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He fought Colossus as Juggernaut in AvX VS.
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Jul 6, 2018 05:04
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prefect posted:Sounds similar to the way Hulk handled him during World War Hulk. Hulk beat Juggernaut with an Irish whip? Alright.
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Jul 6, 2018 06:29
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Has any DC or Marvel superhero ever stopped a gay bashing? It might seem heavy handed, but considering that kind of thing still happens today... I dunno, it seems like the kind of thing that would've given an lgbt youth hope back in the day. But I can't think of an example of it ever happening.
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Jul 6, 2018 07:11
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https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/02/anger-as-comic-book-hero-beats-up-homophobes-with-a-pride-flag/
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Jul 6, 2018 07:24
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Regular people can stop homophobes, we don't need superheroes for that.
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Jul 6, 2018 10:47
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Lurdiak posted:Has any DC or Marvel superhero ever stopped a gay bashing? It might seem heavy handed, but considering that kind of thing still happens today... I dunno, it seems like the kind of thing that would've given an lgbt youth hope back in the day. But I can't think of an example of it ever happening. I can't think of a specific example but that seems like the kind of heavy handed metaphor the X-Men would be all over.
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Jul 6, 2018 11:22
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Lurdiak posted:Has any DC or Marvel superhero ever stopped a gay bashing? It might seem heavy handed, but considering that kind of thing still happens today... I dunno, it seems like the kind of thing that would've given an lgbt youth hope back in the day. But I can't think of an example of it ever happening.
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Jul 6, 2018 13:59
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Lurdiak posted:Has any DC or Marvel superhero ever stopped a gay bashing? It might seem heavy handed, but considering that kind of thing still happens today... I dunno, it seems like the kind of thing that would've given an lgbt youth hope back in the day. But I can't think of an example of it ever happening. 
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Jul 6, 2018 15:29
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Open Marriage Night posted:He fought Colossus as Juggernaut in AvX VS. That was Colossus as a pheonix, or did the two overlap?
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Jul 6, 2018 23:12
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Lurdiak posted:Has any DC or Marvel superhero ever stopped a gay bashing? It might seem heavy handed, but considering that kind of thing still happens today... I dunno, it seems like the kind of thing that would've given an lgbt youth hope back in the day. But I can't think of an example of it ever happening. I think there was a Green Lantern/Green Arrow PSA thing during the AIDS crisis where they save a gay man from an angry mob .
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Jul 6, 2018 23:13
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Skwirl posted:That was Colossus as a pheonix, or did the two overlap? Yes. The first half of the story he's the Juggernaut, which he originally became during the prior event Fear Itself.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:47
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I love this. Captain America ahead of the goddamned curve with compassion and decency (this looks like it's from 1990 or so, when people were terrified of gay men especially).
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Jul 7, 2018 02:24
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I love this. Captain America ahead of the goddamned curve with compassion and decency (this looks like it's from 1990 or so, when people were terrified of gay men especially). Nah. It was earlier than that. Arnie, one of Cap’s childhood best friends, was introduced in like 83 or 84 by DeMatteis. There was a long story involving Zemo with him.
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Jul 7, 2018 03:03
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X-O posted:Nah. It was earlier than that. Arnie, one of Cap’s childhood best friends, was introduced in like 83 or 84 by DeMatteis. There was a long story involving Zemo with him. Yeah I'm pretty sure those scans are from a long story that ran from #293-301, not sure which issue-- but it would have been 1984 or 1985. DeMatteis never comes out and says Arnie or his partner Michael are gay but he's about as clear about it as he could be in mid-80s Marvel, and even if that whole arc veers a little close to misery for misery's sake ("from a DeMatteis comic? Why I never--") his treatment of Cap and Arnie's friendship is really well done and touching.
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Jul 7, 2018 03:13
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Archyduke posted:Yeah I'm pretty sure those scans are from a long story that ran from #293-301, not sure which issue-- but it would have been 1984 or 1985. DeMatteis never comes out and says Arnie or his partner Michael are gay but he's about as clear about it as he could be in mid-80s Marvel, and even if that whole arc veers a little close to misery for misery's sake ("from a DeMatteis comic? Why I never--") his treatment of Cap and Arnie's friendship is really well done and touching. That run around the exact same time also had DeMatteis trying to clean up the Snap Wilson stuff as well. I'm a big fan of the DeMatteis run on Cap.
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Jul 7, 2018 03:31
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Agreed. Compassionate progressive Cap is best Cap. Second best is Capwolf. 
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Jul 7, 2018 03:38
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To be fair, doesn’t Capwolf basically form a werewolf union almost immediately?
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Jul 7, 2018 03:41
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Mr. Maltose posted:To be fair, doesn’t Capwolf basically form a werewolf union almost immediately? Valid point. He might be a monstrous man-wolf hybrid, but at least he’s not a Republican. 
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Jul 7, 2018 04:19
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Archyduke posted:Yeah I'm pretty sure those scans are from a long story that ran from #293-301, not sure which issue-- but it would have been 1984 or 1985. DeMatteis never comes out and says Arnie or his partner Michael are gay but he's about as clear about it as he could be in mid-80s Marvel, and even if that whole arc veers a little close to misery for misery's sake ("from a DeMatteis comic? Why I never--") his treatment of Cap and Arnie's friendship is really well done and touching.
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Jul 7, 2018 04:31
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ecavalli posted:Agreed. Compassionate progressive Cap is best Cap. Worth it for the title alone
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Jul 7, 2018 04:32
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I like how his arms and shoulders get bigger and more muscular, so his uniform rips there. His feet and hands grow grow claws and his toes poke out of his boot. Even his werewolf ears poke out of his cap. But his new spindly dog legs/ankles get the boot material vacuum formed to them, except for the now even more goofy looking pirate cuffs.
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Jul 7, 2018 04:47
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Madkal posted:Worth it for the title alone I wouldn't be surprised if it only even existed for the title alone
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Jul 7, 2018 05:09
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, the odd thing is that it absolutely fits the definition of gay bashing, because the plot is simply that Steve's gay friend shows up, and immediately is kidnapped and subjected to humiliating torture by the Hate Monger, partly for its own sake. In DeMatteis' final arc where Arnie is forced to dress up in Joel Grey Cabaret makeup and tear himself down, the Red Skull also kidnaps Cap's one-armed pacifist veteran friend (I'm blanking on his name) and brainwashes him into a foaming at the mouth warmonger, as well as writing some quite grimy and alarming scenes with Zemo and the Red Skull's daughter. It's really pretty viscerally disturbing-- it freaked me out as a kid picking through my cousins' ratty back-issues and it freaks me out now. DeMatteis was really good at twisting the knife and making his villains very, very cruel, which can work in a story like this where by the end of it Cap is essentially an allegorical figure struggling to figure out if he can beat sadism and hatred with his fists, or in stuff like The Child Within, although I think as his Spider-Man stuff goes on through the 90s he starts returning to the same well a little often. But in his Cap it works so well because he manages to do both of his DeMatteis Things at the same time, that is, a very heightened kind of psychological melodrama, and a quasi-mystic sort of superhero-as-allegory thing. Red Skull is cruel and petty because there's nothing else to him-- DeMatteis writes him like a tick, this nasty, venal little guy that can't think of anything more grand to do with his genius than drain the goodness and happiness out of people. He's not grand or sinister or ominous-- he's just a grody, senile dweeb with some gadgets, surrounding himself with prepubescent girls and deluded fanboys like DeMatteis' Zemo. So Cap isn't trying to foil a world-ending scheme, or get revenge on this that or the other, he's trying to figure out, desperately, how to fight cruelty without being cruel-- in this context, I think, the infamous scenes of him being wishy-washy about fighting neo-nazis is palliated a little, because it's part of DeMatteis' whole trajectory of Cap quietly interrogating what it means to do good in a superhero universe, albeit an awkward and not very flattering part. It's there too in how he writes the much more bloodthirsty Nomad, how he writes Cap's relationship with the pragmatic but ethically committed Bernie, and especially his intended end of the run, which would have made a much bolder and stranger statement about pacifism and violence than what we actually got.  This page in particular is gut-wrenching, it's hard to read, but I think it's much better than if Cap had swung in to save Arnie from a gang of rednecks or Watchdogs or Hydra guys or whatever, because I can only imagine how many kids or teens or young adults-- god, especially in the 80s-- also read Arnie's captions and recognized their own interior monologues, and how powerful Captain America's response-- already posted in this thread of course-- would have felt. Because, like, even though obviously Captain America is just a character, and the whole schtick is a scheme in a haunted house invented by a red skeleton man in a smoking jacket, you'd at least know that some writer off in some city was thinking about the weird queer kids who couldn't figure out how to act right or like themselves, and decided that in his comic book the nicest, bravest superhero would reflexively find them worth saving, even if they themselves didn't think so, without a second thought. I get verklempt about it the same way I do reading certain chunks of All-Star Superman. DeMatteis' Cap rules.
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Jul 7, 2018 08:06
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Synthbuttrange posted:https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/02/anger-as-comic-book-hero-beats-up-homophobes-with-a-pride-flag/ Hell yes. Hell yes. Once again I'd like to bring up that Jim Shooter, that piece of poo poo, didn't allow DeMatteis to outright say Arnie was gay. It's not hard to read between the lines, of course, but it does take some of the bite out of the story when Arnie is heartbroken over his "roommate" dying. And I'd also like to bring up that the movie version of Bucky essentially has Arnie's backstory, being Cap's friend from the Bronx who used to shield him from the bullies and be a cool ladies' man.
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Jul 7, 2018 13:01
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ecavalli posted:Valid point. He might be a monstrous man-wolf hybrid, but at least he’s not a Republican. Somebody asked Waid what he thought Cap's political leanings were and he said 'New Deal Democrat.' Not authoritative obviously, but one could see it.
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Jul 7, 2018 13:08
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Archyduke posted:In DeMatteis' final arc where Arnie is forced to dress up in Joel Grey Cabaret makeup and tear himself down, the Red Skull also kidnaps Cap's one-armed pacifist veteran friend (I'm blanking on his name) and brainwashes him into a foaming at the mouth warmonger, as well as writing some quite grimy and alarming scenes with Zemo and the Red Skull's daughter. It's really pretty viscerally disturbing-- it freaked me out as a kid picking through my cousins' ratty back-issues and it freaks me out now. Wow, that was really wonderfully written. Thanks for that. I love Cap and everything he represents as an rear end-kicking, bully-hating, progressive New Deal Democrat, but like most people, I know him best from the movies, Brubaker's run (where he was dead for so much of it), and Bendis' first New Avengers run (same). Plus, the Adventures of Captain America miniseries by Nicieza and Maguire will always have a place in my heart. I also love DeMatteis from his much more light-hearted JLI/A/E work with Giffen, even though things could turn on a dime and get deadly serious there. But I've never read his Cap run, or his Spider-Man run, for that matter. (And sadly, I haven't read Gruenwald's Cap either). Has DeMatteis' Cap run been collected in any format?
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Jul 7, 2018 13:57
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I don't think you've ever gotten The Essential DeMatteis Captain America or something no, unfortunately. Heck, trades alone of that era in general can be hard to come by.
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Jul 7, 2018 15:55
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Dawgstar posted:I don't think you've ever gotten The Essential DeMatteis Captain America or something no, unfortunately. Heck, trades alone of that era in general can be hard to come by. Death of red skull trade collects the panels posted
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Jul 8, 2018 10:48
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You can always get the 40 years of Captain America DVD if you can find it.
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Jul 8, 2018 14:06
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Other than the annuals pretty much all of Cap’s core run is on MU at this point.
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Jul 8, 2018 16:52
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His run will eventually be collected in the Epic Collection volumes 10 and 11 as well.
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Jul 9, 2018 15:47
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This isn't a question, but I thought people might find it interesting. https://twitter.com/fredvanlente/status/1015608631902048258
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Jul 9, 2018 16:04
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prefect posted:This isn't a question, but I thought people might find it interesting. Good story, contains bonus dragging of Dave Sim. Hey, as long as I'm here, did they ever say how Iron Man got de-inverted after Hickman's Secret Wars?
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Jul 9, 2018 23:30
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Tony starts his post SW series restored to his previous state.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:14
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Since Havok is finally back to normal as of a month or so ago I’m pretty sure Sabertooth is the only one still inverted.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:20
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Good Victor Creed is better than any past use of the character so I'm okay if he never gets inverted back.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:33
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Evil Sabertooth was always written so inconsistently anyway. In one story he'd be a heartless merc who'll do anything for money, in another he'll be a wild animal obsessed with revenge, and in yet another he's basically just Carnage. All they could agree on is that he's a dick.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:42
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Good story, contains bonus dragging of Dave Sim. The multiverse blew up
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Jul 10, 2018 00:43
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site posted:The multiverse blew up Not Franklin's first rodeo.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:44
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Talking about good and bad sabertooth reminded me of this recent thread and it had me pretty  about the guyhttps://twitter.com/cheryllynneaton/status/1012739026560970753?s=19
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Jul 10, 2018 00:51
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