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Just wanted to vent a bit. Am I the only one tired of companies ghosting me? Like, it's not just me, this is hysterically unprofessional, right? Had an in-person interview Monday after a series of phone interviews - spent around 2.5-3 hours talking to department managers, senior employees, HR people, etc. I thought it went reasonably well, aside that their management structure is different than my current employer. Ended up with my main HR contact saying he'd contact me Wednesday at 4:30pm as we'd previously discussed how I wanted to try to hold to various hours to avoid cheating my current employer. Sent some thank you followup emails, waited for the call. Nothing. Sent a polite email about an hour after the scheduled time to the sense of wanting to follow up, excited about the opportunity, etc, said I'd try to call during business hours the next day. Nothing. Called during business hours, left a voicemail to the same sort of thing, nothing. No response from anyone I emailed either. HR guy had previously responded to anything I contacted him about within an hour or two. Just what the gently caress? This is about the 5th-6th time I've gotten ghosted during this job hunt, and unless I'm completely and totally oblivious every time was after some contact that seemed like it went relatively well, with the person I contacted saying they'd get back to me at a specific time.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:20
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This happens to me pretty regularly too. Usually not after that long of an in-person interview, but definitely after tons of phone screens with hiring managers that I thought went well. It's lovely, but they are probably really busy interviewing multiple candidates, along with doing their normal job. You may have just been lost in the shuffle of todos. Or they might be on the fence about whether to outright reject you or not because they are waiting on a candidate they like slightly better. Either way, follow ups to reject people are the lowest priority for most places so it can take awhile to happen.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:34
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I've unintentionally ghosted candidates but usually its because some budget fuckup happened and I am trying to scramble to get the money I thought I had at the beginning of the hiring process. Or I ended up interviewing 2 candidates, hired 1, but liked the 2nd enough to see if I could find a spot and never actually do. I don't know about your situation, but sometimes other things happen.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:42
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My most recent experience was an interview where they asked me to brush up on a topic outside my area of expertise that they planned to specialize in moving forward, and then do a work-along day. I went in expecting it to be a test of team chemistry and my ability to learn. Ended up working a day for free and teaching them a bunch about this thing their firm supposedly does professionally (and I had two evenings worth of research on). So I demonstrated a rare ability to self-teach and lead projects, clicked with everyone, and I have 4 years relevant experience. Got an insultingly low part-time offer with no responsibility that you might offer a college student. Countered politely, never even got an answer to the counteroffer. Never heard from them again. Ghosting seems to be the standard, it's not just you. I'm pleasantly surprised when I get a rejection letter. Just use the same meat grinder approach that you would with online dating. =( Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 14:50
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Ghosting applicants you’ve decided not to hire is super standard now. From the HR person’s standpoint it’s just unecessary work, plus while maybe you wouldn’t turn into a megapest and/or go totally off the deep end upon receiving a rejection email/call, enough other people do that HR people have collectively decided it ain’t worth it. Why go looking for extra trouble and extra work? e: the online dating comparison isn’t completely without merit, ghosting unwanted applicants is common in both arenas for similar reasons. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 14:59
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Unsinkabear posted:Just use the same meat grinder approach that you would with online dating. =( Get lucky after a few tries and find a woman I get along with and have been married to for 6 years now?  Seriously though, the thing that really gets me about this is that this is something like the 4th position I've applied for at this company - they're a direct competitor to my current employer so I have a few years of 100% directly relevant experience, but I've been careful to cherrypick positions where I wouldn't run afoul of noncompete stuff. This is the farthest I've gotten in the process, but it's usually been the same HR guy who's been contacting me and from all appearances he actually knows who I am, knows by now where I'm at in terms of salary expectations, etc. It's a smallish industry, I'm in a relatively unusual place in it especially for what I'm asking for, but they just burned me. What's the payoff? I know, I know, corporate America doesn't actually care much about finding the "right" candidate.
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Jul 13, 2018 15:08
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The right candidate is either An executive’s relative/college buddy/booty call (75%) or The cheapest candidate (25%)
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Jul 13, 2018 15:27
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Eric the Mauve posted:The right candidate is either And if you are willingly the cheapest candidate you're stricken from the list because that makes them suspicious. You have to not only be the cheapest, you can't realize you're the cheapest.
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Jul 13, 2018 15:47
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Krispy Wafer posted:And if you are willingly the cheapest candidate you're stricken from the list because that makes them suspicious. Goddamn this poo poo makes me sick to my stomach (not you Krispy, just in general).
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Jul 13, 2018 15:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:When I wrote my last post I was thinking of just seeing “freelancer” on a resume with no specifics (which company/companies, what exactly did you do, etc.) which is a red flag. But your situation is pretty common. Yeah, that was the position I was in before, just with a blurb of 'Worked for companies XYZ, ZXY, ABC during this time', instead of planning on changing that to individual sections for each of the relevant companies with some kind of blurb (2016-2017, 2017-2018 (contract)) Appreciate the advice, been making more of an effort to be more on my toes about this kind of thing in general and feel like in retrospect there were a massive number of things I took for granted when it came to finding my previous jobs.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:08
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Matt Zerella posted:Goddamn this poo poo makes me sick to my stomach (not you Krispy, just in general). And it's also not necessarily correct. Plenty of hiring managers hire the best candidate for the job and if that person lowballs themselves will even advocate for more because it's expensive to interview and hire people. No one wants to hire someone who is just going to jump ship six months later. The places that try and screw you on money get into feedback loops where they offer below-market wages because everyone they hire just quits six months later anyway so why offer more money. Or they got real lucky in 2010 offering poo poo money for good talent and can't figure out why those tactics aren't working in 2018. My wife is a hiring manager and I've seen her go out of her way multiple times to get a better offer for a candidate. I've also watched her get talked down from firing a guy just out of college because he missed his drug test appointment twice, so it's not like she's the type of manager who wants to be everyone's friend.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:13
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mekilljoydammit posted:Just wanted to vent a bit. If it makes you feel better, employers are starting to get a taste of their medicine-especially in entry level jobs. With unemployment being so low, entry level applicants have a ton of choices so often they accept a job and then when something better comes along they just stop communicating.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:16
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savesthedayrocks posted:With unemployment being so low, entry level applicants have a ton of choices so often they accept a job and then when something better comes along they just stop communicating. Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 16:47
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I have a second interview on Monday at a MSP for a senior engineer position. I really do not want to do MSP work but at this point I'm sock of being unemployed. My dad got me a gig as a bartender at his Masonic lodge and that's actually been kinda nice. I'm going to try to find out what they expect of me in the role at the MSP. What their performance metrics are. If it's project based or ticket based. But I really want them to show me the money because of all the horror stories I've heard about this line of work.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:52
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Krispy Wafer posted:And it's also not necessarily correct. Plenty of hiring managers hire the best candidate for the job and if that person lowballs themselves will even advocate for more because it's expensive to interview and hire people. No one wants to hire someone who is just going to jump ship six months later. The places that try and screw you on money get into feedback loops where they offer below-market wages because everyone they hire just quits six months later anyway so why offer more money. Or they got real lucky in 2010 offering poo poo money for good talent and can't figure out why those tactics aren't working in 2018. Yeah, I am a hiring manager and usually I have a range of salary someone has to fit in. I don't get any sort of kickback or brownie points for lowballing someone so usually if their asking salary is in that range we're good to go. Most corporate hiring practices are similar. This is why you shouldn't lowball yourself when asking for salary.
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Jul 13, 2018 21:39
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Love Stole the Day posted:I graduated a year early in '10 with a STEM degree and am still looking for that entry level job Goon project time, let's found a fake startup so we can pretend to have work history.   
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Jul 16, 2018 15:06
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hailthefish posted:Goon project time, let's found a fake startup so we can pretend to have work history. I worked for my dad's consulting thing for a while for that same reason. Probably only reason I got into having real jobs. Yay recession - weren't engineering jobs supposed to be economy-proof?
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Jul 16, 2018 16:07
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mekilljoydammit posted:I worked for my dad's consulting thing for a while for that same reason. Probably only reason I got into having real jobs. Yay recession - weren't engineering jobs supposed to be economy-proof? Good engineers engineer their way into employment.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:31
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Bisty Q. posted:Should I use a resume review/writing service? Disregarding this suggestion here, but does anyone know of a reputable resume service that caters to tech, web, or design? I thought the forums had a dude who helped out with this but I can't recall where to find them. My resume just isn't getting any love.
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Jul 17, 2018 19:13
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Any pointers for the interview question of "what do you bring to [company]?" Type interview questions. I've have no idea because I'm so junior, but I think my answers have all been really weak regardless.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:10
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text me a vag pic posted:Disregarding this suggestion here, but does anyone know of a reputable resume service that caters to tech, web, or design? I thought the forums had a dude who helped out with this but I can't recall where to find them. My resume just isn't getting any love. I think that dude sold his company?
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Jul 17, 2018 22:22
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There's this resume review service: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2832510
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Jul 17, 2018 23:32
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I'm in the middle of a very interesting interview process for an IT position with a charter school network. First, instead of a phone interview, I did a video interview. Basically had to record myself answering a series of typical interview questions. It was kind of fun! Today I went in for the next step in the process - an immersion day. I was there for 4 hours and they had a bunch of different tasks and activities to do and then they asked me questions and gave me feedback about them. The first task was about doing a bunch of stuff in PowerSchool, the student information system they use - basic things like updating the school calendar, fixing attendance records, enrolling a new student. Second task was about responding to emails and task prioritization - I was given 5 emails and had to rank in what order I'd respond to them and in what order would I complete the action requested and write a rationale for each. Third task was responding to a sample email, describing to the person how to complete a certain process. They also had me take this strengths finder quiz and discuss the results. I've never had so much fun at an interview. I'm really really hoping I get the job. I did get an email tonight from the lady who would be my direct manager asking me to meet for breakfast on Thursday to talk further in a more relaxed environment.  fingers crossed!Oh also yesterday I had an interview at a tiny msp that pays less than crap. So let's hope I don't have to take the hell desk job
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Jul 18, 2018 04:00
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Thinking of taking a pay cut to take a job that hopefully will more directly lead to the jobs I want. It’s a 10% paycut and I’m already poor
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Jul 18, 2018 05:15
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Jyrraeth posted:Any pointers for the interview question of "what do you bring to [company]?" Type interview questions. I've have no idea because I'm so junior, but I think my answers have all been really weak regardless. Talk a lot about growth and what you think you can do in 5 years. If it's a IT Sys Admin job talk about how you can see yourself finding ways of cutting budget, or providing a point of view moving to the cloud. Another good thing would be talking about how you think you can provide leadership on the team. If you have some leadership examples from school that is a good place to bring them up. Sound confident when answering this question, and use it to make them believe you are looking for a career instead of a job.
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Jul 18, 2018 15:35
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Xguard86 posted:I think that dude sold his company? That fool! Didn't he know I might need him someday eventually? sim posted:There's this resume review service: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2832510 Thanks!
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Jul 18, 2018 15:38
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Thinking of taking a pay cut to take a job that hopefully will more directly lead to the jobs I want. Can you afford to be 10% poorer if this other job doesn't end up giving you the career advancement that you want?
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Jul 18, 2018 15:43
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C-Euro posted:Can you afford to be 10% poorer if this other job doesn't end up giving you the career advancement that you want? Barely. The thing is the job is public sector and it's tough to get public sector jobs in my field without public sector experience, which I don't have. So while this job is unlikely to give me the raises I need, having 6-18 months of it on my resume should theoretically make me a much stronger candidate for other public sector jobs in my field.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:33
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what's your earnings trajectory in other public sector jobs? what's the time to pay this off?
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Jul 18, 2018 18:09
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:I'm in the middle of a very interesting interview process for an IT position with a charter school network. First, instead of a phone interview, I did a video interview. Basically had to record myself answering a series of typical interview questions. It was kind of fun! That sounds like a great interview process. The video portion is probably a big time saver for hiring managers as well; they can pull the cord on a good resume:obvious bad fit candidate after a few minutes instead of spending 30 mins-1 hr to finish out the call/meeting.
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Jul 18, 2018 18:23
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Barely. The thing is the job is public sector and it's tough to get public sector jobs in my field without public sector experience, which I don't have. So while this job is unlikely to give me the raises I need, having 6-18 months of it on my resume should theoretically make me a much stronger candidate for other public sector jobs in my field. How open are you to relocating 6-18 months down the road when you're back on the market? If you're looking to climb the ladder in public service at a comparable rate to the private sector (as opposed to grabbing a job and sitting in it for 20+ years) then you're probably going to need to move around a little. Also make sure you include your benefits into account; depending on how your insurance is now and how the public sector insurance is, you might not take as much of a hit as salary alone suggests. (Also if you opt out of a public sector pension, your retirement contributions tend to vest immediately and the employer match is often pretty good vs. a private sector employer.)
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Jul 18, 2018 20:03
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Lockback posted:Talk a lot about growth and what you think you can do in 5 years. If it's a IT Sys Admin job talk about how you can see yourself finding ways of cutting budget, or providing a point of view moving to the cloud. Another good thing would be talking about how you think you can provide leadership on the team. If you have some leadership examples from school that is a good place to bring them up. Thanks for the example. I happen to be engineering but IT is closer to this stuff than the examples I got from the provincial career counselling centre. I have an awful time thinking about my career because my honest feelings are "not unemployed" for my 5 year plan.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what's your earnings trajectory in other public sector jobs? what's the time to pay this off? This specific public sector job is around 90% of my current earnings, but if I can hop to another public sector job in a year I will likely be around 150% of my current earnings. Cockblocktopus posted:How open are you to relocating 6-18 months down the road when you're back on the market? If you're looking to climb the ladder in public service at a comparable rate to the private sector (as opposed to grabbing a job and sitting in it for 20+ years) then you're probably going to need to move around a little. For my field the public sector actually pays a bit more than comparable private sector jobs (until you start hitting upper management). I definitely need to be open to moving around more. I'm okay relocating for a year or two, but I want to come back to the PNW. My family is here, my significant other is here, and I eventually want to run for office here. quote:Also make sure you include your benefits into account; depending on how your insurance is now and how the public sector insurance is, you might not take as much of a hit as salary alone suggests. (Also if you opt out of a public sector pension, your retirement contributions tend to vest immediately and the employer match is often pretty good vs. a private sector employer.) This is a great point. My current job subsidizes some of my equipment like phone bills and it adds up to another ~2k a year. But my job has awful PTO. If I take this paycut I'll really have to shoestring my budget. If something really catastrophic happens (health or something), I know that my family would scrounge up funds to help me. JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2018 22:52
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cut your budget back and see if you can manage living on the new salary for like three months
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Jul 18, 2018 23:01
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Is it worth taking the time to draft a cover letter? I'm applying for senior software developer jobs, typically in the 8-10 years experience range. Right now I'm just sending out the applications sans cover letter, my rationale being that a one-on-one conversation over the phone is more effective if they need more context to my resume. Is this approach efficient or just lazy?
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Jul 19, 2018 00:10
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we throw people's resumes in the trash if they don't provide a cover letter (consulting). it says on the website to send a cover letter and resume so if you can't read, gently caress you.
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Jul 19, 2018 14:43
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:we throw people's resumes in the trash if they don't provide a cover letter (consulting). it says on the website to send a cover letter and resume so if you can't read, gently caress you. Alternatively, some websites don't even give you a way to upload a cover letter, in those cases instead of uploading it as a 2nd resume or whatever I'd probably recommend skipping. If there is no guidance, you should probably include it and it probably shouldn't sound like a cut & paste.
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Jul 19, 2018 15:30
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I think that cover letters are more important for more senior roles.
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Jul 19, 2018 15:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think that cover letters are more important for more senior roles. I like seeing them when hiring to a role that has to do with communication and critical thinking. I mean, writing the letter isn't the most definitive critical thinking activity out there, but when they take enough thought to target the resume I can guess that at least some gears spin well.
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Jul 19, 2018 17:03
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Does it still make sense to put your address on your resume? I'm applying for a job that's in the same city as my entire career history.
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Jul 19, 2018 18:29
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