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let's just dissolve uranium oxide with nitric acid in some buckets we found laying around
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Jul 1, 2018 23:57
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There’s no funnel between the bucket and flask so I can only assume they just tipped the bucket into the flask Edit Or they dipped the flask into the bucket Kibayasu fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 23:59
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swordfish duelist posted:Yeah, wasnt the elephants foot in Chernobyl something ridiculous like 5 minutes of exposure would give you a dose large enough to kill you in 2 days? Something lile that, and yet there were a few operators who surveyed the foot in the years after the accident with no ill-effects. Radiation is weird like that. The first samples of the foot were collected by shooting it with an AK and fishing out the chunks with a pole.
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Jul 1, 2018 23:59
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Captain Foo posted:holy wtf is that procedure When budget cuts and lack of training get together to have a horrible radioactive baby.
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Jul 1, 2018 23:59
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Fancy_Breakfast posted:Speaking of radiation deaths. I'm sure some of you know if the terrible death of Hisashi Ouichi. this looks like one of the worst deaths imaginable. I mean that picture of him in the hospital bed with his limbs up. He doesn't even look human and he's still alive there 
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Jul 2, 2018 00:14
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Goodyear? https://i.imgur.com/m8Kd7Lh.mp4
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Jul 2, 2018 00:25
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Fancy_Breakfast posted:giant vat of shite piss cum and blood, gently caress having to scuba dive into that poo poo. Zero visibility. For the president of the United States of America, it was a Tuesday.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:26
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Fancy_Breakfast posted:Speaking of radiation deaths. I'm sure some of you know if the terrible death of Hisashi Ouichi. gently caress every doctor that tortured this guy what the everloving gently caress
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Jul 2, 2018 00:30
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DrPossum posted:gently caress every doctor that tortured this guy but think of the overtime pay
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Jul 2, 2018 00:31
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quote:After being treated for a week, Ouchi managed to say, “I can’t take it any more… I am not a guinea pig”. However, the doctors kept treating him and taking measures to keep him alive, which only ensured a very slow and very painful death. 
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Jul 2, 2018 00:32
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i imagine someday in the future doctors will just run over pedestrians for the extra work
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Jul 2, 2018 00:34
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I was waiting for a third one to show up out of nowhere.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:37
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Sagebrush posted:A solar flare or other major stellar event. Well Anatoli Bugorski survived - they thought he had taken enough radiation that he was definitely dead, but he lived long enough that they realised he wasn't going to succumb to it. He lost his hearing in one ear, suffered major nerve damage to his face and gets exhausted more quickly from mental activity, but has lived a long and fruitful life despite getting 76 GeV in the face.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:37
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Japanese doctor 1: "How long do you think we can keep this man with no skin or chromosomes alive?" Japanese doctor 2: "What the gently caress is wrong with you?! Don't speculate! Measure it directly by any means possible. Baka" edit: Japanese doctor 1: "OK, let's take this poo poo international" DrPossum fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 00:38
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DrPossum posted:Japanese doctor 1: "How long do you think we can keep this man with no skin or chromosomes alive?" Well you know there were other countries involved in this as well, the article did mention they were using medicines that were not available in Japan. So someone was out there wanting to know if it was possible to save someone in that state. Zil fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 00:40
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A large part of the entire medical field is built upon the suffering of SOMEONE. poo poo is all theoretical until you get a chance to actually test poo poo out, and how often do you get a chance for this? It is cruel, inhumane, and horrifying, and absolutely 100% necessary.
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Jul 2, 2018 00:46
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The poo poo people survive. Concentrated hydrofluoric acid enema
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Jul 2, 2018 01:00
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Captain Foo posted:holy wtf is that procedure Looks like it was a management directed one. E: DrPossum posted:gently caress every doctor that tortured this guy I think I remember reading somewhere that they kept him in a medically induced coma, so slightly better, but still monstrous. EE: Yeah. "Ouchi said, “I can’t take it anymore. I am not a guinea pig.” He was in extreme pain despite medication. At this time, he was put on a ventilator and kept in a medically induced coma." -Zydeco- fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 01:01
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Say Nothing posted:The poo poo people survive. You failed to mention that he was high on cocaine.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:08
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SmokaDustbowl posted:lol "Ouchi" is a pretty appropriate name Abbott: You know they give these nuclear plant workers funny names these days. ...2min of setup... Costello: I know he's in pain but what's the guy's name working at the ractor?
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Jul 2, 2018 01:15
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In that case sign me the gently caress up
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Jul 2, 2018 01:15
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BattleMaster posted:There's no documented dose of radiation that kills you faster than several days later, so even if diving into a reactor pool was particularly dangerous you would survive just fine until your body begins to rot later Initially they were hoping to see if some fancy new stuff like them stem cells would be a silver bullet for radiation exposure, but it should have been ended way before 3 months.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:15
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Johnny Aztec posted:A large part of the entire medical field is built upon the suffering of SOMEONE. Yeah that’s basically the argument people used to defend Nazi and Japanese human experiments in WW2
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Jul 2, 2018 01:35
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A brutal reality is that a lot of breakthroughs in medical science were due to vivisection and atrocities 
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Jul 2, 2018 01:41
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Say Nothing posted:The poo poo people survive. quote:This case demonstrates that a hydrofluoric acid enema can cause fulminant acute colitis and chronic colonic strictures.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:43
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Fallom posted:Yeah that’s basically the argument people used to defend Nazi and Japanese human experiments in WW2 sneakyfrog posted:A brutal reality is that a lot of breakthroughs in medical science were due to vivisection and atrocities Those experiments intentionally injured and killed perfectly healthy people and didn't actually produce any usable data.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:48
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Lurking Haro posted:Those experiments intentionally injured and killed perfectly healthy people and didn't actually produce any usable data. Yeah the Nazis would probably do a better job today
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Jul 2, 2018 01:52
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I don't know enough on this topic firsthand to even remotely start. Either way it's horrific
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Jul 2, 2018 01:53
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Memento posted:Well Anatoli Bugorski survived - they thought he had taken enough radiation that he was definitely dead, but he lived long enough that they realised he wasn't going to succumb to it. He lost his hearing in one ear, suffered major nerve damage to his face and gets exhausted more quickly from mental activity, but has lived a long and fruitful life despite getting 76 GeV in the face.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:09
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PetraCore posted:I suppose that's the thing about how radiation kills you - it's linked to mutation, obviously, and there's a lot of mutations that are going to be silent or damaging but survivable. It's just rolling the dice over and over and over where the wrong rolls are death. Some people are bound to get lucky. no mutations are what can lead to cancer, not what kill you in the short term. the more immediately cause of acute radiation syndrome is stem cell death. the reason this guy didn't die is because the dose was very localized rather than a full body dose; it didn't for example blast his gut or most of his bone marrow which are the more dangerous places to get dosed
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Jul 2, 2018 02:12
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That said, while I believe ethically Ouchi should have been granted assisted suicide and not a medically induced coma, I don't imagine any of the doctors working on him were happy. The problem with the medically induced coma is that it's hard to judge if that's truly cutting the person involved off from pain, iirc, but by the time he requested euthanasia it could be argued that he wasn't in a lucid state of mind to really go over the pros and cons due to the horrific pain of dying. I still think it should have been respected, I just think it has to be acknowledged that the people making that decision weren't monstrous sadists, they did what they could to eliminate his suffering, and what they learned was important. Whether or not you think that makes it worth it depends on your model of ethics and on whether you think potential future results that did pan out justify a choice at a time where that is still unclear. Like, it could easily have been that the damage Ouchi suffered was so severe and unique that keeping him alive would have produced data that was applicable to pretty much nothing else. Do we know if they went to his next of kin to make the decision? That's usually who gets to make the call in cases where someone's mental state is compromised, iirc.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:17
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Lurking Haro posted:Those experiments intentionally injured and killed perfectly healthy people and didn't actually produce any usable data. A lot of what we know about internal dosing of radionuclides like Radium andPlutonium came from accidental or intentional dosing of humans .To say the data was useless is too simple an answer.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:20
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BattleMaster posted:no So the stem cell death is a delayed cause of death because it only shows up once your old cells have depleted and need to be replaced, right? And depending on what got hit that's going to have different effects? I can see why the bone marrow would be a very bad spot to get dosed, considering all the cell production that still happens in there. Is there a lot of cell differentiation in the gut? Sorry for the stupid question, I'm genuinely interested.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:21
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There was a good post on the last page, I think.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:22
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Blindeye posted:A lot of what we know about internal dosing of radionuclides like Radium andPlutonium came from accidental or intentional dosing of humans
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Jul 2, 2018 02:22
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TTerrible posted:There was a good post on the last page, I think.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:24
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PetraCore posted:Agreed, I just think saying the data turned out to be useful also ends up being too simple an answer, even if you're basing your ethics on the greater good. Future results are hard to predict and immediate suffering is easy to see. Not in Plutonium; that's why there were voluntary and involuntary (men and women assumed to have <1 year to live) subjects who were given material to see where it absorbs to develop means of creating industrial hygiene practices during the Msnhattan project. It was a terrible decision, but oddly enough I have yet to find any of those individuals having had a death easily attributable to it. The one person given a massive dose after a car crash lived into his 80s, absorbing over his lifetime the equivalent of 2-3 times Ouichi's dose with no ill-effects. Radiation damage in chronic cases is probabilistic. Blindeye fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 02:27
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PetraCore posted:Thank you, I just looked at that. I'm wondering exactly what cells get replaced in the gut so fast, but if BattleMaster doesn't want to answer I can look it up. I understand the bone marrow, hair, and skin stuff. The intestinal epithelium is renewed every 4-6 days.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:34
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PetraCore posted:Oh. I'm still just an undergraduate in biology and we didn't have any classes on radiation damage so I've mostly just heard about it in the mutating DNA and why that's very bad if it's happening a lot way, and the cancer stuff. the intestinal lining is a really rough place and lining cells at the top of the villi constantly slough off and need to be replaced. the stem cells in the crypts between villi produce cells that differentiate into villi lining cells and gradually make their way to the top of the villi. without replacement, the villia begin to flatten and disappear. I assume this has really bad long term consequences for your health, but what tends to kill you more immediately is severe infection as bacteria in your intestinal tract are able to invade the rest of your body through the compromised intestinal lining. a full body dose of about >10 Gy results in gastrointestinal syndrome that is fatal in about 3 to 10 days in most subjects. a full body dose of >2.5 Gy results in hematopoietic syndrome where your marrow got dosed enough that your supply of white and red blood cells and platelets is diminished enough to be perilous but not a guaranteed death; the LD50 dose is about 5.3 Gy and deaths peak at about 30 days in. Note that doses big enough to cause gastrointestinal syndrome also cause hematopoietic syndrome, it's just the intestinal damage is the more immediate concern that results in death. the depletion of blood cells probably doesn't help though. there are no recorded instances of someone surviving gastrointestinal syndrome, so that's why a full-body dose of about 10 Gy is considered to be a guaranteed death BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 02:36
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BattleMaster posted:the intestinal lining is a really rough place and lining cells at the top of the villi constantly slough off and need to be replaced. the stem cells in the crypts between villi produce cells that differentiate into villi lining cells and gradually make their way to the top of the villi. EDIT: Well, and now that I think about, an inability to absorb nutrients intestinally could be treated with IV nutrition. It wouldn't be pleasant, but it'd be treatable.The bleeding and massive infection, not so much.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:38
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