly I think it's because CR doesn't understand how games work at even a basic level. He doesn't realize how games obscure and trick people into believing they are more complex than they really are. This is really true, he doesn't understand game design as a concept. He's just doing epic worldbuilding on a fantasy scale like he's JRR Tolkien. And then he leaves his scribblings and world building notes for programmers to attempt to somehow implement, even though they aren't tangible specifications. Roberts is really doing what every teenage boy dreams of being able to do, walking into a board-room of professional programmers and just exclaim "I want a game where you do this and this and this and this and oh man you can do this and this too!" and then they just make it for you, and because it was YOUR IDEA that means you were the most important person so you get all the money and fame. Even though literally anybody could do that and its not a skill and what really does need to be done and earns money is more being able to design within that fantasy what exactly the game should be, what will be fun, and how to implement those things in a reasonable budget. The Titanic posted:One of his cornerstone "I don't understand how engine's work" moments probably has to have been his obsession with holograms. How he went in to make them "real" and trumpeted this. Oh man, I want to know more about this story
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Jul 1, 2018 17:49
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Colostomy Bag posted:Somewhat interesting video comparing 3.1/3.2. Actually well done that shows off all the refractoring. Oh they added a spinning thingie (warp drive module?) in their space ship. Definitely nothing can go wrong with that, as nothing went wrong with the rest of their spinning stuff.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:49
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AbstractNapper posted:Oh they added a spinning thingie (warp drive module?) in their space ship. Definitely nothing can go wrong with that, as nothing went wrong with the rest of their spinning stuff. Between missing eyes and this spinning tunnel, they are archering Event Horizon.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:55
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Zaphod42 posted:Oh man, I want to know more about this story Last fall they kept going on and on about holograms. About how they'll be real hologram projections of something happening somewhere else, and not programming tricks, whatever that means. Then someone found one of the holograms was accidentally left casting a shadow when a flashlight was pointed at it, and we haven't heard about them since.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:57
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They were also banging on about their revolutionary render-to-texture at the same time as well. It made no sense.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:05
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XK posted:Last fall they kept going on and on about holograms. About how they'll be real hologram projections of something happening somewhere else, and not programming tricks, whatever that means. Then someone found one of the holograms was accidentally left casting a shadow when a flashlight was pointed at it, and we haven't heard about them since. A shadow of a full body, on a hologram that's supposed to be just a bust sculpture kinda thing. Also, said hologram was turned off at the time. 
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Jul 1, 2018 18:06
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XK posted:Last fall they kept going on and on about holograms. About how they'll be real hologram projections of something happening somewhere else, and not programming tricks, whatever that means. Then someone found one of the holograms was accidentally left casting a shadow when a flashlight was pointed at it, and we haven't heard about them since. I don't even know where to begin with how that doesn't make any sense. Like if they're talking about holograms not being their own model/animation but being a projection of something happening somewhere else, well, Valve did that back in 2003 with cameras that displayed images that were actually being recorded from somewhere else in the scene and re-projected in real time, even as the camera moved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q But I mean, that's still a programming trick, lol. And even if it cast a shadow that wouldn't mean it wasn't being recorded somewhere. But then what does having it be recorded in real-time get you if its a scripted hologram anyways? These are the questions Chris Roberts doesn't even think of. Truga posted:A shadow of a full body, on a hologram that's supposed to be just a bust sculpture kinda thing. lol that makes even less sense so it was supposed to be just a torso but apparently it was using the model of a full body and cutting it off and that's not okay because fidelity or something
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Jul 1, 2018 18:06
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Sorry, sleep posting on phone.
mania fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jul 1, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 18:08
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I just hope that one day we'll see the unreleased footage from the "Road to Citizen Con" doco they made, with Chris talking to his senior devs about programming, in the same way as when he spoke to Richard Garriot about momentum in zero-g. A glazed look on Chris's big fat face as he struggles to understand the big words and concepts being used, and the other person having to reword everything as though talking to a stupid child https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxlrKlLO9g for context
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Jul 1, 2018 18:08
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Its because CIG (if you haven't noticed already) are a bunch of incompetent blue footed boobs
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Jul 1, 2018 18:10
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Zaphod42 posted:lol that makes even less sense Basically, the real hologram was just a character model with a shader effect over it to make it look like a hologram. When it was off, you shouldn't have been able to see anything. If you pointed a flashlight at where the hologram would be, there was an invisible character model there that cast a shadow on the wall behind it. I couldn't find the video just now, but it was pretty laffo.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:17
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Was looking up Russian swear words and found this. Wonder what Aopoa means, it doesn't translate.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:18
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Zaphod42 posted:Like if they're talking about holograms not being their own model/animation but being a projection of something happening somewhere else, well, Valve did that back in 2003 with cameras that displayed images that were actually being recorded from somewhere else in the scene and re-projected in real time, even as the camera moved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q Yet, shitizens were also acting as if it was unprecedented, which was yet another hint that these people have zero experience from actually playing games. Edit: yeah, true. Crobbear's actually promised the super fidelitious, uber realistic version of this tech, but as The Titanic wrote above, he clearly does not know what he is asking, what that requires of his developer team, if it is worth it or where he is going with it. And surprising noone, when it was "implemented" to his team well (or best) intended efforts it was a disappointing hack to him and the whole thing has not been mentioned since. AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 1, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 18:20
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Star Citizen is good for Games Development.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:21
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Zaphod42 posted:so it was supposed to be just a torso but apparently it was using the model of a full body and cutting it off and that's not okay because fidelity or something That part is funnier with a bit of context. CIG was harping on about how in those other games* a hologram isn't really a projection like they would be in real life (?) but just player models with collision detection disabled and a special hologram texture applied. But that's cheating! So they bragged about how they'd be real holographic projections (???) and when we found the "holographic projection" in the game, it looked suspiciously like a player model with collision detection disabled and a special hologram texture applied - the very dirty trick they were disparaging while bragging about how much better they would make it. This suspicion was verified when we shined a flashlight on the "hologram", revealing the full-body shadow of the player model on the wall behind it, even though the hologram itself was only the head and shoulders. The shadow remained even when the hologram was turned off. None of this would be newsworthy in any real game, they'd just realized they needed to disable the shadow, and life goes on. It's CIG's insistence that real game developers are "cheating" and they're going to "do it really" (?????) that elevates this story. CIG pulls this poo poo all the time - I've literally lost count of the number of times they've done this kind of thing. * CIG likes to use the phrase "other games" a lot. That means they're making a game too!
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Jul 1, 2018 18:22
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Don't worry fellow commandos. Chris has said that they're still planning the game, which means they're very close to being started. In my experience with project management, planning usually takes between 5 and 10 percent of the total work necessary to finish a job, and since we're only six years in, let's say it'll only take one more year to get the planning stage finished. So, that's seven years to get 10% finished (to be generous) in 2019, so Squadron 42 should release somewhere around 2089. Barring any delays of course, but these guys are professionals. 
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Jul 1, 2018 18:25
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AbstractNapper posted:Which is what most people here said at that time. It was nothing new. Not only is it nothing new, but once CIG decided to just go the "cheating" route and do it the way every other company does it, they utterly failed at implementing it properly. CIG is the kid who fails the test with the answer key on the desk next to him.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:25
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Scruffpuff posted:That part is funnier with a bit of context. CIG was harping on about how in those other games* a hologram isn't really a projection like they would be in real life (?) but just player models with collision detection disabled and a special hologram texture applied. So they were promising that holograms would be like some kind of ridiculous particle emitters because everything in SC is a simulation. That's what I was trying to figure out, how far does the "fidelity" go. Were they talking about projecting something happening somewhere else, were they talking about the means of projection itself, or what. And of course, they weren't doing that. They weren't doing any of that.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:26
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Colostomy Bag posted:Somewhat interesting video comparing 3.1/3.2. Actually well done that shows off all the refractoring. Ah, so besides mining, they re-did a ship, halved travel times, increased weapon recoil, improved the visibility on 2 ships, and modified some lightning and details on ships and stations. Well, this is indeed quite the patch! Shows how much work has been done and how much closer we are to a finished product.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:37
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Zaphod42 posted:So they were promising that holograms would be like some kind of ridiculous particle emitters because everything in SC is a simulation. Just for reference. Here's their video (with timestamp ~16:56) of what was promised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ4mou4OR4U&t=902s The discussion here about that I think started with the Agent's post (or it might have been earlier): https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=1676&perpage=40#post475020702 I missed the thing later on where someone pointed out the shadow in some build of this poo poo and I only found out about the debacle when I asked the thread a few months ago because I was curious about the obvious disaster waiting to happen.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:44
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Zaphod42 posted:So they were promising that holograms would be like some kind of ridiculous particle emitters because everything in SC is a simulation. Much less ambitious: They were promising the holograms would be the target object rendered into a texture and then projected onto a surface "locally". Like how mirrors and in-game cameras have been done for decades in other games. Somehow, a lot of backers were really impressed by this. This is not new technology. But they still bragged about it. And they still failed to use it. The hologram was conveniently placed behind various tables and objects (so the player wouldn't get too close), and was as others already described, just a regular character with a special shader. Now that might actually be the better choice in a lot of cases. (If you remember the line of code/data which disables shadows). Render-to-texture holograms produce one-dimensional images and not the "HALP ME OBI-WAN" 3D holograms that Chris probably wanted, because that's how they look in the movies, what do you mean a texture is flat? The really embarassing thing wasn't that they weren't using render-to-texture - that was actually a good choice given the circumstances. The embarrasing thing was someone forgetting to disable the shadow, the shadow somehow being cast even though the object wasn't active (which hints at scene object lifecycle/culling being all messed up), and the weird assortment of immovable objects blocking the player from approaching the hologram (perhaps because disabling collision would make it fall through the floor or glitch weirdly).
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Jul 1, 2018 18:47
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A Neurotic Corncob posted:The start of today's AtV is a must watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ4mou4OR4U Also interesting is that A Neurotic Corncob's synopsis of that year old AtV is pretty much also appropriate for this week's RTV.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:50
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