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the primary tendency in the dsa is confused/trying to figure it out
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Jul 11, 2018 02:10
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Ace of Baes posted:the primary tendency in the dsa is confused/trying to figure it out Would go faster if you ingrates read a loving book
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Jul 11, 2018 02:11
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Phi230 posted:Would go faster if you ingrates read a loving book I think a lot of people are figuring it out as they go and participate in actions and are around other more radical members with better understanding, which is fine, if most Americans read theory at this point they'd just end up confused, not that you'd get them to read thousand plus page books in the first place
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Jul 11, 2018 02:14
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Ace of Baes posted:the majority of DSA wants to do away with capitalism but has liberal sensibilities or understandings of most things, which makes sense since like 90% of them were liberals up until 6 months-2years ago a lot of them say that but then it turns out that what they mean by 'removing capitalism' is like, reducing regulations on credit unions or tax credits for unions
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Jul 11, 2018 02:14
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Larry Parrish posted:a lot of them say that but then it turns out that what they mean by 'removing capitalism' is like, reducing regulations on credit unions or tax credits for unions not my experience but who really knows, there's no hard data for tendency within the dsa
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Jul 11, 2018 02:15
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Serf posted:i know i got domino effected from liberal to marxist real loving fast after 11/9 Fuckin' :same" I was a socdem who had faith in the idea where Bernie and the like pulled the party to the left and then the party leadership would get it done. Wednesday morning I was like "welp, even the elites on 'my side' are garbage, what else you got?" big black turnout posted:https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/07/3-arguments-against-socialism-and-why-they-fail has a good summary of the difference imo. Yeah, the whole minimum program / maximum program thing makes a lot of sense. Also because when people start yelling about a slippery slope you can be all "you're god damned right it's a slippery slope, here's what's at the bottom of it"
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Jul 11, 2018 02:16
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we did a straw poll on the Nixon endorsement and I think she’ll get it
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Jul 11, 2018 02:18
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Rated PG-34 posted:we did a straw poll on the Nixon endorsement and I think she’ll get it ppl are gonna get rly mad lol
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Jul 11, 2018 02:21
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Ace of Baes posted:not my experience but who really knows, there's no hard data for tendency within the dsa i think my experience is skewed because the sacramento dsa is like 90% people who live in nice houses in midtown and obviously have no material problem with current conditions
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Jul 11, 2018 02:22
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Rated PG-34 posted:we did a straw poll on the Nixon endorsement and I think she’ll get it That sucks
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Jul 11, 2018 02:23
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people are gonna be mad when dsa endorses bernie for president in a year
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Jul 11, 2018 02:26
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Phi230 posted:Would go faster if you ingrates read a loving book Would be easier if you ingrates didn't require 10 pages of pedantic stream of conciousness to state the idea that your boss gets fat by keeping a share of the fruits of your labor for himself e: the galtse but this time it's a 200yr old eastern european pedant explaining that money begets political power Marxalot has issued a correction as of 02:29 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 02:26
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It's me, I'm the social democrat dibs on the good wall
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Jul 11, 2018 02:28
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Shear Modulus posted:people are gonna be mad when dsa endorses bernie for president in a year At least he *says* he's a socialist
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Jul 11, 2018 02:28
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i think its good that people think socialism is cool now.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:31
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Marxalot posted:Would be easier if you ingrates didn't require 10 pages of pedantic stream of conciousness to state the idea that your boss gets fat by keeping a share of the fruits of your labor for himself Without theory we wouldn't even be here let alone have a coherent vision of a better or how to get there you loser
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Jul 11, 2018 02:35
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You cant praxis without books Without theory you're just s loving lib I mean it's pretty telling already if your idea of socialism begins and ends with the common sense realization that money gets you power. Even some libs realize this
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Jul 11, 2018 02:36
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Nixon announced she was a demsoc like 5 min before her speech asking for endorsement. if she does gets endorsed, I bet we won’t hear much about socialism in her actual campaigning not that she really knows what it is anyhow.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:49
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Phi230 posted:common sense realization 
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Jul 11, 2018 02:52
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Rated PG-34 posted:Nixon announced she was a demsoc like 5 min before her speech asking for endorsement. if she does gets endorsed, I bet we won’t hear much about socialism in her actual campaigning not that she really knows what it is anyhow. Tbf, the culture shift, even in the left, with regards to Socialism is still somewhere between "But what does that mean?" and "Yes, this is a good thing" and there's still large swathes of mainstream Democratic base that are still leery at saying that specifically Capitalism is bad as opposed to the components.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:57
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I was a socdem before the election, and then every time I read the news a little voice kept telling me that Robespierre did nothing wrong.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:10
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Robespierre was a loving lib
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Jul 11, 2018 03:39
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He was a good lib tho
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Jul 11, 2018 03:40
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Marxalot posted:Would be easier if you ingrates didn't require 10 pages of pedantic stream of conciousness to state the idea that your boss gets fat by keeping a share of the fruits of your labor for himself dont even loving look at me unless your theory on class interactions has a 30 page metaphor involving the barley market of 1830's Eastern Prussia
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Jul 11, 2018 03:44
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Hey do about that Market Socialism question And don't @ me with this "read Capital" bullshit.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:46
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Internet Explorer posted:Hey do about that Market Socialism question if u wont read a book at least watch this poo poo it's good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGT-hygPqUM
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Jul 11, 2018 03:49
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It depends who you ask. The marxist (correct) take is: If the worker owned coops are still producing for exchange, its still capitalism, because it still has commodity logic. You've sinply changed the actor within the system from an individual, to a firm.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:50
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Xelkelvos posted:Tbf, the culture shift, even in the left, with regards to Socialism is still somewhere between "But what does that mean?" and "Yes, this is a good thing" and there's still large swathes of mainstream Democratic base that are still leery at saying that specifically Capitalism is bad as opposed to the components. it doesn't matter. socialist politicians exist in the current system, they just push socialist ideas without actually saying SOCIALISM and CAPITALISM
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Jul 11, 2018 03:54
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rudatron posted:It depends who you ask. The marxist (correct) take is: If the worker owned coops are still producing for exchange, its still capitalism, because it still has commodity logic. You've sinply changed the actor within the system from an individual, to a firm. at rosa luxemburg put it, it's slashing at the twigs of the capitalist tree.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:55
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Internet Explorer posted:Hey do about that Market Socialism question this is my favorite essay on it https://jacobinmag.com/2012/12/the-red-and-the-black
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Jul 11, 2018 03:58
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assuming we're talking about electoral politics wrt radicalizing the dem base, a vote from someone who's like "yeah, i don't like people to die because they can't afford healthcare" carries exactly the same weight as a vote from a marxist give people a solution outside of capitalism, let it grow, and use that momentum to push for more radical policies
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Jul 11, 2018 03:59
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Karl Barks posted:this is my favorite essay on it https://jacobinmag.com/2012/12/the-red-and-the-black a) follow-up post on this by Matt Bruenkg b, and unrelated) https://twitter.com/alsoconnor/status/1016877475094192128?s=19
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Jul 11, 2018 04:14
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Ace of Baes posted:the majority of DSA wants to do away with capitalism but has liberal sensibilities or understandings of most things, which makes sense since like 90% of them were liberals up until 6 months-2years ago Yeah that's pretty apt
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Jul 11, 2018 04:20
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He's right
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Jul 11, 2018 04:23
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Thanks all for the links~~~
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Jul 11, 2018 04:26
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big black turnout posted:He's right Deffo, hope we can push her platform left
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Jul 11, 2018 04:26
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:
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Jul 11, 2018 04:27
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It's never been easier to educate yourself politically, the difference between socialism and social democracy is a Google search away and Wikipedia article away and I guarantee you almost all DSA members learn it. It's annoying when leftists act otherwise. However liberal preconceptions that have been drilled into people's heads since childhood are harder to do away with. That's why there's a large difference of ideological opinions in the DSA
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Jul 11, 2018 04:28
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I mean; are there things that Nixon has been BAD on? Because so far her platform seems very very farther to the left than 99% of NYDEM's
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Jul 11, 2018 04:33
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DSA endorse Nixon
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Jul 11, 2018 04:37
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