white sauce posted:

Hahahahaha white women are insane

Condiv posted:

i cannot believe the russians hacked hillary's cyberbrain and made her waste all her money trying to win texas

what won't they do???

Thoguh posted:

It's only worth bringing up again because lol at any narrative that anyone but Clinton is responsible for Donald Trump being president.

Fleetwood posted:

that photo where she's wandered into the tiny apartment and she's afraid of being abducted into whatever the left version of hoste l is, she's not sure if she's still in cyberspace or a poor persons home

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

Tortoiseburger posted:

it's the best photo, because she simultaneously looks lost, and it's why she lost.

docbeard posted:

I didn't realize the voter ID law in Wisconsin was her fault.

(Heh, remember when Obama said he was gonna spend time fighting voter suppression after the election?)

Main Paineframe posted:

remember when Obama completely ignored the big pro-union protests in Wisconsin and the Walker recall attempt?

Crowsbeak posted:

The truth is that the Dems by pretty much allowing CNN and especially MSNBC start claiming poo poo about Trump being a Russian agent destroyed any actual real believability to Russian collusion in the Trump campaign.

Main Paineframe posted:

remember when Obama completely ignored the big pro-union protests in Wisconsin and the Walker recall attempt?

Crowsbeak posted:

I remember how after the DNC Hillary right up till the 9/11 thing like spent over a month almost entirely doing fundraisers in The Hamptons, LA, SF, and New York. Trump was speeding around the country, but she was so sure she had this in the bag. Also I think she was for the most part doing the same thing after Bernie conceded.

Jazerus posted:

“From our schedule to our voter contact to where our organizers spend their time, almost everyone here interacts with his work and their work is influenced by his insights,” Mook said, calling Kriegel’s analyses the campaign’s “invisible guiding hand.”

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Data rasputin robby mook also jealously guarded the outputs from his black box numbers machine and used it as leverage to keep all the other people in abuela's campaign who also wanted to be her chief of staff at bay.

SKULL.GIF posted:

just last week a group of GOP senators, including my senator Ron Johnson, suddenly decided to spend July 4 in Moscow and came back going "Guys Russia is actually really cool"

quote:

3. I've actually had very strong priors against some of the more outrageous claims. I still do. But I don't know how you can process all this information—from Trump's behavior, to the indictments, to the things that no one actually disputes—and not update them.

4. What's the value in consistently being skeptical that the Russians took steps to try to get Trump elected or that the campaign itself encouraged them and made use of them? Why assert that none of this really matters because it couldn't possibly have affected the outcome?

5. If your concern is that it demobilizes opposition, what's the evidence for that? If your concern is that it undermines efforts to make the Dems more progressive, why not adopt @DavidKlion's argument that it *focuses* attention on oligarchic rent-extraction, capital mobility, &c?

6. Let's say that it's likely Mueller won't be able to directly link what we already know to Trump? I guess I can see the concern that this somehow backfires.... but I'm not sure how the GOP base is going to be *more* in the tank for Trump, or how this makes other issues 'go away.'

7. This leaves the fear of "Russophobia." I agree that we should not conclude that Russian efforts to destabilize the United States and the West requires a military response. But these efforts are real. They predate Trump-Russia. They tend to help right-wing movements.

8. So what does that leave? As best I can tell, a desire to 'burn it all down' and a view that if US 'imperialism' is the enemy, than the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's a consistent position. But not, I suggest, one compatible with progressive policy goals.

9. Hence, I end with a question. Absent "liberals don't want change," what's the argument that members of the progressive left who *also* worry about Trump-Russia are suffering from motivated bias or overly strong priors?

10. I think it's more complicated. The US does a lot of things that progressives rightfully oppose (see Yemen, torture during the Bush admin, overly militarized foreign relations, &c) but that's a matter of taking charge of policy, not of 'burning it all down.'

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

https://twitter.com/RobCinos/status/1018013321058967552

SKULL.GIF posted:

just last week a group of GOP senators, including my senator Ron Johnson, suddenly decided to spend July 4 in Moscow and came back going "Guys Russia is actually really cool"

Phone posted:

it's a bunch of real estate deals with oligarchs

like half of the poo poo they popped manafort with was forging loan applications

Phone posted:

it's a bunch of real estate deals with oligarchs

like half of the poo poo they popped manafort with was forging loan applications

uncurable mlady posted:

fwiw it's not entirely unreasonable to think that there's something there to the 'russians got clinton models' line. if you recall the election, a lot of people were very surprised by trump going and having rallies in shithole parts of states that were considered clinton locks.

so either trump's campaign team was a bunch of incredibly savvy political operators who realized she was weak in those areas
or they knew that there was a good reason to go to those areas because someone told them where she was weak

Jazerus posted:

if you're still in such a towering rage against Mother that you feel as though acknowledging russian election criming would be absolving her, you are a huge idiot moron

the russian election criming only worked because she was a steaming pile of poo poo as a candidate who was predictable, hackable, and lazy as gently caress, but it still happened

Condiv posted:

i think the biggest takeaway is maybe don't delegate your political strategy to a machine

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Another way is making deals with Russian intelligence, I guess.

Nonsense posted:

i don't blame people being delusional about the russia stuff, because of where this leads to in the end, and people don't want to imagine it.

Nonsense posted:

Clinton did nothing for critical months before her October surprise.

SKULL.GIF posted:

Crimea

Phone posted:

9/11/2016 never 4get

Corky Romanovsky posted:

isn't as simple as the media portrays. Many times they had referendums regarding secession/incorporation into Russia. The last one's results were not out of line with previous. You may not have seen much recently, so it is understandable if you don't recognize it, democracy is pretty wild.

Corky Romanovsky posted:

isn't as simple as the media portrays. Many times they had referendums regarding secession/incorporation into Russia. The last one's results were not out of line with previous. You may not have seen much recently, so it is understandable if you don't recognize it, democracy is pretty wild.

quote:

Contrary to what some writers on the left have argued, the American public is legitimately interested in the Trump-Russia scandal and isn’t going to stop paying attention.