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eeenmachine posted:I see some reports that the 5,000th Model 3 wasn't 100% complete until hours after the "deadline". Someone put an asterisk on that Elon tweet! At the very least you're going to end up with the equivalent of a DeLorean, or a Bricklin, but more likely an AMC Javelin or Matador.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:06
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Finger Prince posted:At the very least you're going to end up with the equivalent of a DeLorean, or a Bricklin, but more likely an AMC Javelin or Matador. Cruising the beach today and hearing "I've never seen a Tesla like THAT!" Makes me want to keep it. Wonder how prevalent the R2 will be compared to the original.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:20
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The Ioniq PHEV as far as I know doesn't exist outside of the northeast and CA
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Jul 2, 2018 02:37
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eeenmachine posted:Someone needs to print up some "Abolish ICE Vehicles" bumper stickers. I wonder how quickly your car would get keyed... Ooh that's clever, I love it
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Jul 2, 2018 02:46
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Cockmaster posted:Who would have thought that getting set up to produce thousands of cars per week would be so expensive?
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Jul 2, 2018 04:00
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eeenmachine posted:Cruising the beach today and hearing "I've never seen a Tesla like THAT!" Makes me want to keep it. Wonder how prevalent the R2 will be compared to the original. If you aren't having any mechanical issues or unusual battery degradation, I'd keep it. Hell, if you ever decide to get rid of it, throw me a PM with a price. They're neat cars and will be a piece of history.
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Jul 2, 2018 04:00
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Drove 32 miles today electric only. Did errands in the morning then charged up during the day then drove to fireworks and back. drat this just feels good man. The AWD from the EVO came in handy did some mild off roading to park for the fireworks, complete confidence.
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Jul 2, 2018 04:04
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Koirhor posted:The Ioniq PHEV as far as I know doesn't exist outside of the northeast and CA I saw one the other day that said "electric" on the back. Was that the PHEV or BEV? Seattle area, forget which state the tag was.
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Jul 2, 2018 04:17
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Isn't part of the issue that Teslas by a car production standard just, not innovative? I mean in the sense that they are mass produced electric cars sure but they are using outdated laptop cells (Albeit with newer formulations) that no one else is using good reasons and construction techniques that are basically ancient by high end automobile standards. Which is all fine if they were using those older technologies to drive down cost and increase production but the reality is they are struggling to build expensive cars that without their electric drivetrains MB/BMW/VW wouldn't even consider as modern platforms. Three Olives fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 04:27
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Oh, hey I guess I stirred up some poo poo, I don't want to ruin this thread it's a good resource. I'm happy to admit I'm a Tesla fanboy and talk about it, but it's so hard since it seems like you are 100% wanting Tesla to make it or 100% want them to fail. Difficult circumstances to have a calm, rational conversation around. Anyhow, I drove down to the oil refinery (Commerce City, CO) this evening. Pics are not as good as I wanted but it was fun anyhow:  
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Jul 2, 2018 05:14
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I want Tesla to make it but I also want them to stop making some of the stupid choices that they keep on pushing at and I want Elon Musk to stop being a douchebag (the last two may be related)
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Jul 2, 2018 05:22
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Post beautiful EVs ITT Kinda bummed I've never done a real shoot in all the years I've had mine.
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Jul 2, 2018 06:23
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eeenmachine posted:Post beautiful EVs ITT Saw this one yesterday. 
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Jul 2, 2018 06:43
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Nostalgic Cashew posted:Saw this one yesterday. Holy crap, I've always wanted to drive one of those! Can't imagine they'd do very well in a collision with an amurrican SUV/truck though.
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Jul 2, 2018 07:16
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RZA Encryption posted:I saw one the other day that said "electric" on the back. Was that the PHEV or BEV? Seattle area, forget which state the tag was. BEV. Best EV.
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Jul 2, 2018 08:19
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Three Olives posted:Isn't part of the issue that Teslas by a car production standard just, not innovative? I mean in the sense that they are mass produced electric cars sure but they are using outdated laptop cells (Albeit with newer formulations) that no one else is using good reasons and construction techniques that are basically ancient by high end automobile standards. But from what I've read the batteries are good, and construction techniques are fine?
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Jul 2, 2018 13:08
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El Grillo posted:I vaguely remember there might be an issue with one part of the 3's chassis in terms of potential future reliability issues due to the material it was made out of(??) Also the quality of their interiors isn't as good as equiv The pictures from the S accident where the cast control arms had snapped and looked really bubbly?
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Jul 2, 2018 14:38
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RZA Encryption posted:I saw one the other day that said "electric" on the back. Was that the PHEV or BEV? Seattle area, forget which state the tag was. That's the BEV I've got the (non plugin) Hybrid and really like it.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:58
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First Tesla I ever saw was when Fresh 'N Easy (the Tesco market that tried a go in the U.S.) was around. Someone had a roadster with colors themed to the market in the lot one day. I wondered how they ever charged the thing.kimbo305 posted:The pictures from the S accident where the cast control arms had snapped and looked really bubbly?
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Jul 2, 2018 15:04
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Three Olives posted:Isn't part of the issue that Teslas by a car production standard just, not innovative? I mean in the sense that they are mass produced electric cars sure but they are using outdated laptop cells (Albeit with newer formulations) that no one else is using good reasons and construction techniques that are basically ancient by high end automobile standards. Tesla biggest problem is that it has tried to build a highly automated manufacturing process that is unrealistic, expensive and in reality less efficient. There is a reason the largest automakers in the world still rely on a large portion of human labor to build their cars: because it works. http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robots-are-killing-it-2018-3
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Jul 2, 2018 16:08
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eeenmachine posted:Someone needs to print up some "Abolish ICE Vehicles" bumper stickers. I wonder how quickly your car would get keyed... I will put one on my M5
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Jul 2, 2018 16:11
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Tesla platforms are fine it's the manufacturing process and the fact that they tried to standardize a production model as they were ramping production. It's all solvable and it was all avoidable.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:14
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FilthyImp posted:Wasnt that from some weirdo that just reposts that photo all over and makes cray claims about being in Tesla accidents?? Yes.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:21
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Nostalgic Cashew posted:Saw this one yesterday. What the hell am I looking at here?
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Jul 2, 2018 16:21
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El Grillo posted:I don't think so. As I understand it they have had issues with build quality, and I vaguely remember there might be an issue with one part of the 3's chassis in terms of potential future reliability issues due to the material it was made out of(??) Also the quality of their interiors isn't as good as equivalent priced models from established manufacturers. Someone will probably correct me but my understanding is using cylindrical cells for a car is less than ideal for a number of reasons including energy density, cooling, safety, etc. As far as Tesla's overall goals right now which include fixed storage the fact that it is proven technology that Panasonic can poo poo out a lot of cells cheaply it's, fine, but it's far from ideal if you are building batteries for an electric car. NY Times posted:In another bid to push the limits of technology, Tesla at times pulls robots off the line and tests them operating at speeds greater than specified by the supplier, said Charles Mwangi, Tesla’s director of body engineering. This seems like a fine plan to reliably produce high quality cars.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:23
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Three Olives posted:This seems like a fine plan to reliably produce high quality cars. It's absolutely silly because the bottleneck to producing more cars has almost never been the cycle time of process robots.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:34
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What the hell am I looking at here? I’d guess it’s a Tango t600. 
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Jul 2, 2018 17:25
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Three Olives posted:Someone will probably correct me but my understanding is using cylindrical cells for a car is less than ideal for a number of reasons including energy density, cooling, safety, etc. As far as Tesla's overall goals right now which include fixed storage the fact that it is proven technology that Panasonic can poo poo out a lot of cells cheaply it's, fine, but it's far from ideal if you are building batteries for an electric car. That’s my understanding, but I’m far from an engineer. The goal was to settle on a standardized cell type to be used across platforms in the hope of it becoming commoditized and driving prices way down (as you might see in the semiconductor business). It wasn’t a bad idea at the time but I don’t think it worked for them as well as they’d have liked. Battery costs are stubborn.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:31
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FilthyImp posted:Wasnt that from some weirdo that just reposts that photo all over and makes cray claims about being in Tesla accidents?? The craziness of the person posting photos doesn’t change the poorly cast parts.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:39
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blugu64 posted:The craziness of the person posting photos doesn’t change the poorly cast parts. one person posting the same photo over and over again doesn't indicate a trend, though, just a single incident. it's possible that tesla control arms are fundamentally flawed or poorly made and it's also possible there was a bad batch and the rest are fine. i base my opinions on the data we have, and that situation in particular isn't one in which we have enough data to really make a sweeping judgement. the fact that tesla has made owners sign an NDA before agreeing to perform warranty work (i.e. "yes this was broken out of the factory but you can't tell anyone under penalty of lawsuit") really complicates the matter, though. that's an example of elon's douchebaggery that i was referring to, btw.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:48
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Agronox posted:That’s my understanding, but I’m far from an engineer. The goal was to settle on a standardized cell type to be used across platforms in the hope of it becoming commoditized and driving prices way down (as you might see in the semiconductor business). Everyone uses cylindrical cells. They’re the best design overall when you take into account cost/weight/density/safety/
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Jul 2, 2018 17:50
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Everyone uses cylindrical cells. They’re the best design overall when you take into account cost/weight/density/safety/ No they don’t. Bolt, Leaf, i3 are all pouch. Actually I don’t think anyone goes cylindrical at all now other than Tesla (somebody correct me if I’m wrong on this, can’t look it up at the moment).
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Jul 2, 2018 17:55
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Agronox posted:No they don’t. Bolt, Leaf, i3 are all pouch. Actually I don’t think anyone goes cylindrical at all now other than Tesla (somebody correct me if I’m wrong on this, can’t look it up at the moment). Oops, you’re right. I’m wrong.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:04
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Sagebrush posted:it's possible that tesla control arms are fundamentally flawed or poorly made and it's also possible there was a bad batch and the rest are fine. Agreed on that latter point. The unknowable question is how big that bad batch was, and if they were able to get them off the road.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:07
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Oops, you’re right. I’m wrong. No worries. Now if someone can explain to me the difference between “pouch” and “prismatic”...
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Jul 2, 2018 18:23
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Doesn't Tesla have the lowest battery costs of any manufacturer combined with the highest capacities? Their cooling and management (cooling ribbons between the cylindrical cells) have also provided better longevity than anyone expected. Not trying to fanboy, just honestly doubting they'd go back and do anything differently if they could start from scratch. I could be totally wrong though.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:50
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eeenmachine posted:Doesn't Tesla have the lowest battery costs of any manufacturer combined with the highest capacities? Unknown. They haven’t disclosed cost specifics. (Nor have others.) Pack costs can be significant too and I don’t think they’ll ever tell us what those are, as it’s trade secret.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:12
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Agronox posted:Unknown. They haven’t disclosed cost specifics. (Nor have others.) Speculation from Jun this year that they will achieve a cell cost of $100/kWh by the end of this year. electrek posted:In comparison, GM is currently buying battery cells from LG Chem for the Chevy Bolt EV at $145 per kWh and Audi says that it is buying batteries at $114 per kWh for its upcoming e-tron quattro that has yet to launch. And with the caveat of being an Elon prediction: '"electrek" posted:As for the cost at the pack level, Musk sees Tesla achieving that important price point of $100 per kWh for the overall battery pack in less than two years. https://electrek.co/2018/06/09/tesla-battery-energy-density-cost-breakthroughs/
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Jul 2, 2018 19:23
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When it comes to Tesla discussion, we really should act like Electrek doesn't exist. The editor is rabidly pro-Musk. He had a 40k/year department store job in Canada before starting the site and glomming specifically onto Tesla. He makes a ton of money off of Tesla referrals (80-100k I think) and doesn't really disclose it on Electrek's website.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:27
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eeenmachine posted:And with the caveat of being an Elon prediction: That just sounds like "stuff he hopes comes true". A 30% increase in battery density in two years. Sure, sure. Why not!
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Jul 2, 2018 19:34
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