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Ambaire posted:Also, if you haven't already, check this loving option in Errand Priorities. Your dupes will do all sorts of stupid runarounds until you do. From the description it sounds like disabling the option will prevent dupes from running around too much and letting them stay in the same area, but maybe I'm not interpreting it correctly.
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Jul 8, 2018 04:34
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Fano posted:From the description it sounds like disabling the option will prevent dupes from running around too much and letting them stay in the same area, but maybe I'm not interpreting it correctly. Default is there is an internal list of task priority that breaks ties. Check advanced and it 'disables the default' in favor of proximity based tie breaker.
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Jul 8, 2018 05:17
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Ratzap posted:Reading up on cool water geysers, it'll come out at 110 celcius. Dropping that to 25 to use (any higher will just make my central area hotter again) the wiki recommends thermo regulators but I don't see how that works. Nothing destroys heat, it's all transfers so won't the regulator just melt after a while? Or does ONI break with real physics at some point? There's also the entropy device, it's very far from the geyser but would that be a good way to dump the heat? See my previous stuff about polluted water but the gist of it is that polluted water has about 43% more thermal energy than clean water at the same temperature. Filtering polluted water ignores conservation of energy and just turns the stuff clean, possibly at a lower temperature than it started at to boot. So if you transfer enough heat to drop your clean water from 100 C to 2 C (6 passes through a thermo aqua tuner) the same mass of polluted water will heat up only 68 C. Then you filter the polluted water and most of the thermal energy just goes poof.
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Jul 8, 2018 14:16
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1337JiveTurkey posted:See my previous stuff about polluted water but the gist of it is that polluted water has about 43% more thermal energy than clean water at the same temperature. Filtering polluted water ignores conservation of energy and just turns the stuff clean, possibly at a lower temperature than it started at to boot. So if you transfer enough heat to drop your clean water from 100 C to 2 C (6 passes through a thermo aqua tuner) the same mass of polluted water will heat up only 68 C. Then you filter the polluted water and most of the thermal energy just goes poof. The reason I don’t do this is because it feels too much like an exploit, even though the developers have said it’s working as intended (which is their stance probably because it’s a very low priority thing for them to change). I prefer venting heat to the vacuum of space. It’s a bit more realistic.
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Jul 8, 2018 17:35
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enraged_camel posted:The reason I don’t do this is because it feels too much like an exploit, even though the developers have said it’s working as intended (which is their stance probably because it’s a very low priority thing for them to change). Venting heat to the vacuum of space wasn't an option until the latest update, hence the fixed temperature outputs. Perhaps we'll see that change now that there's another option beyond "the asteroid heats up forever". Assuming you can vent heat to the vacuum of space in the latest update, anyway. I haven't done much playtesting of it... don't like the meteor mechanic.
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Jul 8, 2018 21:53
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You can vent hot materials to the void of space but there's no heat transfer through radiation. Just filter the water and tell yourself that the thermal energy is off frolicking in a Stirling engine upstate where energy is conserved.
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Jul 8, 2018 22:07
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1337JiveTurkey posted:See my previous stuff about polluted water but the gist of it is that polluted water has about 43% more thermal energy than clean water at the same temperature. Filtering polluted water ignores conservation of energy and just turns the stuff clean, possibly at a lower temperature than it started at to boot. So if you transfer enough heat to drop your clean water from 100 C to 2 C (6 passes through a thermo aqua tuner) the same mass of polluted water will heat up only 68 C. Then you filter the polluted water and most of the thermal energy just goes poof. I get you now (and some of what I was reading said the same). Plus insulation round all the hot things so I don't slowly roast.
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Jul 8, 2018 22:50
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1337JiveTurkey posted:You can vent hot materials to the void of space but there's no heat transfer through radiation. Just filter the water and tell yourself that the thermal energy is off frolicking in a Stirling engine upstate where energy is conserved. At Grandpa and Grandma Maxwell's farm. 
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Jul 11, 2018 00:26
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Hoping for some more good content in this Thursday's patch preview. I hope they add room templates that you can create and save globally, so that you can just plump down the whole thing and let it get built as opposed to one building/tile at a time.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:32
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enraged_camel posted:Hoping for some more good content in this Thursday's patch preview. Seriously. Blueprints in Factorio don't spoil players, they set the bar for how to do things. The Dupes cock things up often enough as it is, making me remember how to build something over and over is obnoxious. I got my save to cycle 139 but the geysers turned out to be very disappointing. The cool steam one is more like a damp dribble, I'm so close to running out of water on top of all the other problems that save has it's not even funny. I started trying to melt some ice biome but it's slow going. The nat gas one runs about 1 and 3/4 generators which is fine for now and saves coal. But when the cycle ends, the coal won't last longer. I think they'll starve to death first though. The farms are both too hot to produce anything, the ranch is too small to keep many dupes alive and I have a) no water for mush/meal bars b) the water scraps are rampant with germs. Some drekkos got in when I was building a new O2 plant and wished they hadn't. Hunger maddened dupes tore them apart for meat. I started yet another game to try and incorporate everything I've learned the hard way and the name it was given made me chuckle - Plagued Spaceprison
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Jul 11, 2018 03:22
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Suggestion made with a huge assumption: on one colony try not growing bristle berries. Lately I’ve been going straight from mealwood to mushrooms and it seems to work pretty well. Have only gotten to the low 200s, though. Mushroom farm, 2nd tier bathroom using water-sieved germy water, and minimal cooking and I think the only thing that uses clean water is research.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:33
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Oil wells and electrolizers also use clean water. And ditto on moving from mealwood to mushrooms. Much better than bristleberries: 1. No water requirement 2. No light requirement (helps immensely with heat) 3. Higher heat tolerance so you don’t have to be as careful Number 3 is actually remarkable, because most people’s bristleblooms start wilting due to being fed warm water (usually due to geysers and also using clean water in metal refinery). But since mushrooms use no water, their body temperatures tend to be much more stable. And slime is abundant so the whole setup is very easy to deal with.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:53
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The two-tiered water cleanliness thing is cumbersome. Electrolyzers can use non-polluted but germy water, (I’ve never gotten to oil wells) and by “clean”there I meant non-polluted and non-germy. But now that I think of it, I’ve never checked whether you can use non-polluted but germy water for research.
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Jul 11, 2018 06:03
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:The two-tiered water cleanliness thing is cumbersome. Electrolyzers can use non-polluted but germy water, (I’ve never gotten to oil wells) and by “clean”there I meant non-polluted and non-germy. I just implemented a simple water sieve loop for my current base, so it only took me 5 minutes to test this. The super computer will take germ-infested non-polluted water and it will function without problems. One load of water will give it at least 50.000 germs, so usually the super computer will get disinfected by a dupe immediately. It seems very risky to leave an active pitcher pump up in germy water tho 
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Jul 11, 2018 12:13
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Mierenneuker posted:I just implemented a simple water sieve loop for my current base, so it only took me 5 minutes to test this. The super computer will take germ-infested non-polluted water and it will function without problems. One load of water will give it at least 50.000 germs, so usually the super computer will get disinfected by a dupe immediately. It seems very risky to leave an active pitcher pump up in germy water tho Why? If you're feeding plants then the only thing that matters is temperatures: plants kill germs. It would only be important if you have handwash basins, or are making food with the microbial masher.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:15
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Alkydere posted:Why? If you're feeding plants then the only thing that matters is temperatures: plants kill germs. It would only be important if you have handwash basins, or are making food with the microbial masher. Mealwood sadly uses water and it's so drat easy to feed dupes with. Research is a massive water hog but it's finished with by cycle 50 at least. I have a small sealed pool next to the kitchen with a pump in it fed by my clean water to make liceloaf. That save is starting to struggle though because I can't find an ice biome around me - I want wheezeworts and ice. Though I have tackled a slime biome for the first time successfully. I have plenty of coal, algae no problem and can think about mushrooms soon (first clear to the nat gas geyser and build a room round it.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:31
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Edit: oh you meant cooked mealwood. This probably isn’t optimal, but I usually just don’t bother cooking.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:51
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Is there a way to have your cook cycling through multiple things without having to build multiple stations? I want to not have to queue up grilled bristle and then replace with pickled lice every time for example.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:40
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dogstile posted:Is there a way to have your cook cycling through multiple things without having to build multiple stations? nope
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Jul 11, 2018 17:49
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dogstile posted:Is there a way to have your cook cycling through multiple things without having to build multiple stations? Pickling lice is bad unless you're trying to skimp on water. The pickled stuff is the worst quality possible. Just eating it raw is better because it's the same quality but doesn't cost any work. Plus (stolen verbatim from the wiki) "Meal lice gains 500 calories when turned into Liceloaf for 50Kg water versus having the same amount calories when turned into Pickled Meal." For 50kg of water and some work you gain an easy mood boost, worth it IMO.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:53
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temple posted:nope
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Jul 11, 2018 17:56
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I just have everything queued up infinitely on the same station and it seems to just work? If they're out of something they move on to the next. Maybe it doesn't and I don't pay any attention because I haven't promoted enough dupes to care about fancy food but I seem to have stuffed berry and berry sludge when I have spice or grain and grilled berry when I dont.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:18
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The cooking menu could really do with some outright thievery from Rimworld. One menu with things like "fry up some dirt until you have 20 pieces in storage, then work on something else until it gets down to 5 pieces" would go a loooooong way towards making me hate it less. My current colony is at 70ish cycles and I still feel totally reactive, lurching from crisis to crisis or finishing one up and seeing another coming on the horizon that I have to start preparing for. Really hope I get to a steady-state colony soon. There's a ton of rebuilding and design tweaks I want to do for efficiency and organization. I keep having to do things like slap down generators quickly in odd ball locations outside of my heavy wire backbone or quick run ventilation/plumbing all over the place to get an overflowing poop pond taken care of super quick. It's making my twitchy neat freak instinct bug out all the time.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:18
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zedprime posted:I just have everything queued up infinitely on the same station and it seems to just work? If they're out of something they move on to the next.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:43
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I finally got my first colony past cycle 50~, up to ~230.. but I did cheat and turn off mood and germs.. I'll try hardmode again after I manage to melt this colony! It kinda sucks a little stumbling around a bit blind when it comes to some of the stations etc, I got to like cycle 150 before I realized I could refine metal with the crushinator thingy instead of all the time I spent trying to figure out how I could setup and support a refinery.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:01
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Splicer posted:Unless I missed something in the last few updates it doesn't. It doesn't. I abandoned one of my early attempts because I did something like this and I couldn't figure out why everyone was starving. I queued up infinity lice bars and infinite mush bars. I wasn't growing enough meal lice and I was hoping that they'd make mush bars as an emergency backup. The result is they weren't making anything.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:17
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Long term I hope they put in enough to make it possible to have a self sustaining colony. I know it's supposed to be a survival game while you head to the surface etc but I like the 'ant farm' aspect a lot too. I'd really like to be able to build something with less stress and just let it run knowing it's not going to implode.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:25
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It's totally possible to build something that sustains itself for thousands of cycles.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:33
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If they added heat radiators for gradually emitting heat to space, you would just about be able to have an infinitely sustainable colony with space as the endgame, as a source of solar power and as a heat sink. In concept at least. But in practice there are just enough ways in which matter is permanently lost that it seems like you gradually bleed out even with perfect setups. I'm okay with this, but it would be cool to one day have a win condition to try to work towards.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:43
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Tomorrow the latest update should arrive on the test branch, can't wait! Wonder what it will be? Sure hope they do some more tuning.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:52
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enraged_camel posted:Here's my power setup: Finally went ahead and tried this setup tonight, it works really really well, thanks for the tip! Very early colony so I currently have no need for more than 2 circuits, but I like how this turned out:   
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Jul 12, 2018 06:03
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Hey enraged camel did you get an answer about the roadmap? Also new test build should drop today and they usually stream at 3:30 PDT, so I'll be watching.
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Jul 12, 2018 15:34
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Fano posted:Finally went ahead and tried this setup tonight, it works really really well, thanks for the tip! There's another way to do this that I've found slightly more efficient on heat and energy drain (and fuel) which is to have smart batteries in parallel connected directly to the generators, but set each battery to a different level for each generator, so it only turns on multiple generators when the batteries get much lower. Might be easier to use 1 battery per 1~2 generators. You don't want to run ALL of the generators when most of the batteries are already full. Also it's better not to have the generators to switch on/off constantly because after the batteries are full it takes a tick for the "battery=full" to change the logic signal and another tick to shut down the generator, which wastes a bit of fuel. So first generator is set to run at 80~99%, second and third are 50~95, third, fourth and fifth to 40~90. And set the generators to a high (task) priority and fill at 100% so the generators aren't sitting there with no fuel when you need them running. Separately from this, on the low-voltage side of each transformer have a smart battery to hold charge within that circuit and set the battery to activate at 25~99. This reduces the heat produced because the transformers are only ever on when the circuit needs juice. And the circuit-batteries are charging from the generator-batteries so there's a buffer and generators can run constantly when there's a lot of load, but only as many as needed. Of course it's a lot easier to do this once you've found a metal volcano and have enough spare refined metal to make another smartbattery per circuit. The power wasted from having more batteries almost always produces less heat/etc than running transformers/generators when they aren't needed. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 15:59
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Ratzap posted:Pickling lice is bad unless you're trying to skimp on water. The pickled stuff is the worst quality possible. Just eating it raw is better because it's the same quality but doesn't cost any work. Plus (stolen verbatim from the wiki) "Meal lice gains 500 calories when turned into Liceloaf for 50Kg water versus having the same amount calories when turned into Pickled Meal." I was just using the two foods i could remember off the top of my head, lol
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Jul 12, 2018 16:18
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Test branch is up https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/93409-expressive-upgrade-testing-branch-is-now-open-277292/
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Jul 12, 2018 20:01
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Seems like a very disappointing update.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:20
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I dunno, it's nice to have them interact with each other more and overhaul their happiness/expectation system. The last few updates have just been unusually good so yeah in comparison it's a little bit of a letdown.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:22
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silentsnack posted:There's another way to do this that I've found slightly more efficient on heat and energy drain (and fuel) which is to have smart batteries in parallel connected directly to the generators, but set each battery to a different level for each generator, so it only turns on multiple generators when the batteries get much lower. Might be easier to use 1 battery per 1~2 generators. That's exactly what this setup I posted earlier does, try it: metasynthetic posted:Smart batteries are loving amazing, they make such a huge difference to both dupe labor and fuel efficiency: All the batteries, generators, and transformer inputs are on a common heavy wire circuit. The first battery is set from 75% - 95% and turns on the hydros, the 2nd is 60% - 95% and turn on both the nat gas + hydros, the 3rd is 50% - 95% and turns on the coal + nat gas + hydro. This setup with 3 battieries had no problems supplying a base that was running around 1.5 - 2kw during daytime, and keeping life support / other stuff on at night. metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 20:27
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its stuff people have asked for. i wish it had more depth. i'm taking a break until some stuff gets fixed or the game is released.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:28
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Just seems to me they are ripping stuff off of RimWorld at this point. Schedules? Interactions? Bleh. Give us actual technological progress, new tech tiers, etc. I want to build god drat spaceships, not micromanage dupe moods. If I wanted to do the latter I'd go play RimWorld.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:33
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