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And shitizens thought goons refunded our fleet.  
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Jul 11, 2018 03:51
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Scruffpuff posted:You're falling into the trap of "everything that can be invented has been." It's impossible for a member of the general public to answer the question "what innovation do you want" because that's the whole point of innovation - you're making something new that most people didn't think of. We leave that kind of work to people who aren't Chris Roberts. You know, actual visionaries. I just want Battlefront II (by Pandemic) with EvE Online economy and systems. I'm never going to see it.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:53
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doingitwrong posted:loving Nintendo released two Freemium IAP whale wallet draining mobile games. I always laugh when people act shocked that Nintendo are greedy kiddie diddlers. They were the Microsoft of gaming before Microsoft decided to buttfuck gamers dumb enough to buy XBox.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:53
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years c&c
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Jul 11, 2018 04:06
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years I can think of a few examples but they weren't necessarily the last few years. The ammo system in Deus Ex: Invisible War was stunningly bad. (Shared ammo between all weapons for "simplicity" which defeats one of the primary points of a FPS - ammo management.) ME:Andromeda's combat Most MMOs go through this - they start with sets of complex and subtle abilities, demolished over the years and in the end you wind up hitting 4 buttons in the "right" order for "optimal" damage The first two examples are just bad games. The final example is an anomaly because in MMOs you get a lot of people who are NOT, in any way, interested in playing a game for any of the reasons we've been outlining here. They want to blast through them to get the highest numbers and any button that doesn't fulfill that goal might as well not exist. So the developers evolve the game in that direction. It's an example of the player base itself demanding a dumbing down. There are some games that go the opposite direction and it's not always obvious. My example is here Dead Space. None of them were what I'd call "good" instead I'd call them "good enough when they're on deep discount." Had no trouble with the first or second ones. Playing the third I hit a loving brick wall about 1/4 to 1/3 through the game. Turned out if you weren't crafting your weapons you were gimping yourself. I assumed the crafting was bolted on because marketing research showed "crafting sells games now" but in fact the entire game revolves around you being the engineer you're supposed to be playing and keeping your arsenal up to scratch. So that was one example of me actually loving up because I'd assumed it was dumbed down when it wasn't. I know I've played plenty of games where the sequels took out much of the depth that made me like the original, but I can't think of them offhand. It's like when you know you've heard a trope in dozens of movies but can't provide examples. I'll try to think of some good ones.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:14
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years The progression of the role-playing portion and mechanics of Fallout 2 — Fallout 3 — Fallout 4. (New Vegas fixed many of F3's mistakes, but not this one.)
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Jul 11, 2018 04:17
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There's also a fine line between "dumbing down" and "streamlining." One man's depth is another man's unnecessary complexity. It's a tough balance to strike when no two people agree. That said, it's amazing how often games err too far in either direction since a reasonable middle ground generally makes for pretty good games overall.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:19
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You folks need to play Into The Breach. Its my GOTY.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:20
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years Street Fighter V. (a good thing)
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Jul 11, 2018 04:23
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A good one to debate might be Diablo 2 to Diablo 3. The primary argument comes down not to complexity, but permanence and living with the impact of your choices. In Diablo 2 it was possible to "make a mistake" and pick talents that plain sucked. Now you're rerolling a character and losing potentially hundreds of hours of work. Over time the playerbase figured out the "best" builds. Since the game was static, those builds pretty much stagnated. Which meant players just ran to a website to copy a build already proven viable. In Diablo 3 you can respec whenever you want. So it's less "hardcore" because your character will never need to be thrown out, but there are actually far more build types available. But because experimentation has no drawbacks, it's considered to be less "hardcore." It's a good one to debate because you have people who think it was dumbed down because making a bad build and getting hosed is no longer a possibility, and people who think it was made more complex because the sheer number of builds, combined with the more unusual legendaries, along with the fact that it's a live game and therefore frequently changing, makes it far more mathematically complex. So you get a good idea of what kind of gamer you're dealing with depending where they fall on that debate. Ones that think "living with your mistakes builds character" and ones that think "I paid to play a game, not a meta."
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Jul 11, 2018 04:24
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no_recall posted:Its my GOTY. You won't say the same thing when 3.3 is out.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:26
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More Warframe news:  Seems like the ship can be used to fly to your missions. Currently the game is limited to one star system, Sol but in the latest story update they hinted at another. So, they probably just delivered Star Citizen's concept better than Star Citizen? e: lol, ObAnt is talking about warframe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Xm2zf4vhs what a time to be alive. no_recall fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 04:27
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Zzr posted:You won't say the same thing when 3.3 is out. It will never stop being funny to me that we started making fun of Star Citizen's Jesus Patch years ago, and when we joked about it we'd exaggerate by setting the patch number way ahead. Even when joking back then about it, none of us went as far ahead as 3.3.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:28
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colonelwest posted:I think VR will eventually be the catalyst for a lot innovation. It's just a matter of time. Who was it who was just saying that new technology usually takes to the 3rd generation to really catch on and become wildly popular? Was it Todd Howard? Well, he had a point. VR is eventually gonna be ubiquitous but we're not there yet. This tech is cool, but too expensive and too bulky and there's still some issues being worked out. In a few years everything will be better; more games to play in VR, smoother VR, higher resolution, cheaper hardware and lighter more comfortable hardware. You put all that together and suddenly the value shoots through the roof. We're just not there yet.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:30
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RULv6HbgEjY <- the game plays itself, requires you to do basically nothing but walk forward down corridors where you couldn't possibly get lost, and then watch cutscenes. This is where FPS are now, compared to like goldeneye and halo and doom. But there's still good things here and there, Doom 4 is awesome and requires you to explore a non-linear map. Those call of duty FPS are just more like movies where you occasionally click your mouse to shoot to keep the movie going. I don't think that's wrong, but it is "dumbed down" compared to proper FPS of yore. There's this classic: 
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Jul 11, 2018 04:37
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SoftNum posted:"Why C++ is a lovely language in 4 steps" C++ is a lovely language, but so is... every other language.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:44
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trucutru posted:Street Fighter V. (a good thing) Street Fighter V is a trash game and I suck my teeth any anyone who disagrees.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:45
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MarcusSA posted:I wasn't 100% down with VR till I tried this... VR is cool as gently caress, and even more so when its as fully immersive as can be (given current tech) I did the Ghost Busters one, and again while cool you can quickly see the limitations and set pieces For instance everything has to be setup JUST right, to coincide with the virtual world, the door knobs and switches have to be in the same place in the real world And they put in lots of real world effects, like a fan blowing on you when you're supposed to be outside on the side of a tall building Walk past something on fire and you get a heater blasting at you Or when the stay puft dude explodes you get misted with a marshmellow smelling spray Anyways cool stuff, will be exciting to see how far we can take it when cordless VR is more mainstream Also there is no hope in hell of CIG ever putting VR into anything, they can't even code ramps
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Jul 11, 2018 04:50
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Quavers posted:I understand 0% of that article Translation: Lumberyard has a ton of bugs, which are easily detected, which means they probably know and are ignoring them as tech debt because they're busy working on other things. These are also bugs that Crytek have fixed; however they were fixed after Amazon cut Lumberyard as a branch and started their own development into Lumberyard, so they didn't get those fixes and will have to take time to fix those same bugs themselves. The bugs themselves are mostly small tricks of C++ syntax where developers were trying to be clever and do a lot at once and accidentally wrote something that doesn't do what they thought it does. Most are fixed by just adding parenthesis or changing a fudged number. And goddamn I love this guy: quote:I already checked CryEngine twice, in august 2016 and april 2017, and I'm sorry to say it, but the code quality had decreased since the first check. I was wondering the other day how Amazon had used the engine and took a look at the new product. I must admit they did make a great environment. The user documentation and environment deployment software are really awesome too. But the code is messed up again! I hope Amazon can afford to allocate much more resources for that project and will start caring about code quality at last. By writing this review I hope to draw their attention to this problem and persuade them to take a new approach to the development process. The code's current state is so bad that I had to change the title and the featured image of the article several times as I was going through the analysis report. This guy's a hero, writing up documentation on all of lumberyard's bugs to try to shame Amazon into going and fixing them already. Superb stuff.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:59
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Meridian posted:Street Fighter V is a trash game and I suck my teeth any anyone who disagrees. Well, yeah, it's trash. But that has nothing to do with it being more accessible. Better than being both garbage and non-accessible. Like, have a newbie play, dunno, the latest Guilty Gear and watch them explode. Which is why the new Dragon Ball game is as basic as you can get in a modern anime fighter: you do want people to play your game. trucutru fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 05:01
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Zaphod42 posted:Idk remake is good and polished but I far prefer the original, especially the geoscape and base management. It's full of obtuse bullshit that isn't easy to delve into even by Dark Souls "Wait I have a jump?" Bullshit. I love the game, I even like TFTD even when I can't get a drat Calcinite for melee poo poo. Finding out 20 hours into a run that you've hosed yourself isnt fun for most people. Xcom remake could do with more interesting base mechanics, bit not having to fire 60% of my troopers for 10 bravery isn't missed.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:07
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Jul 11, 2018 05:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QgDRoK-PB4 Just listen to it. Then listen to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkteNWutOz8
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Jul 11, 2018 05:24
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https://i.imgur.com/j6IqhWH.gifv
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Jul 11, 2018 05:28
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Beet Wagon posted:mining permits are in! Praise James 315!
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Jul 11, 2018 05:31
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Scruffpuff posted:A good one to debate might be Diablo 2 to Diablo 3. The primary argument comes down not to complexity, but permanence and living with the impact of your choices. Diablo is a great example because we have Path of Exile as a kind of foil to Diablo 3. PoE was made to appeal to gamers who loved Diablo 2 but thought the skill tree was too legible. I mean, just look at this thing:  PoE has extremely limited respecs and the understanding (from what I can tell) is that you’ll grind through the content many, many times to try out different builds. Diablo 3 instead encourages exploration and experimentation within a single playthrough. But then has the Seasons system to encourage you to reset and start over. Both games are ultimately about finding completely broken builds that make actually playing the game trivial. As you get deep enough into either, the builds and the custom gear that enables them become the game and the grinding (the gameplay for most normal players) becomes a pleasant background activity. They are very strange games that reward complex systems mastery with an extremely dumbed down gaming experience.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:45
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TheAgent posted:man y'all need to play prey for real Prey by Arkane Studios is a great game, and the Mooncrash DLC is more and fun too. There's a multiplayer component coming soon for the DLC which is one human versus five mimics, it's basically the most dangerous prop hunt game ever concocted. no_recall posted:You folks need to play Into The Breach. This game is another incredible game, though it can be a bit stressful by nature (in a good way). It's one of those games I play once every few weeks like Darkest Dungeon cause I feel like my blood pressure has gone up every time I get through a sitting. Between this sort of thing and people flagrantly cheating with no apparent way to stop it, it might be time to realise space is full of jerks because eventually they all were driven off of Earth.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:56
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no_recall posted:Brings back some memories in Elite playing open where I was pirated for beer, a joke, dropping 5t of cargo, or flying loops. In Eve, it's been known people will ransom pods for stupid things, like a song or a joke.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:57
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Jul 11, 2018 06:29
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TheAgent posted:but good rear end movies come out all the time backed by big studio money source plz, I know a lot of well produced movies get made but that's largely because of netflix showing you can make niche* movies again, nothing to do with big studios backing quote:unless you somehow think No Country for Old Men was lovely, or 3 Billboards, or anything that Fox and Disney release under their indie wings are trash I mean big movie houses have had smaller indie publishing sides since the 90s. So ya I know Big Hollywood can produce great movie, and I think in a way we're seeing kind of an interesting mish mash of 70s film revival but on a true international scale, like really director led passion projects to tell a story. But I don't think the same is happening in the game industry. What I see happening is 'gamefying' and turning every aspect of the game loop into as an addictive as experience as possible is reigning king because of sales, and unlike movies where it's passive and tastes in the medium change and ebb, how the gently caress do you unhook a generation of gamers who have been gambling on Counter Strike skins since they were 8. And what's poo poo is indie devs when they're not copying their own indie formules for success, still to a large part try to ape these big development houses mind trick scams to make their games more exciting. There is just too much loving money to be made and it's largely a tech driven industry, so 'artists' that exist are largely set dressing to either sell skins. Like off the top of my head I really really struggle to name one writer of note in the game industry, I know Fargo and Sawyer wrote/designed fallout1/2. I mean for fucks sake Fallout 3 was industry wide called a brave new direction in story telly. *which gently caress me if it doesn't feel like netflix has a deep learning algorithm somewhere writing these loving scripts and shows like Stranger Things are version 1.0 of the software. Morphix fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 06:41
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Scruffpuff posted:I don't think we're ever going to see those games again. Not in the way you're imagining. Back in the day, the idea was to make an immersive, incredible title, single-player was usually the focus, get it on shelves at Babbage's and whatnot, and hope you moved enough copies to see a nice profit. If the game was good enough, and word spread, it was doable, and your time spent on making a deep story, or great AI, or something immersive, was well-spent. So you got games like Half-Life or Deus Ex, games that to this day have not really been properly followed-up. once again someone sums up my point much betterrrer and throws in a twilight zone quote to melt my heart
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Jul 11, 2018 06:44
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TheAgent posted:I'd like a few examples of games that were dumbed down in the last few years xcom is good example as well. compare xcom apocalypse to xcom 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo4XKV3F9Hg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CilEDzq4N3w its actually much harder to find xcom2 gameplay. There is tons of letsplays from apocalypse which is great deep game. i have played tons of 90's (and bit of 80's c64 games) games in 2000-2018's . Because i really dont care about graphics or UI, to me actual gameplay takes first place. (i do hope that xenonauts 2 manages to deliver updated xcom apocalypse) I do think that now things are slowly getting better, for example factorio is pretty much game done in 90's quality with modern day UI. Same with xenonaut, which is like alternative sequel to original xcom. good example of when things started to go wrong is transition from monkey island 3 to monkey island 4. forced transition from 2d to 3d killed many great franchises. (including fallout. Fallout 3 was horrible disappointment for me) 80's tech wasnt there yet. But creativity is top notch on c64. 90's tech is there bit of rehashing from 80's. There is a lot of failures but diamonds are shining brighter than ever, and there is lot of em. 2000 great 3d games appear a lot of great 2d games disappear from market. 2007 quality starts dropping overall. But there are still great diamonds out there like prince of persia. 2010-2015 quality drops even further, its no longer worth to buy a AAA game. Couple of great indies appear. 2015-2018 AAA means that game is filled with dlc's/lootboxes and generally isnt worth the pricetag at all. Indie games are delivering great games however there is still bit of catching up to do with quantity of great games. A lot of developers are redoing 90's games, some are horrible simplifications like xcom or thief. Others are successful, but simplified like terraria. And then there is things like xenonaut which feels like alternative sequel to xcom.
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Jul 11, 2018 06:44
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lol no wonder so many of you backed star citizen
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Jul 11, 2018 07:10
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trucutru posted:Well, yeah, it's trash. But that has nothing to do with it being more accessible. Better than being both garbage and non-accessible. To be fair Guilty Gear is stupidly fun even just mashing. I never could really go "serious" level with it, but my friends and I played it a lot in high school. I know that wasn't your point at all, I just really hate SFV.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:20
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Scruffpuff posted:No need to create an immersive story, or all the trappings of the original gaming experiences, when you can hop in some kind of multiplayer sandbox and make your own stories. Counterpoint: God of War.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:23
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Dark Off posted:. Others are successful, but simplified like terraria. Not to nitpick your post, I generally agree, just curious what you're comparing this one to so I can look back at it.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:24
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Counterpoint: God of War.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:24
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Counterpoint: God of War. Game was good. Bloodborne and God of War along with the Last of Us port (since I missed it the first time around) were worth buying the PS4.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:26
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TheAgent posted:console trash BOY.
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Jul 11, 2018 07:26
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doingitwrong posted:PoE has extremely limited respecs and the understanding (from what I can tell) is that you’ll grind through the content many, many times to try out different builds. Diablo 3 instead encourages exploration and experimentation within a single playthrough. But then has the Seasons system to encourage you to reset and start over. It's also the case that because skills are completely divorced from the tree you end up with characters who are more an archetype than anything else. For instance, this league I started out with a critical-strike lightning caster that I wasn't really that happy with, so I spent a few respecs (you get a limited number of free ones, but they're also item drops and can be bought in-game from other players) and bought some gear to transition him into a melee-focused battle-wizard whose every hit shat lightning bolts across the screen. It would have been more expensive to change him to focus on fire damage, and really inefficient to change him to a pet-based class, but as long as I was dealing primarily lightning damage it was just a matter of shuffling some deckchairs.
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