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the real fundamental problem with TY is dug in infantry being immortal anyway
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Jul 1, 2018 16:11
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Forums Terrorist posted:Soviets not having a reserve tank is less of an issue than you think because the T-64 operates pretty happily at 85 points, facing reserve tanks. Likewise the Abrams can do well there as well; the only tank lists that have problems are T-72s (which sit weirdly between main tank and reserve pricing and thus do neither) and Leo 2s (which is like whining King Tigers aren't viable). At 85 sure, but at the 40-65 level which got popular recently tanks are suffering. I actually kind of like it because it makes the "light" tanks pretty common and a lot of the lighter weapons that didn't matter (BMP-1s, dragons, the large based ATGM team in the BTR company) are suddenly meaningful, because you're going to see maybe one person insane enough to run the Leo2 list, but it's also kind of obvious the soviets just don't have a good option at that point level. Forums Terrorist posted:the real fundamental problem with TY is dug in infantry being immortal anyway Concur but I'm not sure the V4 change will help that much, since soviet skill is so bad nothing's getting bombarded anyway.
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Jul 1, 2018 16:31
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The reserve tanks have always been excellent value, even in 100pt games.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:08
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Panzeh posted:The reserve tanks have always been excellent value, even in 100pt games. Yeah, that's true. T-55 spam must be horrific at a point level where they can actually hurt most of their opposition from the front.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:28
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Soviet Naval Infantry or Airborne lists with cheap PT-76 and ASU-85s would be good. On a related note I found a manufacturer of 6mm Zubr Class hovercraft and I want to put one of them on the tabletop.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:36
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Jesus, how big would it be on TT?
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Jul 1, 2018 20:11
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JcDent posted:Jesus, how big would it be on TT? If I did my math right, 8 inches long in 6mm scale. It big.
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Jul 1, 2018 20:26
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spectralent posted:Eastern Front comes with new city-fight rules and a modular city kit for using them in. Is there any more info on this?
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Jul 1, 2018 20:29
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moths posted:Is there any more info on this? Nothing on the rules. The city kit is apparently an unpainted plastic kit and huge; IIRC some of the buildings are 10" tall if I heard right.
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Jul 1, 2018 20:46
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JcDent posted:It's like 2x the old "why don't you play something else if 40k is such a poo poo game" problem in that other, better rulesets exist for Cold War. TY is the best ruleset for CW for the simple reason that it's the only one people play around here. And I find it a lot of fun in spite of it's flaws. Sorry for playing a game you dislike, I guess.   Anyway, I've managed to get some decent painting momentum going - Three Spandrels and three Gvozdikas ready for decals and then weathering, three Gvozdikas done, and four stands of infantry ready for basing. Feels good man.
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Jul 1, 2018 21:02
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Geisladisk posted:TY is the best ruleset for CW for the simple reason that it's the only one people play around here. And I find it a lot of fun in spite of it's flaws. Those look very good, what colors did you usr
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Jul 1, 2018 21:10
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Phi230 posted:Those look very good, what colors did you usr Army Painter Army Green primer followed by a liberal wash of GW Agrax Earthshade, and finally a drybrush of GW Ogryn Camo.
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Jul 1, 2018 21:31
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Phi230 posted:Those look very good, what colors did you USSR Fixed that for you.
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Jul 1, 2018 21:38
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Geisladisk posted:TY is the best ruleset for CW for the simple reason that it's the only one people play around here. And I find it a lot of fun in spite of it's flaws. I don't hate it, I just wish it was cleaned up, especially the scale and command rules. FoaN uses a different points schedule and revises the rules a bit, which looks like it could resolve some of the problems. Hopefully they make similar changes to TY V2.
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Jul 2, 2018 03:09
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Cessna posted:I don't hate it, I just wish it was cleaned up, especially the scale and command rules. FoaN uses a different points schedule and revises the rules a bit, which looks like it could resolve some of the problems. Hopefully they make similar changes to TY V2. Wait; FoaN isn't 100 points?
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Jul 2, 2018 07:41
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I mean, I had planned to play 6mm TY, but I ran outta steam after making 50pts of Soviets (I had started ordering testers of M113s and probably enuff Abramses). And nothing I've heard about since encouraged me. My game would probably look a lot better than this:  Haven't found any good 6mm hinds. I ordered one from Scotia or HnR and it's just a featureless piece of junk.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:09
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JcDent posted:I mean, I had planned to play 6mm TY, but I ran outta steam after making 50pts of Soviets (I had started ordering testers of M113s and probably enuff Abramses). And nothing I've heard about since encouraged me. GHQ make one: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/ac18.html Edit: Here's a European supplier https://www.magistermilitum.com/ac18-mi-24-hind-d.html
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Jul 2, 2018 15:26
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GHQ is cheating 
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Jul 2, 2018 15:33
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JcDent posted:I mean, I had planned to play 6mm TY, but I ran outta steam after making 50pts of Soviets (I had started ordering testers of M113s and probably enuff Abramses). And nothing I've heard about since encouraged me. Although TY's ground scale is way out of wack and it does often look like a parking lot, that game is approximately a million points and is not representative of your average TY game. Also, we get it dude. You dislike TY. Blowing your lid every time someone mentions a game you don't like is tiring.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:57
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What if TY but daisy chains instead of bubbles Bing bong so simple
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Jul 2, 2018 15:58
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What if TY but command ranges measured in feet instead of inches?
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Jul 2, 2018 16:00
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spectralent posted:Wait; FoaN isn't 100 points? There's no set size; from what I've seen floating around out there games look like they come in at 100, 80, or 60 points. 10 Syrian T-62s are 49 points. You could put together a good army with 10 tanks, 10 BMP-1s, and some support (ZSUs, maybe some arty). 4 Israeli Sho't/Centurion 105mms are 36 points. Add some M-113s and you've got an army.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:04
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What if its a chain of reality balls
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Jul 2, 2018 16:04
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Cessna posted:There's no set size; from what I've seen floating around out there games look like they come in at 100, 80, or 60 points. Would be really strange to play a game with T-62s, the also-ran of Cold War MBTs AFAIK
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Jul 2, 2018 16:06
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Still waiting on T-80s
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Jul 2, 2018 16:08
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Ilor posted:What if TY but command ranges measured in feet instead of inches? I think that 6mm is the way to go. Unfortunately, I really like the 15mm scale T-64s I have, and I've already got 15mm buildings and terrain. I just don't want to pack those tanks together like Napoleonic infantry. I'd like to see a game where, say, 10 tanks and some BMPs makes for a good afternoon. Maybe something like the old hex-and-counter MBT/IDF by AH, I dunno...
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Jul 2, 2018 16:10
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JcDent posted:Would be really strange to play a game with T-62s, the also-ran of Cold War MBTs AFAIK If I do get into FoaN I'll re-purpose some T-55s I bought for 'Nam when they had their big 40% off sale.  List: 1 x T-54 HQ 7 x T-54 7 x T-54 4 x ZSU-23-4 9 x BMP-1 (Plus infantry) 6 x Sagger 5 x SU-100 99 points, the only thing I'd need to buy is infantry... Or, alternately, I could go with what I have already for "Cold War Gone Hot 1968." Using BMPs and SU-100s at the same time is a bit of a stretch, but I could drop the SU-100s and add some BM-21s instead. Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 16:12
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Fish and Chimps posted:GHQ make one: http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/ac18.html
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Jul 2, 2018 16:25
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Arquinsiel posted:There's actually not a huge amount of difference between that and the H&R/Grendel one TBH. Aircraft are just kind of not very detailed at that scale. Good to know. I just thought GHQ = the best ever, always. My H&R Danish infantry is passable, but the US infantry I got in a sample pack from GHQ is a drat piece of art.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:53
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The GHQ one is still better, just not really 100% of the price better. The ATGMs on the end of the wings aren't part of the H&R model I got, so I had to make them myself with some spare pins and a bit of plastic packaging from something. It's very much just good enough.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:14
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Cessna posted:There's no set size; from what I've seen floating around out there games look like they come in at 100, 80, or 60 points. That doesn't sound hugely different to TY. 10xT-72 is 47 points, and 64 points has been a popular points level since it was the official tournament level. The saving grace might be the relative potency of AT 19, though if the M60 is still FA 15 then it's probably the exact same matchup as TY. Cessna posted:I think that 6mm is the way to go. See, this works fine, for given values of fine, in TY; 10 T-64s is about right most of the time and they're not AS bad as T-72s. Just the best way to play pact tanks is to bring 30-odd T-72s with the ridiculous cost of DDR tanks. Cessna posted:List: I think you're going to run into the parking lot issue here; those 7 T-54s and 9 BMP-1s are all going to have to share a relatively small command bubble. It's easy to space them out on a kitchen table but when you start trying to get them in cover or maximising shots, usually the most efficient way to do that is to have them cuddle, especially because the T-54/5 just has an inexplicably terrible cross rating so you never ever want to touch bad terrain. spectralent fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 18:16
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spectralent posted:That doesn't sound hugely different to TY. 10xT-72 is 47 points, and 64 points has been a popular points level since it was the official tournament level. The saving grace might be the relative potency of AT 19, though if the M60 is still FA 15 then it's probably the exact same matchup as TY. Yes, the T-62 v. M60 matchup is a bit "samey" to Team Yankee. It would probably play out like T-72s v. M-1s. But I could go off in other directions with other options in ways that TY Soviets can't at this point. I have a lot more options to mix things up if I decide to add other options. Using the Egypt list gives me T-62s, T-54s, JS-IIIs, T-34/85s, Centurions, plus Shermans, PT-76s, SU-100s, etc. If I call them "Syrian" that gives me different stats and more options. I also have anti-tank guns, weird things like Pz-IV bunkers, BTR-152 halftracks. And if my opponent has Israelis, I can also go in a very different direction with Jordanians. So, yeah, T-62 v. M-60 doesn't enthrall me. But add in those other options and it sounds more fun.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:34
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Cessna posted:Yes, the T-62 v. M60 matchup is a bit "samey" to Team Yankee. It would probably play out like T-72s v. M-1s. Oh, sure, agreed. I more mean in the sense of there being less car-park-syndrome. I don't think there's a good solution for that while keeping soviets as battalion scale units and maintaining a "measure from the leader" coherency system. Without going to a smaller model scale, obvs. Reading that again it is depressing how much stuff could be in a soviet list somewhere and isn't. Maybe in the Red Thunder replacement book... spectralent fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 18:35
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spectralent posted:Oh, sure, agreed. I more mean in the sense of there being less car-park-syndrome. I don't think there's a good solution for that while keeping soviets as battalion scale units and maintaining a "measure from the leader" coherency system. Without going to a smaller model scale, obvs. Yeah, true... For some reason the idea of 1967 Egyptians operating in an inflexible formation bothers me less than 1985 3rd Shock Army Soviets. Edit: Also - well, maybe different scales just don't work for some systems and eras. TY seems really cramped, especially the Soviets, and especially the poor Mi-24s. When you can't keep helos in command because the rotors are too big, there's a problem. I think 15mm moderns/Cold War can work, but maybe not with the FoW system. It's entirely possible I'll get some Arab/Israeli stuff, try FoaN, realize it isn't helping, and switch to another system. Say what you will about Battlefront's crappy rules, at least they make some nice 15mm models. Cessna fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 18:44
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Tank platoons in Soviet formations were 3 tanks per platoon (4 in infantry divisions... because reasons), so there really shouldn't be any parking lots. You do want concentrate tanks on the attack - there was a Swede report about BOAR going way too sparse (among many other issuesl but not side to side. ...so GHQ all day erry day. E: i think this same thread said that FoW in 6mm is converting either movement or fire ranges into CM and leaving the other one untouched.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:58
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JcDent posted:Tank platoons in Soviet formations were 3 tanks per platoon (4 in infantry divisions... because reasons), so there really shouldn't be any parking lots. New to Flames of War, 'eh? It should look like this:  In practice it often ends up like this: Cessna fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 19:09
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Even in that picture those Shermans are too close together... single file lads! And space out more! The German deployment could use some work too.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:31
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I was going to mention those 4 Shermans huddling on the road... Would be a good board for CoC.
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Jul 2, 2018 20:09
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JcDent posted:Would be a good board for CoC. I'm a big fan of CoC; I've dropped Bolt Action pretty much entirely. I'm currently working on 1939 Poles, a project I started, then abandoned when I was put off from BA... But CoC doesn't seem to be set up for 15mm modern armor...? Edit: In FoaN: 47 Israeli Sherman 75mms for 100 points. 83 T-34/85s for 99 points. We'll block the Suez with our corpses! Cessna fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 21:30
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Cessna posted:I'm a big fan of CoC; I've dropped Bolt Action pretty much entirely. I'm currently working on 1939 Poles, a project I started, then abandoned when I was put off from BA... CoC shines when it's infantry on infantry, it's not really amazing for tank-on-tank battles. Or even worse, tank-on-infantry battles.
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Jul 2, 2018 21:38
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