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Tiggum posted:Humans are just machines too. I hate this. Humans are physical objects that do things, which is also true of machines. wow, so deep. We take in energy via food and transform it into masturbating to suppress suicidal ideation, just like how a toaster takes in electricity and transforms it into heat
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Jul 6, 2018 17:32
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Guy Goodbody posted:I hate this. Humans are physical objects that do things, which is also true of machines. wow, so deep. We take in energy via food and transform it into masturbating to suppress suicidal ideation, just like how a toaster takes in electricity and transforms it into heat Well, you know what they say: All toasters toast toast
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Jul 6, 2018 17:33
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spit on my clit posted:Well, you know what they say: All toasters toast toast Is my broken toaster no longer a toaster and therefore not a broken toaster?
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Jul 6, 2018 17:39
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spit on my clit posted:Well, you know what they say: All toasters toast toast wrong. I use my toaster to toast bagels, which produces a toasted bagel, not toast. gently caress you.
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Jul 6, 2018 17:42
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"humans are machines" google qualia, bitch
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Jul 6, 2018 17:44
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Anything toasted is toast, even tomatoes
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Jul 6, 2018 17:46
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spit on my clit posted:Well, you know what they say: All toasters toast toast Bread goes in, toast comes out. You can't explain that.
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Jul 6, 2018 17:47
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Tiggum posted:Humans are just machines too. There are key differences though. We didn't create ourselves from the ground up like we would have to with an AI/robot thing. We can use a biological process to reproduce, but we don't create. A robot would never have free will, only code designed to mimic free will. In terms of function they could be very similar to how our body works, but they still wouldn't be human. It gets a little trickier if you start to talk about human clones (which are probably much more realistic than a human-like robot honestly). In the end I think if something is artificially created through technology, it should not be treated like anything but an interesting piece of technology that we made.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:06
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Danaru posted:Anything toasted is toast, even tomatoes 
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Jul 6, 2018 18:11
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yeah I eat rear end posted:There are key differences though. We didn't create ourselves from the ground up like we would have to with an AI/robot thing. We can use a biological process to reproduce, but we don't create. A robot would never have free will, only code designed to mimic free will. In terms of function they could be very similar to how our body works, but they still wouldn't be human. You’re assuming that humans have free will and not just the illusion of it as we follow our own biological coding.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:25
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Rutger Hauer was alive goddamit
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Jul 6, 2018 18:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Bread goes in, toast comes out. You can't explain that. all toasters toast toast
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Jul 6, 2018 18:32
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fruit on the bottom posted:You’re assuming that humans have free will and not just the illusion of it as we follow our own biological coding. Nobody could possibly code a human so poorly as to explain the decisions I make on a regular basis. Anyway the point is the creator is always superior to the thing they make in terms of rights etc. Whatever you think our creator is, we clearly aren't the same as them and shouldn't be treated like them. The only way that aspect of the argument would fall apart is if there is no creator and we just exist, but that's not what I personally believe, and even if it were true I think it would still apply to anything we create.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:00
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spit on my clit posted:all toasters toast toast BUT YOU PUT BREAD IN! WHERE DOES THE BREAD GO?
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Jul 6, 2018 19:07
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spit on my clit posted:all toasters toast toast Mine has actually evolved and now either barely warms the bread or converts it to useful carbon with no middle ground. Has my toaster ceased to be a toaster?
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Jul 6, 2018 19:09
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What we really need is an AI to create another, more jazzy AI. Then that one can have more rights than people.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:14
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ToxicSlurpee posted:BUT YOU PUT BREAD IN! WHERE DOES THE BREAD GO? to hell
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Jul 6, 2018 19:27
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Nobody could possibly code a human so poorly as to explain the decisions I make on a regular basis. That certainly is the case in practice, but I don’t think it necessarily follows that it ought to be. I mean until such time as a suitably complex AI that can pass for a full human intellect exists, if indeed such a thing is even possible (and that’s a pretty big if imo), we’re really just jerking ourselves off here.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:28
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ToxicSlurpee posted:BUT YOU PUT BREAD IN! WHERE DOES THE BREAD GO? There’s a little goblin in the toaster who takes the bread and gives you toast.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:29
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fruit on the bottom posted:That certainly is the case in practice, but I don’t think it necessarily follows that it ought to be. Well yeah I know it's all bullshit like a world with 100% self-driving cars like people like to talk about, i'm just arguing against the bias science fiction has where the people who treat the robots for what they are are always portrayed as the bad guys.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:35
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It's hosed up that people talk about rights for sex robots when we don't even have rights for sex workers
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Jul 6, 2018 19:39
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's hosed up that people talk about rights for sex robots when we don't even have rights for sex workers I'd go for a no frills type sex robot, just like a box with a hole in it
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Jul 6, 2018 19:45
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Guy Goodbody posted:I hate this. Humans are physical objects that do things, which is also true of machines. wow, so deep. yeah I eat rear end posted:A robot would never have free will yeah I eat rear end posted:Anyway the point is the creator is always superior to the thing they make in terms of rights etc. yeah I eat rear end posted:i'm just arguing against the bias science fiction has where the people who treat the robots for what they are are always portrayed as the bad guys. Guy Goodbody posted:It's hosed up that people talk about rights for sex robots when we don't even have rights for sex workers hawowanlawow posted:I'd go for a no frills type sex robot, just like a box with a hole in it
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Jul 6, 2018 20:13
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I really should go to the local pub right now and have a few frosty pints.
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Jul 6, 2018 20:14
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Tiggum posted:Neither does a human. I'm afraid I need you define what you mean by "human", "neither", and "a" before I can understand what you are getting it. How do humans not have free will? Do you believe in predestination or what? Tiggum posted:They're treated as the bad guys because they are the bad guys. A dog isn't the same as a human but you're still loving arsehole if you treat one badly. Yes but I'm not going to let my dog vote and if I want to conduct a search of his mouth to find whatever bullshit he just ate I shouldn't need to get a warrant.
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Jul 6, 2018 20:16
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Well yeah I know it's all bullshit like a world with 100% self-driving cars like people like to talk about, i'm just arguing against the bias science fiction has where the people who treat the robots for what they are are always portrayed as the bad guys. Probably worth noting that sci-fi has a long tradition of using its setting to talk about present day society. Which is to say that sometimes the robots don’t just represent robots.
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Jul 6, 2018 20:29
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I'm afraid I need you define what you mean by "human", "neither", and "a" before I can understand what you are getting it. Neither: in this instance, essentially "not also", that is to say that a human, like a machine, does not have free will. A: The indefinite article; any given example of the type. yeah I eat rear end posted:How do humans not have free will? Do you believe in predestination or what? yeah I eat rear end posted:Yes but I'm not going to let my dog vote and if I want to conduct a search of his mouth to find whatever bullshit he just ate I shouldn't need to get a warrant.
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Jul 6, 2018 20:29
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Tiggum posted:Humans don't have free will because free will requires that there be some external entity controlling the physical world; And what is your evidence that such a thing doesn't exist?
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Jul 6, 2018 20:34
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I’ve never understood the point of making an irl true AI. Why make a C3PO that can suffer when you can just make a robot butler with doglike traits that feels no pain or anguish but absolutely adores dedicating its existence to serving humans? In this theoretical future we control every aspect of the robot’s cognition.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:28
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’ve never understood the point of making an irl true AI. Why make a C3PO that can suffer when you can just make a robot butler with doglike traits that feels no pain or anguish but absolutely adores dedicating its existence to serving humans? In this theoretical future we control every aspect of the robot’s cognition. Yeah in reality people would just not code the thing to feel negative emotions. There's absolutely no reason to aside from just seeing if you can.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:29
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the point behind creating true ai is seeing if we can create genuine cognition as humans experience it. it's not about creating a docile existence for a hypothetical legion of robo slaves.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:47
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:the point behind creating true ai is seeing if we can create genuine cognition as humans experience it. it's not about creating a docile existence for a hypothetical legion of robo slaves. The former is a more lofty philosophical endeavor, but the latter is definitely the more practical/profitable one so it will definitely be the first thing to pursue if such a thing ever does happen.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:52
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Pain is an important response to prevent your new sex robot damaging itself. Repeated instances of pain should provoke escalating reactions to try to avoid further pain, so you need to program a suffering meter as well. Unless you want your robot to enjoy pain (that model costs extra, and you can't insure it).
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Jul 6, 2018 21:55
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People gonna hack their dominatrix bots to be non-three-laws-compliant
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Jul 6, 2018 22:08
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The real reason we might create something people think of as "true AI" is because of the approach we're using to making AI now. What you're referring to with robot slaves is where we program a computer to do exactly one thing to our specifications. When it comes to what we talk about when we talk about modern AI, we're talking about problems that aren't really easily defined any more. For example, the really simple popular example of what you might use what the computer science worlds defines as AI/Machine Learning is an image recognition algorithm. The way you do a ML image recognition program is by feeding in hundreds of thousands of images labeled a certain way (picture of a banana vs picture of a dog vs picture of a 40 year old white man) and program in some specific things to look for, what parameters might be more/less important, etc. Once you start to get into more complicated ML/AI systems, it becomes harder and harder to define exactly what features are "important" when analyzing data sets, and it becomes more and more complicated for humans to actually trace exactly what patterns the ML system is finding that leads it to say X is a picture of a dog as opposed to being a cat, monkey, whatever. At this point we're getting into systems where we have robots out in public programmed to try various things and see how people respond and save that information as part of its pattern recognition algorithms. I heard some discussion about a university working on self-driving cars where the university had the AI try different actions at intersections and see how people would respond. They were able to deduce that if they reversed a few inches at a stop sign it made the other people at the intersection more likely to continue driving. These cars also supposedly recorded license plates/make/model of other cars and learned generally how aggressive or defensive of a driver those cars were. You can understand why these systems were made the way they were, and it's easy to see why they're useful, but at a certain point it becomes impossible to know exactly what the car will do at an intersection because it's taking into account way more information than a human can think about at the same time. It really isn't about "why would we make a robot that knows how to hate people" but rather "we have no way of guaranteeing robots won't intentionally harm humans because impossible control how robots will respond to every situation."
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Jul 6, 2018 22:17
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That was a lot of words but all you need to do is add a kill switch in case the robot gets ornery. It can be safeguarded by several levels of "if the robot tries to edit this code, kill it" safeguards.
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Jul 6, 2018 22:20
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I just realized this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeL9gagV_VA was not a song written by these guys. My unpopular opinion is it's better than the original.
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Jul 6, 2018 22:37
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At least the way we’re developing it now, is it fair to say that any kind of self-aware AI intellect would likely look quite different than what usually think of as intelligence? My understanding is that it took a ridiculous amount of processing power to model the way our neurons fire for a fraction of a second, and the takeaway was that even though we’re much shittier at math that there’s a type of processing and complexity that operates in a very fundamentally different way than how computers function.
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Jul 6, 2018 22:54
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We should develop a gun that can kill robots. Just preemptively. Maybe one with like lights and stuff on it. You know what, let's just make it look like the old LaserTag guns.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:01
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Only if you can activate "double whammy" mode on it if you need to deal with two ornery robots.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:02
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