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Luhood posted:In short, if you don't want to ruin our country AGAIN you ought to vote Moderate. I wouldn't call either the Imperialist or Royalists self-sabotaging like that delbierately trying to trigger the revolution crap, but ruining the country and doing poorly is what makes stuff fun. Getting socialists in power, passing all social reforms by 1880 and building trains everywhere is BORING to the extreme. Fun is chaos, unrest, rivalry, hellwars and actually losing sometimes. frankenfreak posted:If only there was a way to know for sure, maybe by way of someone making a post to keep us up to date with what's going on in the game. I think Andalucia is like the least industrialized of all the great powers though.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:07
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Patter Song posted:Given that we're 20 years into the game with Moderate rule and Hashim never got the Mechanical Production tech, I'm not sure our factories are really something we're ever going to get off the ground. LF will almost certainly bankrupt all our factories, but at the moment it looks like they're pretty much just "places we keep open so people have somewhere to work" rather than centers of actually doing stuff. drat it, and I thought I'd gotten the early industry techs we needed. If the royalists/imperialists get their essential techs quick enough, I'll make sure to grab Mechanical Production as well, for future use if nothing else.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:14
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Randarkman posted:I think Andalucia is like the least industrialized of all the great powers though. Hashim posted:General State of the Nation We are doing better than Russia, but our industrialization isn't great overall. Despite getting steamrolled by the Dual Monarchy in the last war, Hannover is doing pretty good. I'm a bit curious how Ibriz is doing.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:15
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Hashim posted:drat it, and I thought I'd gotten the early industry techs we needed. If the royalists/imperialists get their essential techs quick enough, I'll make sure to grab Mechanical Production as well, for future use if nothing else. It turns out the greatest enemy to Al Andalus's future rightful prosperity is Hashim's bad play. 
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Jul 12, 2018 17:16
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Royalists because that liberal party is the loving worst
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Jul 12, 2018 17:27
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Randarkman posted:I wouldn't call either the Imperialist or Royalists self-sabotaging like that delbierately trying to trigger the revolution crap, but ruining the country and doing poorly is what makes stuff fun. Getting socialists in power, passing all social reforms by 1880 and building trains everywhere is BORING to the extreme. Ehhhh I mean we spent like all of EU4 on the ropes. I think people are a little tired of Unmitigated Disaster at this point. It DOES get old eventually.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:28
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Captain Oblivious posted:Ehhhh I mean we spent like all of EU4 on the ropes. I think people are a little tired of Unmitigated Disaster at this point. It DOES get old eventually. That's why we should vote Royalist and reclaim our goddamn land! 
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Jul 12, 2018 17:32
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Hashim posted:drat it, and I thought I'd gotten the early industry techs we needed. If the royalists/imperialists get their essential techs quick enough, I'll make sure to grab Mechanical Production as well, for future use if nothing else. Hmmm... Well, we already have some military techs..........
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Jul 12, 2018 17:36
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frankenfreak posted:If only there was a way to know for sure, maybe by way of someone making a post to keep us up to date with what's going on in the game. Not knowing the details of what's going on in your country is entirely within the spirit of Vicky 2. Embrace the black box help me bully the op into using the useless forign investment mechanic.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:45
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I just registered an account, solely to say: This LP was/is amazing, and the amount of effort you've put into this is pretty great. That said, mob rule has failed Iberia and anyone who votes anything but the Royalists wants us to fail.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:46
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Royalist again.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:55
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Agean90 posted:Not knowing the details of what's going on in your country is entirely within the spirit of Vicky 2. Acktually that mechanic is the #1 way to keep an enterprising up and coming 8th place GP from losing their spot at the table. Also unironically well placed railroads/railroad spam (especially in your sphere or places you're trying to sphere) turbocharges the economy.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:11
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I think V2 is the first game in this LP where so many people have been so unsure as to what the game mechanics are, which effects they have, and whether or not they are good to do.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:20
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crimea posted:I think V2 is the first game in this LP where so many people have been so unsure as to what the game mechanics are, which effects they have, and whether or not they are good to do. That's why I love Vicky 2, it's just like real life!
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Jul 12, 2018 18:23
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crimea posted:I think V2 is the first game in this LP where so many people have been so unsure as to what the game mechanics are, which effects they have, and whether or not they are good to do. look at these spoiled brats with their modern bullshit
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Jul 12, 2018 18:24
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Patter Song posted:Given that we're 20 years into the game with Moderate rule and Hashim never got the Mechanical Production tech, I'm not sure our factories are really something we're ever going to get off the ground. LF will almost certainly bankrupt all our factories, but at the moment it looks like they're pretty much just "places we keep open so people have somewhere to work" rather than centers of actually doing stuff. I have little in the way of experience with Vicky, but aren't factories subsidized working places until the 1900s?
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Jul 12, 2018 18:42
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We're so going to end up in a massive revolt that destroys any chance we ever had for unifying the peninsula because the Royalists are going to clamp down SO HARD on any type of liberalization. And everyone is saying we need to do that so as to avoid LF... when our industry is pretty crap already and we've at least gotten our railroads up and running. Did no one notice that Hashim posted a non-canon screenshot where the Royalists created a 1 party state and legalized slavery? No one? A bunch of Berber wannabes we got here.
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Jul 12, 2018 18:52
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Royalist For a safe and secure future.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:08
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Imperialists, as much good as it may do us.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:31
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habeasdorkus posted:We're so going to end up in a massive revolt that destroys any chance we ever had for unifying the peninsula because the Royalists are going to clamp down SO HARD on any type of liberalization. And everyone is saying we need to do that so as to avoid LF... when our industry is pretty crap already and we've at least gotten our railroads up and running. Actually opposition to it is p much part of the national identity, isn't it? Weren't we the first to outlaw it? And our most hated enemies are its main proponent.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:38
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I feel like, after that last war and the failure to gain anything from it, the people of the country would be feeling rather Royalist. Also, as an aside, has Hashim released the Vicky 2 scenario yet, or only the EU4 one? Reading this excellent LP has made me want to go industrialize a country again, but I feel like I've played almost every country in that base game a few times already.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:40
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RubricMarine posted:I feel like, after that last war and the failure to gain anything from it, the people of the country would be feeling rather Royalist. Try HFM for a much more flavorful version of Vanilla, Divergences of Darkness for the most well developed althist (is stuck on PDM economic base atm though), a cold war mod for giggles, or the zombie apoc mod to change up the gameplay bigly.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:43
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Comedy option: There's the Azeri V2 mod that I still have. Since Victoria never has updates it works.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:51
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It's been so long since I've played without HPM I've forgotten which events are actually vanilla and which were added in that mod
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Jul 12, 2018 19:56
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Another reason to vote Imperialist: We're still lacking the economy tech that gives us an invention with a full 50% farming efficiency bonus.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:58
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Oh yeah the Azeri/Srbja/Hansa mods are all fun for a couple spins, especially if you followed the LPs to that point.
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Jul 12, 2018 19:59
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Rodyle posted:He did explicitly say that the Royalists wouldn't legalize slavery. I read it as he wouldn't let the Royalists legalize slavery, not that they wouldn't try to legalize slavery. It's entirely possible that I'm mistaken.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:02
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sheep-dodger posted:Another reason to vote Imperialist: We're still lacking the economy tech that gives us an invention with a full 50% farming efficiency bonus. we can't get that till 1860 IIRC, Fertilizers are under the 3rd chemistry tech.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:07
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Nothingtoseehere posted:we can't get that till 1860 IIRC, Fertilizers are under the 3rd chemistry tech. Naw, that's the third tech on the furthest left of commerce. Some banking thing.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:13
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Nothingtoseehere posted:we can't get that till 1860 IIRC, Fertilizers are under the 3rd chemistry tech. no, we want the invention Distribution channels. That's triggered by the third tech in the left column of the commerce techs and gives a straight farming bonus to the entire country. It's really good.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:16
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sheep-dodger posted:no, we want the invention Distribution channels. That's triggered by the third tech in the left column of the commerce techs and gives a straight farming bonus to the entire country. It's really good. Yeah, the Business Banks tech has an invention titled Distribution Channels. Straight-up +50% to Farming Output. Also, if we don't elect the Liberals at some point, we're going to lag behind on the rest of those Commerce tree techs, which are really important for the economy in other ways. (Though you can pretty much ignore the second column of Commerce) And speaking of things the Imperialists can do for our economy, the Steamers tech on the Naval tree (same tech that opens up Commerce Raiders and Steam Transports) has an invention that dramatically increases fish output. IIRC, we have a lot of fish, so that's a worthwhile goal.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:23
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Yeah it seems like lots of people have an itchy trigger finger after that war. Being able to stomp Morocco like that and not have anything to show for it makes me (and probably others) feel like Al Andalus needs to take the wheel. This vote is a tough one because, as someone unfamiliar with the game, it really feels like every choice has something distinctly good to offer. Other posters in the thread have presented some real compelling arguments for/against each party.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:32
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Bah. I'll change my vote to the Imperialists, then, if only to avoid undermining our... constitutional monarchy that definitely isn't a republic. Those top-hatted bastards better not gently caress it up though.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:46
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the party effects on pop assimilation. IIRC, the residency & moralism of the royalists encourages minority groups to assimilate into andalusi pops, whereas the liberal positions actively discourage assimilation. This matters in Victoria 2 because it will affect the size of later revolts, and also controls who can be promoted to higher class professions etc. Been a while since I was actually good at the game so I may be remembering some of that wrong though, please do call me out if it's incorrect.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:47
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Captain Mediocre posted:One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the party effects on pop assimilation. IIRC, the residency & moralism of the royalists encourages minority groups to assimilate into andalusi pops, whereas the liberal positions actively discourage assimilation. This matters in Victoria 2 because it will affect the size of later revolts, and also controls who can be promoted to higher class professions etc. Moralism has no impact, but as far as assimilation goes, it's the exact opposite. citizenship_policy = { residency = { rules = { primary_culture_voting = yes } } limited_citizenship = { rules = { culture_voting = yes } global_assimilation_rate = 0.10 } full_citizenship = { rules = { all_voting = yes } global_assimilation_rate = 0.25 Obviously, the mod Hashim is working with changes the voting rules to be like he describes (Hashim's game has Residency be Primary culture full votes while Accepted culture half votes, Limited as Primary and Accepted full votes and unaccepted half votes, and Full as everyone has full votes) but the assimilation rate is probably the same. Limited Citizenship provides a very slight assimilation boost, while Full Citizenship provides a larger one.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:51
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Patter Song posted:Moralism has no impact, but as far as assimilation goes, it's the exact opposite. That's mental. I've played hundreds of hours of that game believing the opposite, because in my head if you're a minority, not having any rights is sort of a carrot/stick to assimilate into the accepted culture 
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Jul 12, 2018 20:53
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puppets freak me out posted:Yeah it seems like lots of people have an itchy trigger finger after that war. Being able to stomp Morocco like that and not have anything to show for it makes me (and probably others) feel like Al Andalus needs to take the wheel. To be more accurate both options have something incredibly poo poo and it's hard to know which one is worse: Royalists will avoid researching some extremely critical techs to enable colonisation later and to boost economic output, and will not pass liberal reforms, so our population will start to get really pissed off Imperalists will avoid researching critical army techs which (based on the last war) will ensure that we maintain our superior army quality, and their LF policy will cause our factories to all shut down. Moderates are a bad choice at the moment since we really should be angling to go to war one way or another and we have all of the active techs which boost research and education already which are the super important ones.
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Jul 12, 2018 20:56
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The earlier we reconquer our cores the better. If full democracy is ever introduced, our population will be massively jingoist anyway and if you pansies delay the rightful liberation further, it’ll just lead to a fascist coup sooner or later. It also allows us to directly control the growth of those territories, and would allow us to apply both our existing pop growth modifiers, and our future ones too. A united Iberia is a real tough nut to crack, and sets us up nicely for when wars begin favouring defenders immensely. We made the choice to acquire cores on all of Iberia. Let’s not dilly dally now!
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Jul 12, 2018 21:24
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crimea posted:I think V2 is the first game in this LP where so many people have been so unsure as to what the game mechanics are, which effects they have, and whether or not they are good to do. The thing is that there are many, many, many different modifiers and values that greatly impact the way the behind-the-scenes simulation runs but not very many easy ways to determine what those values are or what they do. Whereas in other games you could more or less guess what's happening when you get something new and what impact it has, in Vicky 2 there could be like 8 different things improving at short arbitrary intervals that don't do anything noticeable on their own but have a huge impact when combined with each other. And because so many of these modifiers come from inventions rather than directly from a completed tech it can be hard to keep track of all the incremental changes that build up over the course of a game since all you really get is an invention popup to tell you that your RGO output went up 50% or something. It's a deep hole to get into to try and understand the various game systems and how they interlink with each other, and it's a daunting task that isn't for everyone. But man is it satisfying to get a hold on at least some of it, even if Paradox AI likes to strike more often than you'd like.
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Jul 12, 2018 21:44
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 Majlis Reshuffling closed!Royalists - 55 - ThatBasqueGuy, loving love Fiona Apple, Lord Cyrahzax, crimea, RabidWeasel, CommissarMega, Captain Oblivious, Snipee, Ralepozozaxe, rarx, Innocent_Bystander, Pakled, Hitlers Gay Secret, Mr.Fahrenheit, Slaan, Rodyle, Nothingtoseehere, QuoProQuid, Archaeology Hat, Clayren, Super Jay Mann, PetraCore, ZearothK, punched my v-card at camp, Top Hats Monthly, Tiger Crazy, The Bold Kobold, Flavius Aetass, Wyvernil, catlord, rudecyrus, Erwin the German, Nine of Eight, devildragon777, Cerebral Bore, AJ_Impy, Grillfiend, Chatrapati, mcclay, Pump it up! Do it!, Crazy Joe Wilson, frankenfreak, the_seventh_cohort, Dance Officer, Mr_Autoshades, Raserys, Anzrel, Demon Of The Fall, Randarkman, ChrisAsmadi, Captain Mediocre, Red John, iLurk, RestRoomLiterature-, RubricMarine. Moderates - 3 - tombom, Frionnel, Luhood. Imperialists - 43 - Zikan, Grizzwold, Ikasuhito, Mirdini, paragon1, Talas, Eleven Eleven, Soup du Jour, sheep-dodger, Tricky Dick Nixon, Mantis42, aqu, Danny Glands, GSD, HiHo ChiRho, Yvonmukluk, Pacho, NewMars, Mr.Morgenstern, Agean90, YOUR UNCOOL NIECE, Patter Song, Technowolf, everydayfalls, habeasdorkus, Aeromancia, Rubix Squid, puppets freak me out, Jihad Joe, Picard Day, Morrow, Kaptain, Hutter, Odysseus S. Grant, WilliamAnderson, V. Illych L., Crazycryodude, Lynneth, GunnerJ, TyrsHTML, Captain Oblivious, Josef bugman, MaxieSatan. As expected, this session is dominated by the more aggressive parties, with the moderates losing pretty much everyone to the Royalists and Imperialists. Looks like colonisation efforts will continue to take a backfoot though, with the Royalists controlling the Majlis for the next decade, so we'll be focusing heavily on European expansion and army technology (with the occasional industry or commerce tech tossed in there). The question of the Dual Monarchy vs. South German Union seems more up in the air though, with plenty feeling aggrieved by the DM but also unwilling to break the alliance, so I can try and keep them and the SGU as allies for as long as possible (if we don't choose one though, one of them will end up breaking their alliance with us instead). It's also important to look to the future with this: the DM is undoubtedly the strongest power in Europe after their victory, but the potential unifier of Germany has a decent chance of stealing that crown, so you never know.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:01
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