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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's a term intended to describe a specific form of hegemonic masculinity, but was wielded by people who thought they were on the cutting edge of feminism by deciding to apply it to everything. "Toxic masculinity" has devolved into simply meaning "thing that is bad," while eclipsing in the minds of the woke crowd the original concept it was intended to further. I just read this post out loud to my wife, and she said: “‘Feminists made this term! Feminists bad!’” Which is what it sounds like to me too
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Jul 6, 2018 15:53
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I just read this post out loud to my wife, and she said: “‘Feminists made this term! Feminists bad!’” I think you mean feminists are toxic masculinity. 
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Jul 6, 2018 15:56
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It reads to me more like "radicalism made this term, radicalism is bad" and that using blanket terminology might not be a good thing, no matter how angry you are (like kylo). Now that I think about it, maybe radicalism isn't the right term either. Militantism, maybe? Either way, it goes back to yoda's message, you can't fight hate with hate, otherwise you already lost to the dark side.
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Jul 6, 2018 15:59
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Vader cut off Luke’s hand while he was holding the lightsaber. Only the lightsaber shows up in TFA. Therefore somebody must have separated the two at some point, meaning that Luke’s hand is somewhere in the Star Wars universe unaccounted for. Chances are that rigor mortis would have set in and Luke’s hand would be stuck in a position to grip a cylindrical object. There is a non-zero chance that somebody in the Star Wars universe used Luke Skywalker’s hand to give themselves a handjob.
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Jul 6, 2018 16:04
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Instant Sunrise posted:Vader cut off Luke’s hand while he was holding the lightsaber. Only the lightsaber shows up in TFA. Why is this even speculation?  
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Jul 6, 2018 16:22
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I just read this post out loud to my wife, and she said: “‘Feminists made this term! Feminists bad!’” Again, the term has eclipsed its superior patent concept. So much so that you are unable to recognize the feminist concept of hegemonic masculinity, which already described what's now idiotically buried under the label of "toxic". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 16:25
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Neo Rasa posted:Why is this even speculation? Imagine a world where Disney!Han told his son about The Secret Tales of Luke's Hand
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Jul 6, 2018 16:36
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if anyone is guilty of toxic masculinity in tlj it's luke, who prioritizes violence over communication towards his own family and kills himself in order to get one last own on the nephew he considered murdering kylo's anger meanwhile is directed towards the right targets, the lovely past he's inherited from the people who came before him
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Jul 6, 2018 16:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"toxic masculinity" is a stupid concept. Ah good, so you're not just a lovely idiot poster, you're a toxic sexist misogynist as well. I legitimately fear for any women in your life.
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Jul 6, 2018 16:45
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jivjov posted:Ah good, so you're not just a lovely idiot poster, you're a toxic sexist misogynist as well. I legitimately fear for any women in your life. settle down, beavis
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Jul 6, 2018 16:47
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Brother Entropy posted:settle down, beavis Nah dude. If people can't recognize toxic masculinity, then they're probably guilty of it themselves, and are an active threat to those around them.
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Jul 6, 2018 16:49
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jivjov posted:Ah good, so you're not just a lovely idiot poster, you're a toxic sexist misogynist as well. I legitimately fear for any women in your life. Hahahahaha, what the gently caress is wrong with you A: "Toxic masculinity is a stupid concept because it's a poor replacement for hegemonic masculinity" B: "oh my god you are a misogynist who abuses women"
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Jul 6, 2018 16:52
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jivjov posted:Nah dude. If people can't recognize toxic masculinity, then they're probably guilty of it themselves, and are an active threat to those around them. you're mad that he prefers using a different phrase and deciding he's a dangerous misogynist because of it
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Jul 6, 2018 16:52
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Toxic masculinity is an incredibly broad concept at the best of times. How is Kylo Ren toxically masculine?
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Jul 6, 2018 16:53
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People are struggling hard to explain why Kylo scares them, so you have stuff like “he’s a school shooter, uh, he’s a cosplayer...???” Luke tried to murder a kid in a school while dressed as a Jedi. Kylo Ren is scary because he’s a fundamentalist Christian who actually believes in God, whereas Luke couldn’t even read a fuckin bible after literally being stuck on an island with it for over ten years. Also Kylo yells at people.
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Jul 6, 2018 16:56
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A person: "'Colour-blindness' is no solution to racism" Jivjov: "Oh my god you filthy loving racist! I assume you're a Grand Wizard."
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Jul 6, 2018 16:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Kylo Ren is scary because he’s a fundamentalist Christian who actually believes in God, whereas Luke couldn’t even read a fuckin bible after literally being stuck on an island with it for over ten years. Also Kylo yells at people. Perhaps Luke is a Roman Catholic (i.e. a servant of the Anti-Christ a.k.a. the Pope).
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Jul 6, 2018 17:07
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Luke Skywalker's School For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Want To Do Other Stuff Good As Well
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Jul 6, 2018 17:10
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Yaws posted:Why did Ben Solo fall to the darkside? Because Luke attempted to kill him? Was he destined to because of his grandpap? There's a lot to unpack when Luke reveals that "Snoke already turned Ben" while he was under his tutelage, which means *Snoke was already consolidating power through the universe while Luke was in hiding with his students *Luke was radicalizing these kids against the established government in secret *Luke wanted to kick off Vietnam II ruddiger fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 17:12
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity These don't seem like synonyms to me or replacements for the other one tbh
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Jul 6, 2018 17:16
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RBA Starblade posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity quote:According to Kupers, toxic masculinity serves to outline aspects of hegemonic masculinity that are socially destructive, "such as misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination". This sums up why the idea of "toxicity" is bunk. The truth is that these aren't socially destructive, but socially constructive practices, which is what makes them truly dangerous. e: see Star Wars for an example, where "toxically masculine" Kylo Ren almost off-handedly takes control of the galaxy after killing Snoke BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 17:28
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RBA Starblade posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity They aren’t synonyms because hegemonic masculinity refers to power structures, whereas toxic masculinity is about the edge-case behaviour of individual ‘toxic subjects’. A person can complain about toxic masculinity without actually opposing hegemonic masculinity, let alone patriarchy. In your own link, they use male prisoners as their example of toxic people, when of course we should be talking in terms of the entire prison-industrial complex.
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Jul 6, 2018 17:35
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Rey should have hosed Kylo Ren to calm him down, a la Clarice and Hannibal Lecter in Hannibal.
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Jul 6, 2018 17:59
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This sums up why the idea of "toxicity" is bunk. The truth is that these aren't socially destructive, but socially constructive practices, which is what makes them truly dangerous. You claim that misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination are self-evidently socially constructive. I don't think I can even begin to understand your moral framework. BravestOfTheLamps posted:e: see Star Wars for an example, where "toxically masculine" Kylo Ren almost off-handedly takes control of the galaxy after killing Snoke A childish, cruel madman murders a dictator to become the dictator in his place. That's a social good to you? Maybe in that his reign is doomed to failure whereas Snoke seemed to have a good chance of reestablishing an empire. It's going to be a dark time in the short term, though.
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Jul 6, 2018 17:59
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Kylo Ren will only be a good guy if in the next movie it's revealed he's planning to murder all humans (including himself) and leave the Galaxy to the Wookies, Clawdite Shapeshifters, and Porgs.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:02
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Astribulus posted:You claim that misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination are self-evidently socially constructive. I don't think I can even begin to understand your moral framework. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 18:05
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Astribulus posted:You claim that misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination are self-evidently socially constructive. I don't think I can even begin to understand your moral framework. You're making the same naive mistake as Kupers, and using the words "constructive" and "destructive" as synonyms for "good" and "bad".
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Jul 6, 2018 18:05
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The unspoken subtext of TLJ is that Kylo Ren is gay, and Luke was actually running a gay conversion camp. However, Luke soon began to give in to his own gay feelings (he never got married to a woman after 40 years?!) and lusts after his nephew Kylo, which he displaces into violent thoughts. He also suspects Kylo is being seduced by the open and flaming homosexual Snoke and his twink lover General Hux. Rey nearly suceeds in heterosexually seducing Kylo, but at the last minute she rejects the notion of sexual conversion out of moral principle, leaving Kylo to enter into an uneasy relationship with Hux.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:14
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Vinylshadow posted:Why limit yourself to such a tiny version of Luke showing off the cares he gives? Definitely the worst single shot in all of Star Wars. Maybe in all of cinema.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:20
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I really don't like Dyed Beard Luke it makes him look like some kind of sleazy sex pest or an over the hill High School principal or something.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:22
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That’s not actually luke.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:22
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porfiria posted:The unspoken subtext of TLJ is that Kylo Ren is gay, and Luke was actually running a gay conversion camp. However, Luke soon began to give in to his own gay feelings (he never got married to a woman after 40 years?!) and lusts after his nephew Kylo, which he displaces into violent thoughts. He also suspects Kylo is being seduced by the open and flaming homosexual Snoke and his twink lover General Hux. How does the closeted ghost of Obi-Wan Kenobi fit into this?
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Jul 6, 2018 18:25
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euphronius posted:That’s not actually luke.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:28
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Rey and Kylo really should become romantically involved in the next one, but too bad Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t have the balls to do that.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:29
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euphronius posted:That’s not actually luke. Martman posted:Is it Bigger Luke? VVV Pure ideology! Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 18:34
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It's the mental projection of Luke's digital self.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:39
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Astribulus posted:A childish, cruel madman murders a dictator to become the dictator in his place. Kylo Ren isn’t insane.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:41
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Slutitution posted:Rey and Kylo really should become romantically involved in the next one, but too bad Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t have the balls to do that. I didn't know she was writing the movie.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:46
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Wheat Loaf posted:I didn't know she was writing the movie. It’s weird to see a Disney fan pretend Kathleen doesn’t have final say over the script to win an argument on the internet.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:53
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Slutitution posted:It’s weird to see a Disney fan pretend Kathleen doesn’t have final say over the script to win an argument on the internet. I didn't realise I was arguing.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:54
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