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Cowcaster posted:if you wouldn't trust an internet rando to criticize your performance then why would you trust their feedback of giving you a scratch and sniff sticker for a job well done Random acts of undeserved kindness are valuable and random acts of useless criticism aren’t.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:54
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Cowcaster posted:if you wouldn't trust an internet rando to criticize your performance then why would you trust their feedback of giving you a scratch and sniff sticker for a job well done Those are two completely different skill sets. It's the difference between IQ and EQ.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:56
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think people will penalize you for actual constructive advice. The keyword is constructive. What I'm saying is, it's much much easier to get people to listen to "we can exploit the other team's weakness X by doing Y" than "this teammate isn't doing his or her job well enough." And, in my experience, it's much easier to personally identify the former than the latter. Also I love your username, if we ever play together I'll give you a free Shot Caller endo
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Jul 2, 2018 16:59
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SciFiDownBeat posted:The keyword is constructive. What I'm saying is, it's much much easier to get people to listen to "we can exploit the other team's weakness X by doing Y" than "this teammate isn't doing his or her job well enough." And, in my experience, it's much easier to personally identify the former than the latter. Coaching 101 is to tell your athletes what to do, instead of what not to do
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Jul 2, 2018 17:03
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SKULL.GIF posted:Coaching 101 is to tell your athletes what to do, instead of what not to do I thought Coaching 101 was yelling at them red-faced? 
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Jul 2, 2018 17:09
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Don't waste time coaching your teammates. Focus on your own game and being the best player you can be. You're not gonna fix some player's game in one random comp game and you might not queue again with them all night so what is even the point. Plus you're at the same SR they are so unless you're smurfing you're making just as many mistakes as they are anyways.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:31
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SciFiDownBeat posted:That's good though? At my level (silver-gold) I wouldn't trust myself to give useful criticism on a VOD, let alone to a teammate during gameplay (and often in an entirely different role). And I certainly don't give any weight to anything my teammates have to say that isn't about themselves or their own play. Some of the time, sure, but there's stuff that's really obvious to the rest of the team but may not be obvious to the player involved, and they need to be told. Moira forgetting that they're a support (I am super sympathetic to this), suicide Rein, pursuit Orisa, maximum-effective-range DVa. These are basically overwatch tropes and the players that engage in them need to hear that they are loving the rest of the team. It's been noticeable recently - I think there are a lot of people who are using the group function and are picking a class they don't really play just to get into a team. I'm not criticising that, but people need to be told, as gently as possible, that the way they're playing is sort of away from base level competence for simple and eminently fixable reasons. e2: just thought of another reason for people being seemingly new to their heroes. People are taking a tank slot because they play main tank + roadhog and the person shooting for shot caller asks them to switch to DVa. And, instead of screaming "I will loving find you and cut you" into their mic, they do it because everyone's niceynice now. e: Ravenfood posted:Yelling that your hitscans can't kill the Pharah that keeps killing you isn't helpful if you can't see what they're dealing with instead. Yeah, this is bad and unheplful - killing a decent Pharah is not easy even if you have the right gun - and what you say is good, I think. Coming up with a plan that enables that hero to do their job - like supporting the soldier trying to kill the pharah with shields and damage boost and so on is much more effective than bitching. But there are the soldier players who just aren't trying to shoot the pharah in the first place. They have to be told "look, we really need you to do this thing" which is, however nicely you put it, criticism. Perfectly Safe fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 17:38
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durrneez posted:I don’t think it’s good that people are reluctant to criticize bad plays. I feel like if you have half a brain at any rank, you can tell that your dps can’t kill poo poo or that your Mercy rezzes at inopportune times. It tends to be more suggestions now, like "we may need to switch up the comp here" or " _____ hero may have a tough time on this map" which has the nice effect of making that player less defensive and more willing to discuss. LFG seems to self-select for people who want to try to be good teammates. And the trying is the big change. I have not seen very many slampick Widowmakers in LFG either. . .
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Jul 2, 2018 17:40
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I honestly hate getting endorsement from bad teams. You should not be allow to give endorsements if the team gets rolled within a minute on defense.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:50
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Rirse posted:I honestly hate getting endorsement from bad teams. You should not be allow to give endorsements if the team gets rolled within a minute on defense. Stop saying "good try though fellas" into the mic.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:52
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Rirse posted:I honestly hate getting endorsement from bad teams. You should not be allow to give endorsements if the team gets rolled within a minute on defense. And I always felt it was rude to say anything when you just rolled over the other team. It honestly wasn't, it was a one-sided stomp. Being rolled over and congratulating the other team on their win, yeah, but crushing the other team and saying "gg" seems like you're basically just announcing how good the game for you, which is lovely. Anyway.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:53
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Perfectly Safe posted:Yeah, this is bad and unheplful - killing a decent Pharah is not easy even if you have the right gun - and what you say is good, I think. Coming up with a plan that enables that hero to do their job - like supporting the soldier trying to kill the pharah with shields and damage boost and so on is much more effective than bitching. But there are the soldier players who just aren't trying to shoot the pharah in the first place. They have to be told "look, we really need you to do this thing" which is, however nicely you put it, criticism. No matter the role you’re playing you can phrase that differently. If you’re a tank you ask the soldier where he wants to take up a position to attack the Pharah, if you’re a healer you say you’ll pocket them, if you’re a DPS say you’ll try and hit whoever is on the ground while they concentrate on the Pharah.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:55
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Have people generally been having better games since the changes? I have (even came away from a couple of losses going "gently caress yeah, that was awesome!") but experiences vary.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:55
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Rirse posted:I honestly hate getting endorsement from bad teams. You should not be allow to give endorsements if the team gets rolled within a minute on defense. They should replace them with new categories "Thrower", "One-Trick" and "KYS". For opponents you can give only "Aim-hacking"
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Jul 2, 2018 17:57
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Also, when those changes to damage drop off go through, playing Pharah is going to suck. e: And Pharah is easily my favorite/most played hero, so yeah. Dammit. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 17:59
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Ravenfood posted:Also, when those changes to damage drop off go through, playing Pharah is going to suck. yea this will be a really bad patch for pharah. hanzo's still ridiculous too and even mei can snipe you out of the air now, so making the hitscan heroes better is just icing on the cake
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Jul 2, 2018 18:01
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Cowcaster posted:i think you get a loot box every time your level goes up, and then an occasional lootbox if your level stays at 5 or whatever the max is I didn't pay attention when I got to level 2, but I got to level 3 this weekend and I didn't get anything out of it, so no.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:04
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Max Awfuls posted:I didn't pay attention when I got to level 2, but I got to level 3 this weekend and I didn't get anything out of it, so no. hmm, this made me look it up. it doesn't say anything on the official playoverwatch page but on the overwatch wiki page it has a sentence about "periodic rewards" and a mock-up screenshot of roadhog getting a loot box. so either it was something they thought about adding but didn't, or maybe something they'll add in the future?
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Jul 2, 2018 18:09
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Cowcaster posted:hmm, this made me look it up. it doesn't say anything on the official playoverwatch page but on the overwatch wiki page it has a sentence about "periodic rewards" and a mock-up screenshot of roadhog getting a loot box. so either it was something they thought about adding but didn't, or maybe something they'll add in the future? I'd rather they give something endorsement specific rather than lootboxes, when I'm out of seasonal events I don't get anything out of regular lootboxes anymore because I already have every spray and voice line so it's nothing but duplicates and the ocasional emote every 20 boxes. I can only imagine a lot of people are already in these circumstances as well.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:18
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Manatee Cannon posted:yea this will be a really bad patch for pharah. hanzo's still ridiculous too and even mei can snipe you out of the air now, so making the hitscan heroes better is just icing on the cake i've dealt with pharah being undesirable in the past, but if there's one thing i'm mad about it's that they finally put a ground pound move in the game but gave it to the hamster instead
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Jul 2, 2018 18:18
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ground pound is like the opposite of what pharah needs since if she's on the ground, she's half useless and almost guaranteed to die
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Jul 2, 2018 18:24
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Manatee Cannon posted:ground pound is like the opposite of what pharah needs since if she's on the ground, she's half useless and almost guaranteed to die
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Jul 2, 2018 18:28
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Cowcaster posted:hmm, this made me look it up. it doesn't say anything on the official playoverwatch page but on the overwatch wiki page it has a sentence about "periodic rewards" and a mock-up screenshot of roadhog getting a loot box. so either it was something they thought about adding but didn't, or maybe something they'll add in the future?
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Jul 2, 2018 18:32
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Manatee Cannon posted:ground pound is like the opposite of what pharah needs since if she's on the ground, she's half useless and almost guaranteed to die counterpoint: it would be fun also everything ravenfood said
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Jul 2, 2018 18:34
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dropping yourself into the enemy team and immediately dying is fun? I don't think cratering yourself to avoid hitscan is even particularly useful. you should be playing around cover in the air in the first place, so if you need to drop fast to safety then you already hosed up. you're also wasting the active you used to get into the air, so now you're stuck on the ground waiting for it to come back. it's not like they won't know where you are either since pharah's slow
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Jul 2, 2018 18:38
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hobbesmaster posted:No matter the role you’re playing you can phrase that differently. If you’re a tank you ask the soldier where he wants to take up a position to attack the Pharah, if you’re a healer you say you’ll pocket them, if you’re a DPS say you’ll try and hit whoever is on the ground while they concentrate on the Pharah. This is just being oblique about the whole business. It doesn't convey "look, this is primarily your responsibility". And it's still effectively criticism. In any case, I don't mean criticism as necessarily nasty or whatever; the thrust of what I was saying is that I don't think that people should be afraid to say, fairly directly, "look, [aspect of gameplay] isn't working out" just because we have an endorsement system. The tanks should be able to say "I'm not getting enough healing" without being scared to because everyone's got to be jolly cooperation all the time. And it could be that the tanks are loving up by going in without the supports or never turning around or whatever, but someone's got to say something in order for the problems to be sorted out.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:39
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Manatee Cannon posted:dropping yourself into the enemy team and immediately dying is fun? ok i will no longer jokingly suggest things that sound like they would be fun to do
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Jul 2, 2018 18:42
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I remember jeff kaplan saying something like rewards will be distributed "at random intervals," so as to discourage farming.Perfectly Safe posted:Some of the time, sure, but there's stuff that's really obvious to the rest of the team but may not be obvious to the player involved, and they need to be told. Moira forgetting that they're a support (I am super sympathetic to this), suicide Rein, pursuit Orisa, maximum-effective-range DVa. These are basically overwatch tropes and the players that engage in them need to hear that they are loving the rest of the team. Honest question, are you GM or higher? Do you have coaching experience? Do you do pugs? Unless you have an in-depth and extensive knowledge of how the game should be played, who are you to speak in such broad hypotheticals? There certainly are dps moiras who shouldn't be dps-ing, but sometimes they should if they're focusing the right target. There certainly are aggressive reins who shouldn't be charging, but sometimes they need to take some space immediately and believe they have the support to follow through on it. If you see a moira or a rein make a play that doesn't follow the rigid definition of how to play the game that you've set up, and they're past level 100, you need to trust that they are doing the best they can with the information they have. Everything is contextual, and in a single game, you have a fraction of the perspective unless you have near perfect game awareness. And if one claims that the tanks and supports are chasing kills, it's possible they're getting the sense that the dps can't confirm them. quote:It's been noticeable recently - I think there are a lot of people who are using the group function and are picking a class they don't really play just to get into a team. I'm not criticising that, but people need to be told, as gently as possible, that the way they're playing is sort of away from base level competence for simple and eminently fixable reasons. Making a decision for the benefit of the team, even if it's the wrong decision, will always be better than tilting and toxifying the game. That includes switching if asked, and it also includes saying "No, I trust my hog play more than my dva play/I think hog is better here than dva." The point is that endos and LFG create a forum for those discussions to take place. quote:Yeah, this is bad and unheplful - killing a decent Pharah is not easy even if you have the right gun - and what you say is good, I think. Coming up with a plan that enables that hero to do their job - like supporting the soldier trying to kill the pharah with shields and damage boost and so on is much more effective than bitching. But there are the soldier players who just aren't trying to shoot the pharah in the first place. They have to be told "look, we really need you to do this thing" which is, however nicely you put it, criticism. I don't know where you'd see this above silver. Even in my silver games I get people suggesting dps switch to soldier to deal with pharah (with mixed results, depending on various factors). A lot of things you're saying - moira not healing, rein solo charging - sounds like bronze or silver level stuff. If you see it above that it's likely that those players are knowingly taking risks and not just functionally impaired. kalel fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 18:45
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Perfectly Safe posted:This is just being oblique about the whole business. It doesn't convey "look, this is primarily your responsibility". And it's still effectively criticism. In any case, I don't mean criticism as necessarily nasty or whatever; the thrust of what I was saying is that I don't think that people should be afraid to say, fairly directly, "look, [aspect of gameplay] isn't working out" just because we have an endorsement system. The tanks should be able to say "I'm not getting enough healing" without being scared to because everyone's got to be jolly cooperation all the time. And it could be that the tanks are loving up by going in without the supports or never turning around or whatever, but someone's got to say something in order for the problems to be sorted out. One phrasing is likely to tilt your team, one is likely to encourage them. Nobody reacts well to "you suck at this thing, do something else" but will to "I trust you to do this thing so much that I am going to double down on it"
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Jul 2, 2018 18:48
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If mcree or soldier pop ult or even sometimes dva bombs in oren areas, being on the ground instantly could've saved me a lot
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Jul 2, 2018 18:50
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SciFiDownBeat posted:I don't know where you'd see this above silver. Even in my silver games I get people suggesting dps switch to soldier to deal with pharah (with mixed results, depending on various factors). A lot of things you're saying - moira not healing, rein solo charging - sounds like bronze or silver level stuff. If you see it above that it's likely that those players are knowingly taking risks and not just functionally impaired. I average out around 2800 and still have games where all of this happens.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:58
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for the sake of not being snide, yes, i do think pharah being able to ground pound would be fun to do, even if not necessarily optimal. i've played games like borderlands the pre-sequel where gaining altitude and then expending it with a ground pound was a satisfying move. no, overwatch isn't 1:1 comparable to something like borderlands, but if designed around it could be a fun addition to her kit. her concussive blast is on such an inordinately long cooldown that most of the time you play as her all it feels like you're doing is flying up and then shooting rockets down. adding some complexity could be fun. if you strapped a ground pound on her right now with no changes to her kit then yeah sure it'd just be a situational escape tool for the pro players. for us slumming down in gold it could be a fun way to finish off an opponent you can't quite land a rocket on even if it does expose you to danger. i just look at her touchdown highlight intro and it's such a cool character fantasy thing i wish it's something i could do even if just for style points
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Jul 2, 2018 19:03
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Currently I don't think theres much benefit to the system beyond reducing toxicity, however the game has been a breathe of fresh air since they added it in. The only real benefit is that people can now set the min requirement of endorsement level to their groups, and anyone who gets reported gets their level completely reset. So it can help people to avoid particularly toxic players. That said, anyone who plays tank/support probably will be swimming in endorsements.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:07
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Kaubocks posted:for the sake of not being snide, yes, i do think pharah being able to ground pound would be fun to do, even if not necessarily optimal. you could simulate this by pointing down, letting go of space bar, and loosing a rocket right before you hit the ground DeliciousCookie posted:Currently I don't think theres much benefit to the system beyond reducing toxicity, that's a funny way to say that the system is doing exactly what it was intended to do
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Jul 2, 2018 19:25
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Being able to give a "Tough Opponent" commendation to opposing players wouldn't be the worst thing.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:32
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What would be the point of that...
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Jul 2, 2018 19:34
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SciFiDownBeat posted:Honest question, are you GM or higher? No mate, I'm not. Thanks for asking. Obviously I'm talking about people engaging in consistent behaviours that are problematic. Not getting healing at all from your main heal is problematic. Your main tank endlessly suiciding is problematic. We're not talking about the "oh, Moira's using right click instead if healing me I shall shout into my mic", or "Rein did a bad charge I shall accuse him of throwing". You should be able to have grown-up communications with your team and deal with this sort of thing. hobbesmaster posted:One phrasing is likely to tilt your team, one is likely to encourage them. Nobody reacts well to "you suck at this thing, do something else" but will to "I trust you to do this thing so much that I am going to double down on it" I can only refer you to the post that you're replying to vOv
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Jul 2, 2018 19:35
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Perfectly Safe posted:No mate, I'm not. Thanks for asking. You're wasting your time if you do that. You're the same SR as the people you're complaining about. You're making just as many mistakes as they are. Instead of asking them to do different things, focus on your own game. You'll get way more value out of doing that because game to game your teammates will change.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:41
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No Wave posted:What would be the point of that... If an opponent performs particularly well, it might be nice to tell them they've done that. Sort of like how you have people telling you that you've made good posts.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:49
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Ginette Reno posted:You're wasting your time if you do that. You're the same SR as the people you're complaining about. You're making just as many mistakes as they are. Instead of asking them to do different things, focus on your own game. You'll get way more value out of doing that because game to game your teammates will change. No, it's clearly not a waste of time because you can say "Rein, please can you just walk in with your shield up" and, you know, he'll do it and you'll win rather than lose. Effective communication with the rest of your team is one of the things that you can do to improve your game. It's not all just getting better at shootymans. There's absolutely nothing's stopping you from working on your own game at the same time, in any case.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:49
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