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Mors Rattus posted:Ken Hite is a very traditional Reaganite Republican. Reminder: Reagan was as bad, or worse, than Trump.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:19
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Reminder: Reagan was as bad, or worse, than Trump. They aren't really big outliers of "good" and "bad" in that position in a historical sense.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:23
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Reminder: Reagan was as bad, or worse, than Trump. Definitely worse.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:24
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How are they both compared to Hitler?
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Jul 9, 2018 22:28
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Plutonis posted:They aren't really big outliers of "good" and "bad" in that position in a historical sense. Look up Andrew Jackson sometimes. The original Trump, a dipshit ethnic genocider on a scale that makes the modern Trump look like nothing.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:28
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Bedlamdan posted:I'm genuinely surprised they don't get more poo poo for making a game where you can play as Hitler. So do you live in bad faith now, or do you just go there to argue?
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Jul 9, 2018 22:32
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Kurieg posted:So do you live in bad faith now, or do you just go there to argue? No, I'm genuinely surprised that Hearts of Iron 4 and (1-3) lets you play as Nazi Germany and nobody has made a blog post or news article condemning it. You'd think they would, it's an incredibly low hanging fruit that's just dangling there.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:34
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There are countless war sim games where you can play as germany in WWII and that is not the same thing as "making a game where you play as Hitler." Most people draw a pretty clear line between enjoying the strategic and tactical challenges of a game about war, and endorsing or glorifying in any way the person responsible for the Holocaust.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:35
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Because you can play the countries that defeated the Nazis and because by playing as Hitler you can play as the person who ultimately killed Hitler. e: And if you make a Holocaust mod it gets removed from the Workshop
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Jul 9, 2018 22:36
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Leperflesh posted:There are countless war sim games where you can play as germany in WWII and that is not the same thing as "making a game where you play as Hitler." Most people draw a pretty clear line between enjoying the strategic and tactical challenges of a game about war, and endorsing or glorifying in any way the person responsible for the Holocaust. Well, you can play as Nazi Germany during WW2 and beat the Russians and the Allies. The fact that it's an ahistorical wargame where the Nazis can outright win ought to be more troubling.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:38
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Bedlamdan posted:No, I'm genuinely surprised that Hearts of Iron 4 and (1-3) lets you play as Nazi Germany and nobody has made a blog post or news article condemning it. You'd think they would, it's an incredibly low hanging fruit that's just dangling there. LMAO head down this path and you end up screaming at Milton Bradley for making Axis and Allies.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:39
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I GMed an RPG session in which the players fought demons which as GM I controlled, therefore the makers of that RPG were selling a game in which I "play as Satan." I played Axis and Allies when I was a teenager, so obviously not only did I "play as Hitler" I also got to "play as Stalin" so obviously Milton Bradley has been promoting the holocaust since the 1980s, why hasn't anyone taken them to task over that??? e.goddamnit
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Jul 9, 2018 22:39
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:LMAO head down this path and you end up screaming at Milton Bradley for making Axis and Allies. Yeah but, major publications have screamed at other things and people for less egregious things. Again, it's right there. It'd be so easy. I bet I could slap together a thinkpiece on it in like, a couple of hours tops.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:40
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Ha ha gotcha Leperflesh!!!
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Jul 9, 2018 22:40
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Paradox also makes a game where I can play as a hivemind that consumes all sentient life, clearly this also needs a moral denunciation.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:53
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"why doesn't [thing i don't like] exist already??"
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Jul 9, 2018 22:55
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Plutonis posted:Because you can play the countries that defeated the Nazis and because by playing as Hitler you can play as the person who ultimately killed Hitler. it's this. It's not the same because you can choose to play as WW2 Germany or as literally any other country involved and push Germany's poo poo in. And in the newest HoI game there's multiple fully fleshed out and rewarding paths to play as Germany and explicitly avoid Hitler's takeover and instead remain democratic and even join the allies and all. The game's Hitler Percentile is actually pretty fuckin low!
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Jul 9, 2018 23:02
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Kurieg posted:Paradox also makes a game where I can play as a hivemind that consumes all sentient life, clearly this also needs a moral denunciation. I think between the two of us, we could start writing for Kotaku.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:03
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waypoint is the hip new source of rage at minorities writing things in games, get with the times old man
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Jul 9, 2018 23:16
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sexpig by night posted:waypoint is the hip new source of rage at minorities writing things in games, get with the times old man TY, sending my resume off to them right now, wish me luck.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:19
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Crossposting from the WW thread, the original poster updated with a response from WW, and it is some of the finest shade-throwing I've seen in a while.quote:Edit: Following the article’s publication, DogWithDice was approached directly by Tobias Sjögren, CEO of White Wolf publishing, requesting the chance to speak with concerning the article mentioned. We were invited to email Tobias. After some consideration, we put together the following questions to raise. This screenshot is edited to remove personal details only. That is some of the best 'it is pointless to talk to you because you will misrepresent anything we discuss' I've seen implied in quite some time.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:33
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"please stop owning us and talk in private where we can dictate the terms of the conversation" lmao
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Jul 9, 2018 23:36
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Liquid Communism posted:Crossposting from the WW thread, the original poster updated with a response from WW, and it is some of the finest shade-throwing I've seen in a while. 'please do not make us put anything in writing we are bad at it'
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Jul 9, 2018 23:44
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LOL at inviting questions and then responding to a printed list of numbered and clearly stated questions with "can't we just jump on Skype and talk this over?" Surely, this is a company with nothing to hide.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:46
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Leperflesh posted:I GMed an RPG session in which the players fought demons which as GM I controlled, therefore the makers of that RPG were selling a game in which I "play as Satan." Kurieg posted:Paradox also makes a game where I can play as a hivemind that consumes all sentient life, clearly this also needs a moral denunciation. leaving bedlamdan's D-grade trolling aside, people always post stuff like this whenever their favourite game gets criticised for valorising gross stuff so it's worth pointing out: no, that's not how this works at all a game where you blow up the earth is fine whereas a holocaust simulator is not, because it's not about measuring how bad the action simulated would be if you actually did it
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Jul 9, 2018 23:53
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Yup it's entry-level whataboutism, except also framed to cast shade on anyone who complains about problematic things as being inconsistently unreasonable because why aren't they also mad about <totally different thing that is nowhere near as problematic>
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Jul 9, 2018 23:59
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I sincerely hope that dude is bright enough to record the drat conversation.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:00
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:leaving bedlamdan's D-grade trolling aside, people always post stuff like this whenever their favourite game gets criticised for valorising gross stuff so it's worth pointing out: no, that's not how this works at all You can easily make the argument that, In The Age of Trump, people simulating fascist leaders and nations is dangerous and unhealthy. Arguably, they should be restricted to computer controlled states, and your own nation turning Fascist should be a Lose state instead where the game closes. Leperflesh posted:Yup it's entry-level whataboutism, except also framed to cast shade on anyone who complains about problematic things as being inconsistently unreasonable because why aren't they also mad about <totally different thing that is nowhere near as problematic> Well, I'm not suggesting there's anything you shouldn't be mad about right now. It's just, again, a really easy way of putting shade on Paradox especially in light of the WW Vampire thing, that nobody in games media has gone for yet, and that surprises me.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:01
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literally inventing stuff to get mad about
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Jul 10, 2018 00:02
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A person could easily make that argument, yes. Are you making that argument, Bedlamdan, or are you just saying that a person who is overly sensitive about things could make that argument, and this would be evidence of their excessive sensitivity, which you are surprised hasn't happened because of course the complainers out there are obviously overly-sensitive?
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Jul 10, 2018 00:03
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Leperflesh posted:A person could easily make that argument, yes. Are you making that argument, Bedlamdan, or are you just saying that a person who is overly sensitive about things could make that argument, and this would be evidence of their excessive sensitivity, which you are surprised hasn't happened because of course the complainers out there are obviously overly-sensitive? It's easy money, and I could totally Games Journal the poo poo out of Paradox if I were up for it.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:04
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Just for context, people have been up in arms for decades about violence of all types in video games, so maybe those theoretical people are more concerned about the visceral and immediately shocking violence in hundreds of a-list top tier games for all this time than they are about the implied violence and obliquely-implied historical horrors of a strategic wargame.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:06
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Like maybe first they can focus on games where you can beat up and murder prostitutes, and then worry about grognardy WWII sims later.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:06
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Leperflesh posted:Just for context, people have been up in arms for decades about violence of all types in video games, so maybe those theoretical people are more concerned about the visceral and immediately shocking violence in hundreds of a-list top tier games for all this time than they are about the implied violence and obliquely-implied historical horrors of a strategic wargame. "What the rise of fascism in this WW2 simulator has helped me understand about the Rise of Trump" By Bedlamdan, a motherfucking genius. Leperflesh posted:Like maybe first they can focus on games where you can beat up and murder prostitutes, and then worry about grognardy WWII sims later. I can write about this too. Maybe we could get something put together. Goon project, anyone?
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Jul 10, 2018 00:07
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Bedlamdan posted:You can easily make the argument that, In The Age of Trump, people simulating fascist leaders and nations is dangerous and unhealthy. Arguably, they should be restricted to computer controlled states, and your own nation turning Fascist should be a Lose state instead where the game closes. this bit is not getting any cleverer with repetition
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Jul 10, 2018 00:13
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When it comes down to it, even the most prolific prostitute murderers are not as bad as Hitler.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:34
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:When it comes down to it, even the most prolific prostitute murderers are not as bad as Hitler. Except, of course, Hitler himself
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Jul 10, 2018 00:37
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:When it comes down to it, even the most prolific prostitute murderers are not as bad as Hitler. What was Jack the Ripper’s opinion on immigration, worker’s rights, etc
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Jul 10, 2018 00:40
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My one data point for Paradox is that while the right likes to valorize the Crusades as good and just because it was against Muslims, Crusader Kings II accurately portrays them as a hopeless clusterfuck where the European nations score some early victories then blunder around the desert, withdrawing troops as soon as the Pope will let them.
Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 01:13
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Maxwell Lord posted:My one data point for Paradox is that while the right likes to vaporize the Crusades as good and just because it was against Muslims, Crusader Kings II accurately portrays them as a hopeless clusterfuck where the European nations score some early victories then blunder around the desert, withdrawing troops as soon as the Pope will let them. The new expac will fix that though.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:17
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