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quote:"Normal countries don't terrorize other nations, proliferate missiles and impoverish their own people," Hook said. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/aims-reduce-irans-oil-revenue-180702171030835.html 
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Jul 3, 2018 19:05
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loquacius posted:Yeah this seems to be a weasel-word tweet idk it's not like abolishing (and prosecuting) ICE will solve the problem all by itself -- you have to tackle the whole DHS itself and its sub-agencies to root out the problem entirely
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Jul 3, 2018 19:05
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it owns that the anonymous Dem pollsters are going full (((george soros paid protestors)))
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Jul 3, 2018 19:06
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Ytlaya posted:This is kind of funny because the headline is actually correct It's not though - Oliver doesn't say Amlo is Mexico's "own Donald Trump" or anything like that. I get what you're saying about Oliver not-so-subtly linking Amlo, Trump, and Bernie, and you're right, that's pretty lovely; I just re-watched the segment and noticed it a lot more this time. But that's still not the same thing that the headline is claiming.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:11
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ice has already committed atrocities and it wasn't exactly sterling in its previous incarnations either, so there's really no good reason to softball it. don't get on the pot if you don't have to poo poo that said, actually doing something about our grotesquely racist and draconian immigration laws ought to be a high priority and sanders probably would have been fine if he had stuck to that without the reform ice nonsense
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Jul 3, 2018 19:11
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SKULL.GIF posted:idk it's not like abolishing (and prosecuting) ICE will solve the problem all by itself -- you have to tackle the whole DHS itself and its sub-agencies to root out the problem entirely Breaking up the big banks also wouldn't solve Wall Street corruption (or racism lol) all by itself either, and yet he could still manage to promise to do it, because it's a big part of the overall effort
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Jul 3, 2018 19:12
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Jul 3, 2018 19:13
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Office Pig posted:ice has already committed atrocities and it wasn't exactly sterling in its previous incarnations either, so there's really no good reason to softball it. don't get on the pot if you don't have to poo poo Eh, I just see it as him shifting from his earlier dumb position of "Don't abolish ICE." He'll move to the "Abolish ICE" position before long.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:15
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I don't really care if Bernie uses the magic words "Radical ICElandic Terrorism" or not.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:16
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loquacius posted:Breaking up the big banks also wouldn't solve Wall Street corruption (or racism lol) all by itself either, and yet he could still manage to promise to do it, because it's a big part of the overall effort well that's the thing, Bernie is saying to break up the banks and replace them with a publicly owned financial institution and everyone is going "but he didn't say to break up the banks!"
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Jul 3, 2018 19:18
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Jul 3, 2018 19:19
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I'd believe he's taking this position because he has too much stature to tell the entire DNC to gently caress itself every single time anymore, but it still kind of feels like when you're 14 and your favorite alt-rock band puts out a catchy single that hits #3 on the pop charts same tbh
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Jul 3, 2018 19:19
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Ytlaya posted:In my experience a bunch of (usually older) liberals just can't get past this mindset where conservatives represent your stereotypical openly bigoted fundamentalist Christian and liberals represent the general concept of "open-minded good person who is okay with gay people and marijuana," and that's all there is. They have no concept of any politics outside of that sort of cultural context (where conservatives represent one kind of person and liberals represent another), because that's all they've known for their entire lives. They feel genuine confusion when leftists attack liberals (or assume leftists are actually Republicans), because to them "liberal" is just synonymous with "someone who is good" (and anyone who is attacking them obviously must either be a conservative or influenced by conservatives). America has been ruled by a liberal legal regime since the establishment of the constitution. It's never not been a liberal country, and operating politically within that framework means "liberal" is naturally going to take on different connotations over time. It's meaningless as an ideological signifier, because it's impossible to be politically viable without being ideologically liberal. The same is true even for Republicans, but calling them a liberal party doesn't work politically because you need some way to distinguish between the two parties.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:20
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 Hillary for Oklahoma board member 👆, who suffers from severe Crohn’s Disease. just can’t get it.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:23
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Ytlaya posted:In my experience a bunch of (usually older) liberals just can't get past this mindset where conservatives represent your stereotypical openly bigoted fundamentalist Christian and liberals represent the general concept of "open-minded good person who is okay with gay people and marijuana," and that's all there is. They have no concept of any politics outside of that sort of cultural context (where conservatives represent one kind of person and liberals represent another), because that's all they've known for their entire lives. They feel genuine confusion when leftists attack liberals (or assume leftists are actually Republicans), because to them "liberal" is just synonymous with "someone who is good" (and anyone who is attacking them obviously must either be a conservative or influenced by conservatives). It certainly doesn't help that the post-1968 Democratic Party very deliberately tried to create this mindset, at least among its supporters. I know I certainly grew up under the delusion that the only domestic policy issues that mattered were those having to do with civil rights. Until far too late in my life, I believed that "liberal" = "pro-civil rights" = "good."
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Jul 3, 2018 19:27
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Would breaking up the banks solve racism? Would abolishing ICE bring back middle-class jobs?
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Jul 3, 2018 19:29
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Dirk Pitt posted:
there are people out there who are going to be naturally concerned that a radical transformation of the system will leave them in the dust because existing systems might be simply extended, deficiencies and all, and they hate the existing system in question with a passion due to its deficiencies. there probably should be highly-detailed policy documents out there to reassure these people that the deficiencies will be addressed as part of, e.g. extending medicare, which can be referred to in common by berniecrats, socialists, etc. while there are certain types that will literally never be convinced by analysis that left policy is practical, others buy into the pragmatism argument at face value and are swayable
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Jul 3, 2018 19:30
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Dirk Pitt posted:
Take that, Amber Frost! 
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Jul 3, 2018 19:35
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Jazerus posted:there are people out there who are going to be naturally concerned that a radical transformation of the system will leave them in the dust because existing systems might be simply extended, deficiencies and all, and they hate the existing system in question with a passion due to its deficiencies. there probably should be highly-detailed policy documents out there to reassure these people that the deficiencies will be addressed as part of, e.g. extending medicare, which can be referred to in common by berniecrats, socialists, etc. while there are certain types that will literally never be convinced by analysis that left policy is practical, others buy into the pragmatism argument at face value and are swayable Can just saying that if a doctor says you should get x, means you get x suffice? Again, my wife has Cystic Fibrosis and we moved to Sweden to help pay for her medicine, and that is literally the case here as far as I can tell. Disabled people won't be left in the lurch, we don't have to spend a ream of paper writing about how Medicare for All is explicitly better for disabled people. *democrat voice*we simple have to keep Amber away from that document*/democrat voice*
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Jul 3, 2018 19:36
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Dirk Pitt posted:Can just saying that if a doctor says you should get x, means you get x suffice? Again, my wife has Cystic Fibrosis and we moved to Sweden to help pay for her medicine, and that is literally the case here as far as I can tell. Disabled people won't be left in the lurch, we don't have to spend a ream of paper writing about how Medicare for All is explicitly better for disabled people. they won't believe it without exhaustive evidence because americans are conditioned to expect no truth in politics by the shiftless dems and fascist gop
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Jul 3, 2018 19:39
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Dirk Pitt posted:Can just saying that if a doctor says you should get x, means you get x suffice? Again, my wife has Cystic Fibrosis and we moved to Sweden to help pay for her medicine, and that is literally the case here as far as I can tell. Disabled people won't be left in the lurch, we don't have to spend a ream of paper writing about how Medicare for All is explicitly better for disabled people. Yeah, I kind of feel like the person who wrote that has already decided to oppose M4A and is just searching for a reason to do so.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:39
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If anything disabled (or chronic illness) people get better care tbh, the system knows her needs. I have to go through a diagnosis phase. My wife spent 10 days in the hospital, two weeks ago, and was put into a room that met her needs almost immediately. 2 hours in an ER room sucked (the room still had the O2 she needed), but after 2 hours she was in a room with a bathroom and TV. Best part was 10 days in the hospital, got better, didn't get a bill, went back to work, got a full paycheck.
Dirk Pitt has issued a correction as of 19:50 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 19:47
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it's ridiculous to expect a two word slogan to comprise a full immigration policy proposal. and of course, there's gonna have to be some part of the federal bureaucracy that deals with immigration but one reason to prefer 'abolish ICE' over 'reform ICE' is that the latter suggests we can get away with rearranging a few people at the top. ICE has been completely infiltrated by fascists and therefore needs to be dissolved. anyone who happily follows an order to put a baby in a cage is a nazi and needs to be turfed out of the federal govt. if this country is going to survive (it wont) we need a massive detrumpification program and ICE is a good place to start
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Jul 3, 2018 19:47
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power word- Jeb! posted:it's ridiculous to expect a two word slogan to comprise a full immigration policy proposal. and of course, there's gonna have to be some part of the federal bureaucracy that deals with immigration prosecute ice
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Jul 3, 2018 19:48
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Majorian posted:Yeah, I kind of feel like the person who wrote that has already decided to oppose M4A and is just searching for a reason to do so. maybe that person, but they're disguising it that way to seem as though they have reasonable doubts on a personal level instead of cynical disinterest on a professional level. that's only effective because some people are genuine about taking this kind of stance for this reason
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Jul 3, 2018 19:49
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nuremberg ice
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Jul 3, 2018 19:50
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I re-read Bernie's answer and I'm not sure what y'all are mad about.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:54
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It isn't like he said he just wanted people to have access to abolishing ICE.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:54
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Thoguh posted:I re-read Bernie's answer and I'm not sure what y'all are mad about. nit-pickery (as there should be). He did use weasel words. Hopefully he used them because he is plotting a run. As 2016 taught us, left leaning people as a whole will vote for the lesser of two evils, it is the people that identify as Democrats we have to worry about.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:55
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gulag ice
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Jul 3, 2018 19:56
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ice ice
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Jul 3, 2018 19:56
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https://twitter.com/somethingawful/status/1014151387217891328
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Jul 3, 2018 19:57
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Dirk Pitt posted:nit-pickery (as there should be). He did use weasel words. Hopefully he used them because he is plotting a run. Pretty much. He was, uncharacteristically, being much cagier than necessary, which is understandable given the number of boomer eyes on him these days but disappointing given that the Berno I fell in love with doesn't give a gently caress and says whatever he wants
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Jul 3, 2018 19:57
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Jul 3, 2018 19:58
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holy poo poo lowtax lobbing grenades
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Jul 3, 2018 19:58
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Jul 3, 2018 19:59
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abolish and prosecute ice for crimes against humanity
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Jul 3, 2018 19:59
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The old man's still got it.
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Jul 3, 2018 19:59
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Thoguh posted:I re-read Bernie's answer and I'm not sure what y'all are mad about. 
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Jul 3, 2018 19:59
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| # ? May 25, 2024 01:33 |
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Wasn't this an Amanda Marcotte take on why people voted for Trump "Obama fixed all their problems and they're so fat and happy they can vote based on prejudice again"
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Jul 3, 2018 20:00
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